Best Use of SGL?

[Snarkhunter]

Sorry for no save--will try to post later. Meanwhile, general strategy question:

I'm Chinese, warlord level, small map, 113 turns into the game. No one has made a GW yet. I picked up philosophy about 10 turns ago or so & got an SGL as well as Republic as a nice bonus Question then becomes, what to do with him? I only get an SGL about every 4th game (this is only game 11 for me), so I don't have much experience & don't want to waste him. Do I: build an AA GW (if so, which one?); build the Forbidden Palace; build an army; hold out for a later age GW (again, which would you pick)?

I lean towards building the FP or maybe waiting for a GW but obviously am not sure. I've got about 11 cities now with a couple of settlers about to hatch. I'm sitting on the crossbar of a "T" shaped continent; Egypt and Persia are crammed into the stem. One half of the cross is basically jungle & I seem to have just about any lux/strat resource that this continent offers (although parts of Persia/Egypt are foggy so who knows?) If I build the FP, do I stick it on part of the crossbar, which can take a bit of expansion still, or on the stem, since sooner or later Egypsia has to fall & thus I'll be expanding that way? Or--wild thought--do I try to sneak a foothold onto the other continents (Byzantines, Babylonians, & Vikings & don't know much about the area, except the coasts seem pretty much claimed) & build it there?

Second question: timing of an early rush. Is it already too late to just knock one of the 2 civs to the south of me away & I should build some more first? I've got about 11-13 swords & 7 archers that could go; 4 cats, but the terrain probably won't let them through. Everything else has been building workers/settlers/boats. My capital can turn out a sword every 3 turns, but that is just about all that is building military at the moment. I'm about 2 techs away from MA (so about 4 techs away from getting Riders). Enemy cities are a bit far from my border, in any case, so will take a while to reach. Border is only 3 tiles wide & I control it, so I can sit indefinitely, if still expanding through the cross bar is the better idea.

General suggestions (until I get a sav posted)?

 

[Aabraxan]

As to the SGL, you should go ahead and use him for a Great Wonder. Which one you use him for depends on what's available and what you need. Several considerations: (1) As long as you hold him, you cannot get an MGL; (2) SGLs can't build armies; (3) MGLs can be used to rush the FP, should you happen to get an MGL, but MGLs cannot be used to rush Great Wonders.

As to the military question, hard to say without seeing a save or screenshot (preferably a save).

 

[Snarkhunter]

As to the SGL, you should go ahead and use him for a Great Wonder. Which one you use him for depends on what's available and what you need. Several considerations: (1) As long as you hold him, you cannot get an MGL; (2) SGLs can't build armies; (3) MGLs can be used to rush the FP, should you happen to get an MGL, but MGLs cannot be used to rush Great Wonders.

As to the military question, hard to say without seeing a save or screenshot (preferably a save).

Thanx, that's helpful. *All* GWs are available right now--not sure which would be most useful to me. Lean towards something that helps every city, ie, Pyramids or ToA or some such, but could also go with GLighthouse, I suppose. Don't think GLibrary would be of much use, I'm ahead on the tech tree right now.

Of course, I could always replay the game & choose something different each time I did, just to see what helps/doesn't do much. . .

 

[Theryman]

The Pyramid is by far my favorite AA wonder, and the only one would I would actually even consider possibly maybe perhaps trying to build. Only if I am on a big continent, though. A archipelago makes it almost worthless.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Welcome to Civilization! I recommend the Pyramids, but then I need to know what victory type do you want? Culture, Spaceship, Diplo or Conquest? Culture, do ToA. Conquest, wait for Sun Tzu's or Leo(though the GLH lets you cross sea squares, which would allow overseas conquest early). Anything else, Pyramids.

 

[TruePurple]

SGL prevent MGL?

Pyramid rushes are great. Besides it meaning free granaries when granaries are most useful. Getting it really early means nice tourist money latter on. Place it in a town with lots of uncorrupted commerce (then build the research doubling wonders there latter) You could choose a town with a bit of corruption but lots of bonus commerce tiles. Just make sure to build your forbidden palace there latter.

Sun Tzus or leos are great but some distance still. I'd still go with the piramide. Rushing it early is just priceless. not to mention double culture from it pretty quick. Useful no matter what victory your looking for.

 

[Aabraxan]

Yes, having an SGL does prevent you from getting an MGL (I'm pretty sure).

If all GWs are available, I'd say Pyramids. No matter what your victory condition, free granaries in all of your continental cities is a huge boost.

 

[Othniel]

Yes, having an SGL does prevent you from getting an MGL (I'm pretty sure).

I can confirm that it does indeed prevent an MGL. The reverse is not true though. You can still get an SGL when you already have an MGL.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I would build the Pyramids.

 

[civverguy]

If you still have some room to expand, build the Pyramids. If not, save him for later.

 

[Mursi lives]

If you got ivoiry you may want to try Statue of Zeus. Otherwise yes, pyramids and plenty of workers to clear the jungle.
You get a SGL every 4 games? You are lucky. I played dozens of games and NEVER got a single one .

 

[TruePurple]

LOL, never waste SGL on statue of zeus. Its cheap and due to its ivory requirements you can take your time building it.

Mursi, you need to pick techs the AI isn't researching and stay ahead of the tech. Also helps to be scientific. Maybe he often plays scientific nations.

 

[Aabraxan]

. . . . If not, save him for later.

Civverguy, I've got to disagree with this last part. Remember: No MGLs until the SGL is burned.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

SGL's help, but not that much. 1 every 4 games? A non-scientific civ should get 1 SGL for every 33 techs they are the first to research, a scientific one should get 1 for every 20 techs. That makes it seem like you are the first to research only 8 techs in your games!!

 

[Mursi lives]

I know Soz is cheap, but it's by far the most usefull GW. On a small map it is the 'I won the game' wonder.

due to its ivory requirements you can take your time building it.

That's often true, not always. And rushing an expensive and AI-wanted GW like pyramids may cause several other GW completions next turn.

Mursi, you need to pick techs the AI isn't researching and stay ahead of the tech. Also helps to be scientific. Maybe he often plays scientific nations.

Well, in that game, he is playing China, a non-sci civ and he didnt discovered many techs first, since he still in AA.
It is true that I rarely play sci civs, and that I wait the modern era to become the tech leader (I play DG level) but still it's hundreds of first discovered techs and I never got a SGL

Btw, Can the TOE or philo techs generate a SGL?

 

[TruePurple]

rushing an expensive and AI-wanted GW like pyramids may cause several other GW completions next turn.

Whats your point?

Yes as far as I know. Its just that you were first to the tech, it doesn't matter how you got it(same with free area tech of scientific AFAIK) How certain are you that you were first with all of those hundreds of techs? Even if your first for the contacts you know...

 

[Bartleby]

Btw, Can the TOE or philo techs generate a SGL?

I've seen a screenshot seomewhere on CFC in which someone got an SGL for Philosphy and Republic.

I've had one for my free tech as a scientific civ, too.

Imagine, for example, playing as a Scientific civ and finishing ToE the same turn you research Flight to complete the IA; you could conceivably get an SGL for Flight, one for your free tech, one one each for your two free techs! That would preclude gifting any scientific civs during the Pig Picture, though, and isn't worth the gamble.

 

[RFHolloway]

Another vote for pyramids here, will serve you well into the late game if you adopt a govenment that allows population rushing.

 

[Snarkhunter]

I peeked at this thread when I got home & opted for Pyramids (selling off the 3 existing granaries I had first!). Waited around a few turns, then started knocking Egypt off; Persia is running around in the chaos with a bunch of settlers looking for openings, so I may just segue into cleaning their clocks as well. I no longer have the crossbar to myself, but have some pretty good blocks in place, will fill in the gaps along the coast ASAP. I deferred going to Republic until I settle with Egypsia, as I wasn't sure how best to manage the unit costs--taking/building a bunch more cities seemed like a good start, though--but it, too, is high on the agenda.

As for VC, I'm going for first available victory, domination almost certainly. I've got another copy of this map with different civs; if I can handle that, I'll start working on handling other types of VC's.

Ok, haven't uploaded savs before, let's see if this works. . . . Seems to have done so. the savs are marked with turn numbers in the file names--turn 54 was roughly where I shelved the other copy of this map. Turn 137 was where I knocked off last night. for some reason, the Vikings decided to declare war & attack the little island outpost I had built in the center of the map. Bizarre, I found it.

 

[Delphi456]

1. Lux slider is at 10%. Why? Set it to 0 and stop wasting money
2. Science slider can be dropped from 70% to 30% and still be at "1 turn left"
3. Your capital is not growing!!! Get rid of that entertainer!!
4. All cities making Wealth should switch to making workers to add back into cities so when you switch to Republic you won't be financially crushed.
5. Switch to Republic asap.
6. Better to keep expanding until you run out of room before starting a war. You've still got room NE of your capital.