Beta UHV discussion
- Thread starter sedna17
- Start date
3Miro
Deity
Yes, Cordoba spawns quite a few turns after the Plague. Only France and Byzantium (and the Pope and the Indies) get affected by the first Plague.
Arabia may spawn while the Plague is still going, but every spawning civ has a few turns of Plague immunity right after spawn. By the time Bulgaria spawns, the Plagues is over.
3Miro
Deity
You don't have the time to grow your cities like Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria. Those cities start large and unhealthy and then get the Plague. France may get hit by the plague, but usually doesn't.
dragodon64
Noble
Have the number of plagues been updated since the earlier betas? I only remember Justinian's plague and the Black Death.
3Miro
Deity
There are 5 plagues in the mod. There is a bit of a gap between Justinian's plague and the Black Death, but then you get a plague every 150 - 250 years.
Science Rules
Prince
That first plague is supposed to represent Justinian's plague? Then why does it happen in the early 7th century instead of the late 6th century?
3Miro
Deity
The date is semi-random. It will happen within 10 - 20 turns from the correct historic date.
Science Rules
Prince
OK, I must just have bad luck in all my Byzantine games.
BTW, I just finished a game with Spain (it was a blast!). However, for me the 3rd UHV was a bit too trivial. Bulgaria founded Protestantism, but never converted. There were no Protestant countries until the Dutch spawn. I camped a SoD outside Holland and crushed the Dutch immediately before winning. Perhaps the threshold could be raised to 5 cities captured and the check-in date extended until 1648 (treaty of Westphalia)?
BTW, I just finished a game with Spain (it was a blast!). However, for me the 3rd UHV was a bit too trivial. Bulgaria founded Protestantism, but never converted. There were no Protestant countries until the Dutch spawn. I camped a SoD outside Holland and crushed the Dutch immediately before winning. Perhaps the threshold could be raised to 5 cities captured and the check-in date extended until 1648 (treaty of Westphalia)?
AbsintheRed
Deity
Westphalia sounds nice
dragodon64
Noble
The Treaty of Westphalia makes a lot of sense as the date for a Catholicism vs. Protestantism, but conquering Protestant cities feels a little strange to me.
Something like Ensure 50% of the world (map) is Catholic or ensure that there are no Protestant states might be better. Although, I rarely play beyond 1500, so I don't really know if 50% is too high or not.
What do other people think?
Something like Ensure 50% of the world (map) is Catholic or ensure that there are no Protestant states might be better. Although, I rarely play beyond 1500, so I don't really know if 50% is too high or not.
What do other people think?
Science Rules
Prince
Why not? This UHV was originally supposed to represent the Spanish Armada, but it easily fits the 80 years war as well.
dragodon64
Noble
I know that, and it does make a fair bit of sense, but I've found myself founding Protestantism in the 15th century, just to make sure I have enough time to get all the cities, which feels a bit wrong to me.
If you've played SoI, I have the same opinion about Antioch's open borders goal. The easiest way to accomplish it is by doing something really unrealistic (converting to Islam).
Although, now that I think about it, pushing it back to 1648 would definitely give more than enough time to conquer a few Protestant cities.
If you've played SoI, I have the same opinion about Antioch's open borders goal. The easiest way to accomplish it is by doing something really unrealistic (converting to Islam).
Although, now that I think about it, pushing it back to 1648 would definitely give more than enough time to conquer a few Protestant cities.
Imo the Dutch UHV is a bit too easy atm.
Colony building usually starts around the time of the Dutch spawn so they actually have a good chance to build allot more colonies than just the 4 required and early ones too like Hispanola or Panama.
And settling 5 Great Merchants in Amsterdam by 1750... I didn't save last time I played but I think I had them settled before 1700 and had used 1 to found Augsburg Families and a couple of great scientists (royal academy and settled). There might even have been a Great Artist in there too.
But all this does require that cities do flip to you, could still be possible even without but I usually start over if that's the case(i.e Groningen razed and no Antwerpen founded). And if say France declared war on turn 5, you're screwed..(which does tend to happen at times)
And even if DOW happens upon flip.. those 2 Dutch Grenadiers or so don't really make much of a difference.
The only hard thing about playing the Netherlands is staying out of trouble with your neighbors or defending yourself if you do get attacked.
In my last game with Portugal Spain already controlled all of Iberia when Portugal spawned but they weren't really any competition when it comes to colonies (they only build Aztec and Inca conquest, I built everything else)(I had ignored professional army).
I'm not saying Portugal is too easy, if Cordoba is still sticking around(which is usually the case) you might have a hard time getting anything done. It's just that the colonial civs start colony building about 100 years too late. Which gives late spawners like the Netherlands or Sweden somewhat of an advantage, partially they are even ahead techwise.
Edit:
I had also previously asked about the Portuguese UHV part about settling North Africa(already answered thanks to 3miro)
I'm not sure if I'm the only one that had a problem with understanding the UHV but I think it could be rephrased to be less confusing.
Currently:
Settle 3 cities on the Azores and Canaries and 2 in Morocco, Tetouan and Oran
Suggestion:
Settle 3 cities on the Azores or Canaries and 2 in Morocco, Tetouan or Oran
Colony building usually starts around the time of the Dutch spawn so they actually have a good chance to build allot more colonies than just the 4 required and early ones too like Hispanola or Panama.
And settling 5 Great Merchants in Amsterdam by 1750... I didn't save last time I played but I think I had them settled before 1700 and had used 1 to found Augsburg Families and a couple of great scientists (royal academy and settled). There might even have been a Great Artist in there too.
But all this does require that cities do flip to you, could still be possible even without but I usually start over if that's the case(i.e Groningen razed and no Antwerpen founded). And if say France declared war on turn 5, you're screwed..(which does tend to happen at times)
And even if DOW happens upon flip.. those 2 Dutch Grenadiers or so don't really make much of a difference.
The only hard thing about playing the Netherlands is staying out of trouble with your neighbors or defending yourself if you do get attacked.
In my last game with Portugal Spain already controlled all of Iberia when Portugal spawned but they weren't really any competition when it comes to colonies (they only build Aztec and Inca conquest, I built everything else)(I had ignored professional army).
I'm not saying Portugal is too easy, if Cordoba is still sticking around(which is usually the case) you might have a hard time getting anything done. It's just that the colonial civs start colony building about 100 years too late. Which gives late spawners like the Netherlands or Sweden somewhat of an advantage, partially they are even ahead techwise.
Edit:
I had also previously asked about the Portuguese UHV part about settling North Africa(already answered thanks to 3miro)
I'm not sure if I'm the only one that had a problem with understanding the UHV but I think it could be rephrased to be less confusing.
Currently:
Settle 3 cities on the Azores and Canaries and 2 in Morocco, Tetouan and Oran
Suggestion:
Settle 3 cities on the Azores or Canaries and 2 in Morocco, Tetouan or Oran
3Miro
Deity
At one point the Dutch were hopeless and I gave them a bunch of buffs. Then everyone else got nerfed (especially with the tech) and I guess the Dutch got too easy. I will nerf them a bit.
Duffy, do you think you can do the 5 merchants AND build the Amsterdam Beurs by 1750 or something similar?
I also don't like the Open Borders UHV, it depends too much on other nations religion and survival, there has to be something more appropriate. I will try to ask merijn_v1 when he comes back.
Duffy, do you think you can do the 5 merchants AND build the Amsterdam Beurs by 1750 or something similar?
I also don't like the Open Borders UHV, it depends too much on other nations religion and survival, there has to be something more appropriate. I will try to ask merijn_v1 when he comes back.
The Merchants shouldn't be a problem, the Amsterdam Beurs depends on how the dynamic tech rate works out for the required tech(Economics?) but I also think it's possible. I'll test it.
And about the UHV.
idea 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_III_of_England#Invasion_of_England
extremely hard to do and the whole thing was kind of 'short-lived' iirc
idea 2: something about building xy amount of ships? (not really much use for them though..)
or have the highest GDP in Europe by say 1700? (thinking demographics screen)
Spoiler :
idea 3: control xy amount of spices, they did have a monopoly on that(at least pepper and cinnamon?). (preferrably through colonies)
ideas 1 and 2 would imo currently be impossible though, not with the unit building cost the dutch currently have. not sure about the GDP part
merijn_v1
Black Belt
I think a more Merchant-orientated one is more appropriate.
Most of the ships were merchant ships that transported spices and other exotic stuff from the colonies to Europe. And because you don't need ships to transport the goods from your colonies, I don't think this UHV is good.
But the big merchant fleed can be presented by this:
Have the highest amount of resources import & export in X AD.
Or another ship orientated UHV:
Sink X ships of Western European Countries
This represents Michiel de Ruyter.
I think this one is almost the same as the colony build UHV. The only difference is that you have to build specific colonies, instead of just 4 random colonies.
Spoiler :
3Miro
Deity
Conquest of a superpower is out of the question, regardless of how much the AI sux, the Dutch cannot conquer England.
With a few exceptions, ships are not very useful and a large fleet would be a waste.
Import/Exports is determined by the number of cities that you have, a 3 - 4 cities Dutch nation would never be able to beat 12 cities France even with the Dutch UP. I may be wrong about the Exports, but I think this is how it works. Actually, Import/Export UHV is best represented by lots of OB.
Making a special naval caravan Unit solely for the purpose of Dutch UHV ... I will think about that.
How realistic is to ask to have the most gold before the end. We can move the Amsterdam Beurs to an earlier tech and with the settled Merchants, the Dutch may be able to get on top.
With a few exceptions, ships are not very useful and a large fleet would be a waste.
Import/Exports is determined by the number of cities that you have, a 3 - 4 cities Dutch nation would never be able to beat 12 cities France even with the Dutch UP. I may be wrong about the Exports, but I think this is how it works. Actually, Import/Export UHV is best represented by lots of OB.
Making a special naval caravan Unit solely for the purpose of Dutch UHV ... I will think about that.
How realistic is to ask to have the most gold before the end. We can move the Amsterdam Beurs to an earlier tech and with the settled Merchants, the Dutch may be able to get on top.
Opera
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2008
- Messages
- 4,643
Actually, if we do go for the caravan-y merchants, what about the UHV being "gain X gold through trade missions"? That means you gotta have open borders and churn out enough of them. Great Merchants would be able to grant progress on that one too but since they're require for another one, they probably shouldn't be used.
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