Best wonder?

[A+ombomb]

So there was a post about the worst wonder, but what does everyone feel about the best wonder? My vote is going for michaelangelo's chapel. It loses its appeal later in the game, but for the moment you can get it (quite early if you direct your research directly to it), it immediately eliminates all disorder problems! Maybe we should have a vote.

 

[A+ombomb]

I intentionally left out later wonders since the game is usually foregone by the time they become available, and they have less turns to be used.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I added Marco Polo to the list since I'm sure quite afew GOTM players go for that quickly.

Early on, it is a very important wonder, so it will get my vote as well.

 

[A+ombomb]

I saw quite a few players mention that they like the embassy. I can see how being in the middle of negotiations can be good in some ways, but it rarely helps you tech up if you have a very targeted tech path (comps just whore techs, they never really go down a path). It seems to me that early on, targeted tech paths are the best way to go. These are the techs I target:

monarchy -> trade -> monotheism -> invention -> leadership
or
monarchy -> monotheism -> trade -> astronomy -> university

The first I would choose for maps where I have limited expansion on my first island.
Second is for when there is massive land to expand to and/or lots of civs to deal with on this large island (crusaders fast are insanely powerful).

Getting back to the point, the embassy seems like it wouldn't really help you techwise, and I don't see any other good merits for it. The chapel, on the other hand, allows you to continue with a nonstop expansion, as you won't need to worry about those pesky red guys showing up from overexpanding. Its especially effective in combo with the gardens. I have a particular deity game where I managed to muster up 5.5million population strung over about 50 cities by 1ad, only possible due to the chapel/garden combo stifling the anger.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Marco Polo Emabssy (MPE) is very useful for knowing where the AI civs are. Knowing that can help you know where to expand and where to send trade caravans. Swapping techs is almost a side benefit of the Wonder.

 

[A+ombomb]

I see. I play a different kind of game - I don't really care where they are. I just get as huge as possible as quickly as possible and kill off comps/trade with comps as they get in my way. I usually try to set up a huge trade city of my own and simply trade with myself rather than trading with the enemy - it keeps their tech abilities to the min (especially since the computer never sets his rates quite right, and they tend to play the game like bill gates would (mass money) and never spend it towards worthwhile things). Also I often times get more trade trading with myself, since I can manipulate the numbers by putting more workers on high trade squares on both sides.

 

[mangor420]

if playing a human magellans is best against the computer leos is best.

 

[Old n Slow]

I opted for other.

Not because I want to be difficult, but because the game is so flexible, I don't think that any one wonder is soooo great to outweigh the others all the time. Clearly Mike's has a lot of value -- but it can be substituted via $$ whereas JSB has no such substitute. Also, Mike's has no place with an OCC game.

Similarly, in a high level (D+n -- difficult to complete early on) late game, the UN (with Andu's emisary ploy) allows a military democracy better capability to continue the campaign.

On the other hand, with a small board & ICS, HG can be valuable at Diety level, perhaps allowing a good game with no other wonders ever getting into play -- (I have yet to fully explore this, I'm just trusting on Smash's results -- which do speak rather well IMHO.)

 

[A+ombomb]

Mich's chapel can't be substituted with cash so easily. When you are a small civ only just starting out, building cathedrals at all isn't even viable - its just too many resources. Four removed drones from a newly built city isn't just saved money, its boosting how quickly that new city is a meaningful component of your civ. I also feel the hanging gardens are extremely powerful in deity, but the hanging gardens are not nearly as potent as mich's chapels, just buildable sooner.

 

[Old n Slow]

Generally I agree with your thoughts, but different circumstances should highlight my comments:

If we were constrained to build one and only one wonder (and raze the captured cities with other wonders) I think that Mike's would be the one to have -- more "productive" than JSB, early enough to be a factor (compared to Hoover & UN) for most of the games that we're discussing.

For the early conquerers, HG, Marco's, LH & Sun Tsu seem to top their lists & they seem to do well. OCC is a special variant and has its own select set of choices.

For the truly inexperienced, challenged at prince level, I'd recommend the Pyramids, GL & Leo's to help provide an edge & safety.

Then of course, there are those diety players looking for a challenge & opt to not build ANY wonders...

 

[SideshowBob]

I have to say I find Marco Polo's to be the best at least in the early game. Once you have it you can contact even distant civs, and trade techs, get allies, request gifts and so on. I didn't get Marco's in GOTM36 before i conquered the city that had it and it set my game back A LOT!

OK, Sun Tzu's is great also, but as I'm not so skilled at conquest I have less use for it. On the other hand I always end up at war so maybe I should start training serious conquest tactics?

 

[Achinz]

Depends on the style of game played:
Quick Bloodlust - Sun Tzu's
Conquest on large map (with restarts) - Leo's
ICS - HG
ELG/OCC - Copernicus (marginally)

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Achinz
ELG/OCC - Copernicus (marginally)

I think you could make an argument that Apollo is most valuable for these!!!

 

[Achinz]

Originally posted by TimTheEnchanter

I think you could make an argument that Apollo is most valuable for these!!!

Obviously hence the "marginally"

Although, is "essential" = "best"

Edit: no :grin: smiley?
Edit2: trying DoM's hint!
Edit3: 3rd time lucky - thanks DoM for the brushup on emoticons.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

?

 

[Achinz]

So what's the editor syntax for <img src="images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt=""> ?

Obviously not :biggrin:

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

'Colon', 'Capital D'

:D

If you look at the left side of where you can post at the bottom of the page there is a link that says 'Get Emoticons' Click that to see them all.

 

[Achinz]

Thanks - just couldn't remember - had used it at Apolyton too!