Best Unique Units, a discussion and Poll

[DWilson]

I'm curious how the two new units would perform here.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Other than being fantastic barb-busters that synergize well with Sumeria's UA, I'm not sure I understand the War Cart hype. Against AIs on King and above its very difficult to build enough of them fast enough to overrun a civ before they fall behind on the power curve, at which point you've neglected other important areas of your economy. I can see using them to take periphrial cities or CSs, but not for getting the knockout punch that chariot or axe rushes in civ 4 could pull off. Maybe someone will fill me in here.

If you value Heavy Chariots or Horsemen, then you'll definitely value War-Carts. Horsemen has 5 more Combat Strength and 1 more movement (in general). However, they come around 3 techs later, cost 25 more production (an almost 50% increase from War-Carts) and still have a weakness to Spearmen (in case those get buffed).

In addition to this, War-Carts upgrade to Knights, which are the dominant units in the Medieval Age (excluding UUs).

Lastly, on Emperor and above, the majority of your "economy" are military units used to conquer neighbors anyway, so why not use a superior unit? With a Ram or Tower, they can surely overrun your first neighbor at the very least.

 

[gettingfat]

Other than being fantastic barb-busters that synergize well with Sumeria's UA, I'm not sure I understand the War Cart hype. Against AIs on King and above its very difficult to build enough of them fast enough to overrun a civ before they fall behind on the power curve, at which point you've neglected other important areas of your economy. I can see using them to take periphrial cities or CSs, but not for getting the knockout punch that chariot or axe rushes in civ 4 could pull off. Maybe someone will fill me in here.

War-carts actually work very well at high difficulty levels. The biggest obstacle against early rush is not able to find and attack your neighbors early enough. You can build war-carts from turn 1. They are quick so you can find your closest neighbor and CS very quickly. They are strong so 3 of them are often enough to take early cities. Combining with the barb camp bonus and ease of pillaging, you will quickly get enough cash to buy a worker (or simply steal one and use the cash to buy more war-carts to provide reinforcement to the rush) to trigger the craftsmanship, and beeline military tradition to get that 100% production card, which means more war-carts spamming. To play Sumerian well you really need to have a fully committed warlike mentality and use wars (against civs, CS and barb camps) to sustain your early economy.

 

[TheRealHellBlazer]

Worst unit I have faced in MP is the Redcoats, was attacked with them in industrial era and some of them had up to 93 strength. I mean how do you deal with near mech infantry strength units in industrial era.

 

[Siptah]

Worst unit I have faced in MP is the Redcoats, was attacked with them in industrial era and some of them had up to 93 strength. I mean how do you deal with near mech infantry strength units in industrial era.

A bonus for later UUs that often gets neglected is that you can form corps and armies out of them, making the advantage of them even stronger. Of course, you are missing out on a UU at the time when conquering is easier/more rewarding. I haven't really checked this out, but I guess Cossack corps and Garde Imperiale corps are almost unstoppable as well. And Digger armies fighting in neutral or enemy territory... do they get more bonuses as an army?

 

[MantaRevan]

War-carts actually work very well at high difficulty levels. The biggest obstacle against early rush is not able to find and attack your neighbors early enough. You can build war-carts from turn 1. They are quick so you can find your closest neighbor and CS very quickly. They are strong so 3 of them are often enough to take early cities. Combining with the barb camp bonus and ease of pillaging, you will quickly get enough cash to buy a worker (or simply steal one and use the cash to buy more war-carts to provide reinforcement to the rush) to trigger the craftsmanship, and beeline military tradition to get that 100% production card, which means more war-carts spamming. To play Sumerian well you really need to have a fully committed warlike mentality and use wars (against civs, CS and barb camps) to sustain your early economy.

How many do you usually build before launching the attack? I have, in the past, gone with 4-6 war carts.

 

[gettingfat]

How many do you usually build before launching the attack? I have, in the past, gone with 4-6 war carts.

If early enough, usually 4. Sometimes even 3 if the city is left unguarded. The good things about war-carts is you can launch surprise attack more easily, and it doesn't take too long for the reinforcement to come.

 

[Wingednosering]

Top 3 would be Mamluks > War Cart > Redcoats.

Redcoats are easily the best snowballing unit, specifically the way Victoria gets them for free. War Carts are great for about the first 40-50 turns and then they drop off. I don't think they're good enough to outright replace Archers for ancient/classical offense.

Mamluks are just another level. A swarm of them can take cities with no support, archers or siege units. Once one of them gets injured enough, it can fortify and tank incoming ranged attacks (since lower health units of the same type have priority to be targeted). Then all of your other Mamluks can just smash themselves against the enemy walls. They heal every turn, so they basically go back to full after a direct city assault. It's also worth noting that they're still superior over Cavalry which are a whole era later. They stay relevant for a long time.

High movement, constant healing and decent damage for the era. There is no counter to them whatsoever aside from focusing them down one by one with three or more (ranged) units, which can still go badly in some situations. AIs will never focus fire effectively enough, making them incredibly overpowered in SP.

 

[Chibisuke]

Its hard to argue against war cart being best. They are nearly unstoppable at the beginning if played correctly. However, I think number 2 is widely open to individual preference.

I have tried out most of the UU. Eagle warrior has always been fun and I have gained a ton of workers using them. They make Aztec economy pretty simple at the beginning. Just build a bunch of them and go to war, you'll get enough workers to improve all your tiles.

At this point though, I am enjoying Digger slightly more than I liked Eagle Warrior. The Digger is just OP at the time it becomes available. When I create a Digger corps or army in Deity late game, that unit by itself can often take a city in one to two turns with a battering ram. There are no comparable units that can oppose them at that point in the game when fighting offensive wars, and the AI takes forever to get mech infantry. Digger has a similar feeling of being unstoppable. Yea people claim that late game doesn't matter, but I think it does. If I can win in 30 less turns due to having amazing late game units I will be happy for that.

 

[Siptah]

At this point though, I am enjoying Digger slightly more than I liked Eagle Warrior. The Digger is just OP at the time it becomes available. When I create a Digger corps or army in Deity late game, that unit by itself can often take a city in one to two turns with a battering ram. There are no comparable units that can oppose them at that point in the game when fighting offensive wars, and the AI takes forever to get mech infantry. Digger has a similar feeling of being unstoppable. Yea people claim that late game doesn't matter, but I think it does. If I can win in 30 less turns due to having amazing late game units I will be happy for that.

End game wars can matter. I often play rather peaceful through the game, and if I see that I'm going to loose to a culture or science victory, I sometimes have to attack an AI in order to not lose. Of course, spies can help as well. But the late game UUs can shine in such a case for me. Having the ability to form armies makes them even better than non UU units. I prefer not to conquer to much cities in the later stages due to keeping alliances and friendships however. So I try to sabotage my enemy with and pillaging. On island plates, it's one of the rare situations in which the german u-boat can shine: there's a higher chance for districts being on the coast and pillage able, while your u-boat gets extra strength fighting in these tiles. Haven't really tried out the digger though. But I can imagine it being quite good here as well. If I'm playing a domination game however, I still think that UUs in medieval time and before are generally the most useful. This may change when the AI is able to put you in a kind of military stalemate in the late game and a UU might bring the change. But so far, once you get through the enemy forces (and it seems always possible), you are definitely though and you kind of won.

 

[Mrdarklight]

I was surprised to find that Legions were considered to be "not as good" now. I'm playing a game, and as usual, Legions are like the tanks of the ancient world. Use them with battering rams and they murder enemy cities. The legion often one-shots enemy city walls, and in the process loses less than 10% of its HP.

 

[MaximusPlatypus]

Added the new Macedon and Persia units, votes can be changed at any time.

 

[Metecury]

I am surprised to see the conquistador so low on the list, it really enables you to dominate the mid game and helps you in achieving both the religious and military victory.

 

[Siptah]

I am surprised to see the conquistador so low on the list, it really enables you to dominate the mid game and helps you in achieving both the religious and military victory.

It is biased by being a Spanish unit. It sure is an awesome unit, but since many people don't play Spain or consider it generally weak... You don't even need an own religion for the conquistador to be awesome, you just need some missionaries. Of course, it is usually most effective when you have a religion that you don't spread (except through conquering cities ;-).
Before release, I always thought that it would be the best UU in the game. This changed after playing, but I still think it is under valued.

 

[Arent11]

Can someone explain why they voted for saka horse archers? I mean, I like Scythia, but not saka horse archers.

 

[Siptah]

Can someone explain why they voted for saka horse archers? I mean, I like Scythia, but not saka horse archers.

Probably because you train two for the price of one. I don't think anyone really thinks of them as strong units - but I'm happy to read a different opinion from someone. Once on the field, the Maryannu Chariot Archer is a way better unit - but it costs more than one pack of Saka Horse Archers. For me, the Chariot Archer is still the better unit.

 

[Victoria]

I love the way I am way behind in tech but good in culture and redcoats come around. I dump 3 settlers and forge the 3 redcoats into an army and suddenly all my cities are damn hard to take.

 

[hongyu20]

I was surprised to find that Legions were considered to be "not as good" now. I'm playing a game, and as usual, Legions are like the tanks of the ancient world. Use them with battering rams and they murder enemy cities. The legion often one-shots enemy city walls, and in the process loses less than 10% of its HP.

The Legions not being considered that good is due to the fact that in the Australian Summer Patch , they buffed swordsmen to 40 combat strength while the Legion 's original 40 combat strength was not changed at all . Now that swordsmen are nerfed to 36 I think Legions are much more viable.

 

[Bro]

I'd say my favourite is the Viking Longship. Those things just murder early coastal cities, can capture settlers and builders and raid the coast. Also the 4 movement means they can pillage and move/attack at the same turn.

 

[MaximusPlatypus]

Not 1 vote for the P-51

Seeing as how late it is and how irrelevant air units are.

I revoted after trying the new units from Persia and Macedon.

I think almost everyone agrees on Eagles, Warcarts, Mamluks, Legions, and Cossacks (well, maybe some consider Cossacks too late) everyone has covered those comments.

others worth considering:

Minas Garaes: This thing is ridiculously powerful and early. Maybe Brazil turtles early and sets up their culture game, when these come online any coastal cities are toast. You only need like 1 or 2 of them.

Redcoat: Englands snowball colonies are silky-smooth with this powerful off-continent unit. No nitre? no problem

Winged Hussar: most powerful unit of the Medieval era. Expensive, but powerful and unlocked by Mercenaries, which you are going to shoot for anyway to get the 50% off unit upgrade card. Underrated ability against human players to break choke-points with the knock-back ability (sometimes they knock a unit into a water tile, where your ranged or naval units can finish them easily)

Hetairoi: the synergy of them with the unique barracks is quite good; you get science when you build them, you don't need horses, they get General points on kills, there's almost no reason as Alex not to rush Stirrups

Sea Dogs: might not make some peoples' lists due to situational. Adds to Vicky's mid-game snowballing, you can build 2 of them and have almost all the navy you need for the rest of the game. Vicky will have a ton of Admirals around as it is, make yourself an early Sea Dog fleet and they are the terror of the seas. the invisibility can lead to some unique tactics