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Beta Units Resources and Buildings

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Medieval: Conquests' started by drjest2000, Jul 28, 2013.

  1. drjest2000

    drjest2000 Chieftain

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    As promised here are the building recolors for two levels of a clay production building,. I figured 2 levels would be all that was needed, like the Butcher-related buildings.



    I haven't injected them into the game yet, but they are just recolors of the Fur-trader's building with some props added from the Civ4 Workshop. I altered the UVMap, but otherwise they are unaltered from the items in Mare Nostrum.

    The clay bonus is based on red clay for aesthetic reasons (the other colors look like piles of poo). I will get some in game shots on my next venture into the game.



    IN GAME SHOT:

    NOTE: I have it set up as a clone of the M:C Stone bonus for the time being

    I'm still undecided on the units, but I rather like these two from Mare Nostrum's units folder:



    I haven't made the icons or the unit art for raw clay or finished pottery yet because I want to make sure I'm moving in the right direction before committing the time.
     

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  2. drjest2000

    drjest2000 Chieftain

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    Not sure which Civ 4 mod I got the original model from, but I vaguely recall it being an African civ and the original building was a slave port or something like that. My thanks to whoever made the original mesh.

    But I recolored it and liked it better as a Roman Watch Tower, although I can see it being used for many other things...

     

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  3. drjest2000

    drjest2000 Chieftain

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    I added a 3D LH for the Barbarian Leader in my install of M:C just to do it, it's just a recolour of Charle88's The Emperor/Darth Sidious (LINK) - so my thanks to him.

    Spoiler :


    Like I said, it's just a simple recolor, nothing fancy. It was the only hooded LH I could find in the downloads, and I tried to keep it in the style of the original icon -- all dark and dreadful
     

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  4. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

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    Buildings look good and the Pit Worker. Still pondering the potter:) Love the tower though. I never like the one I had in the mod. And I was planning on removing the "Barbarian" from the list of LeaderHeads sense it is not really a Leader but just a static player used to control animals and bandits. He could eventually become an NPC bandit lord or Robber Baron however and create a player just for the animals to separate the two. Have you worked the potter into the City Screen yet? That's usually one of the biggest chores.
     
  5. drjest2000

    drjest2000 Chieftain

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    I'm still working out how the city interface works. I wanted to add a 3rd level to the warehouse, a two-story version or something, but that fell apart on the city screen. I've figured out how to get a new level building to update to the city screen now though, so that may appear in this thread soon.

    But an all new building is still in the "banging on it" stage. It's not a very intuitive system, I'll say that much >_<

    Edit: There is a mod of the Alexander the Great LH as an Evil Knight that might also work for the Barbarian/Robber Baron LH.

    And as for the Animals, I think do dreadful druidish looking guy or the Horned-god of the Hunt might work, but that's where we cross over the "fantasy/mythology" line.
     
  6. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

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    I had wrote up a tutorial on adding a new building here. Also, in the city screen the Buildings that need to be "ordered" are the ones with workers. In 2.0 I changed the Tavern and the Theater both so that they don't require workers but instead work like the printing press and give bonuses so they can actually be moved or stashed else where. Also, we could consider moving the Stables out of the city screen and make it solely a city plot profession to make more room.

    There is another alternative for "Pit Digger" or perhaps another unit that is my Expert Salt Miner. I removed Salt as a resource so he lost his job but he was a cute little unit so I'd like to see him used somewhere. He carries a shovel with him for digging. Anyway, the Medieval2.pak file holds a ton of units I never even used. I mean to clean that up at some point to make it less bulky.
     
  7. drjest2000

    drjest2000 Chieftain

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    I considered the Saltminer unit, but discounted it on account of it looking more Roman than Medieval. All it needs really is a recolor to remove the armored look. That's 15-30 minutes work in Photoshop. More important than all other considerations is the fact "it already works in Col" :D
     
  8. drjest2000

    drjest2000 Chieftain

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    Art for a cold weather/ice and tundra fighter promotion, inspiration (and basic art) taken from Le Sage's Civ 4 Fairy Tale mod (LINK)



    I figure the Vikings and some Viking Age natives would have this. And Col lacks a specific tundra & ice terrain fighting/movement promotion
     

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  9. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

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    That's a good idea. We could create a new Trait they gives Civs the new promotion and maybe +1 food in tundra.
     
  10. drjest2000

    drjest2000 Chieftain

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    I was looking through the CIV4PromotionInfos.xml of M:C and saw that all the Huntsman promotions were using the same icon, so I pirated these from Le Sage's Civ 4 Fairy Tale mod (LINK)

     

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  11. drjest2000

    drjest2000 Chieftain

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    I've been thinking about resources the past few weeks, mostly I've been thinking about how to get them added to the PlotLSystem...

    I know that there are a huge variety of resources available for Civ 4 and most of those can or have been ported into Col, but I keep asking myself the same question : "Is it necessary?"

    I have a "thing" about Salt and Vinegar because I know that the success of European society hinged on a number of things, chiefly it was animals that could be domesticated (chiefly: cows ~8,000 BC, sheep ~ 10,000 BC, goats ~8,000 BC, and geese ~3,000 BC) combined with a number of food crops that could be brought into domestication (chiefly: Wheat, Barley, Oats and Rye which were eaten long ages before they were cultivated, so nailing down the precise date of their domestication is an iffy proposition). But all of this bounty of food was kind of useless if it went rotten before it could be eaten, ergo Salt and Vinegar are the magical ingredients to ancient food storage and the ability to expand by colonization. Although parching and drying rank in there too, they don't hold up well in damp, humid, or down right wet climates (like long sea voyages).

    So here's were pottery comes in as a storage vessel for salted and vinegared food.

    Beer comes in to the picture about the time grains are brought into domestication. Cook your porridge, let it set half a day in summer heat and it starts fermenting from the wild yeast in the air, let it ferment long enough and you have alcoholic gruel, let it ferment a little longer and it turns to vinegary gruel because of a second fermentation process by another wild yeast that converts the alcohol to vinegar. So since about the first time someone soaked or boiled grain, there has been beer and malt vinegar of very suspect quality.

    We made beer from an ancient Egyptian recipe in college and I can say this much for it: It was lumpy, kind of gooey, but it was highly alcoholic and it was most definitely a very potent laxative.

    The MesoAmericans did something similar with maize and agave, but it involved a good deal of chewing and spitting into a bowl. I don't recommend it. Three days of my life were lost to that filth. Truth be told, peyote was less hateful, and trust me, it was plenty hateful.

    So I vote for bringing back salt as a resource....

    Anyway, if we stay in the context of ~450 AD - ~1450 AD, and we stick to the European and North African trade routes, what we're missing in M:C are:

    Botanical resources:
    • Wheat
    • Rye
    • Oats
    • Apples
    • Pears
    • Quince
    • Sloe
    • Plums
    • Peaches - a major luxury item imported from the Mediterranean
    • Pomegranates - A major luxury item imported from the Mediterranean
    • Melons - a major luxury item imported from the Mediterranean
    • About 60 kinds of berry (Cloudberry, lingonberry, whortleberry, red currants, to name a few)
    • Almonds - a major luxury item imported from the Mediterranean
    • Pistachios - a major luxury item imported from the Mediterranean

    Note: Pain perdu or "French toast" was invented during the Medieval period to replace the nut course of the traditional Roman meal, which was most usually pistachios.

    Also: Until some point in the 1600s, most Europeans raised crops solely to feed livestock and did not eat vegetables except during times of famine. Peasants probably ate whatever they could wrap their hands around. But for the most part the only vegetable product most Europeans ate was bread or gruel - which was made with a lot of water and a little flour, which might be made from a wide variety of things, including chestnuts and acorns.

    I have an old college textbook around here somewhere with a quote from the accounting records of a manor listing the pay rates of everyone in a particular castle/manor, the bulk of the pay was in loaves of bread (the lower on the totem pole the staler it was and the less you got), candle stubs (this was serious business, stewards and high ranking servants might turn on you for not providing them with these), salt, and BEER! Very few servants received pay in actual money. Those that did receive payment in silver usually received a lot more than seems reasonable, but I suppose loyalty has to be rewarded.

    IMHO, all of these could be ignored as they don't really add anything to the game.

    Food animals:
    • Rabbits/hare
    • Deer/red deer/stag/elk/reindeer/etc
    • Wild cattle
    • European bison
    • Pigs (domesticated)

    Note: All of these are sufficiently represented by existing items in the game, especially by the huntsman and the luxury food. So I am listing them here simply to be thorough.

    Geological resources:
    • Amber - a major luxury item, a large, fine piece could command a price equal to its weight in gold
    • Gold - a major luxury item used mostly for religious and royal ornamentation, very few kings every had much gold, so IMHO silver more than adequately covers this since the economy of medieval Europe was based almost entirely on silver
    • Greenstone - I am not entirely certain what that is, but it was a major trade item in Medieval Britain, a lot of the earliest churches were build with it, where I live in central Appalachia we have a kind of slate called "greenstone" that was historically used to make gravestones, but I can't believe it is the same thing. It's way to soft and brittle to use to build a Romanesque church.
    • Limestone - used far more often to build cathedrals than granite. Castles were made of whatever stone was handy. Although one could say that the stone resource in M:C represents all kinds of stone used for construction and be done with it.
    • Clay
    • Marl - a calcium carbonate or lime-rich mud or mudstone which contains variable amounts of clays and silt, the first-choice fertilizer used in medieval Britain and Europe, more so than human and animal manure, which was usually dried and used for other purposes, like fire-fuel and filling holes in drafty castle walls.:dubious:
    • Graphite - I am not entirely sure how this relates to the manufacture of weapons, but every source of graphite in Britain was owned by the king and they built fortresses to protect the graphite quarries/mines
    • Mineral mud & Mineral water - these were important from Roman time forward as "medicines" (read as laxatives), the worse they stank, the more peeps paid for them
    • Quicksilver/Mercury - used as a medicine and in the refinement of gold
    • Mica - used for windows more often than glass until the late medieval period
    • Rock crystal (clear quartz) - crystal goblets used to be made of this and it was used to make "firestones", mirrors, prisms, and the like long before the process of glass-making could produce high quality lens-glass. The fabulously wealthy Duc de Berry paid 700 silver ducats to a Genovese merchant for a "firestone" the size of a goose's egg.

    Out of all of the geological resources, I think only Amber is significant enough to add.

    Then there's honey.... Which was a big money item, but I have not the first idea how it could be made to be of use in M:C
     
  12. drjest2000

    drjest2000 Chieftain

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    I was looking at the EE2 boats/ships, and I like the Holk/Hulk and the Cargo Boat as late game replacements for the Galleon, both designs came into use about 1100 AD. The Black Sea, Mediterranean and Baltic were still using galleys for war and trade as late as the 1700s, but for trade that passed into Atlantic waters or crossed the Mediterranean to North Africa, a different kind of ship was used by the Venetians and Genovese.

    The Cog/Kogge was used by the Hanseatic League, but the design was not limited to them or to a specific size. Some carried cargoes that rivaled later ship designs like the smaller merchantmen. It has to do with the seasonal nature of trade in the Baltic region.

    I think when the English were first trading with the Rus at the port of Arkhangelsk (about 1400), they went in kogges. I know the English were hot to break the Swedish monopoly of trade in the Baltic from the time of Elizabeth I and the English established a "foreign quarter" in several Rus cities about the time of Ivan Grozny, so that by the time of Peter the Great a great deal of trade coming out of Russia was controlled by the English and Dutch (who were on kissing terms at that particular point in history - William III was King of England and something like King of Holland).

    Anyway, back on point, the ships in M:C are are all perfectly in place in the early part of the game, but by 1100 AD they begin to become anachronisms. The problem is the regionalism of design and use falls out of synch. If M:C were totally North European in focus, the ships would go one direction in general design, if it were Mediterranean/North African in focus, it would go another.

    A design very similar to the Xebec/Chebec has been used in the Mediterranean, Arabian Sea, and India Ocean since antiquity. The Romans crossed the Indian Ocean on ships like Xebecs during the time of the Caesars. And the art of the Early Kingdom in Egypt depicts ships like Xebecs and Knarrs (the coastal trader in M:C) being used for trade. In fact smaller craft and ships in the region still bear similar designs to those used in antiquity. So obviously new ship designs were slow coming.

    I'm not entirely sure what manner of ships William used to land his troops on the shores of Britain, but I think they couldn't have been shallow-draft, longboat-style ships. The ships depicted in the Bayeux Tapestry are very much like Viking longboats, but this may be a limitation of the artist's imagination and skill. It is difficult to imagine transporting 7,000 to 12,000 men, a similar number of horses, and all their supplies and war materiel with that type of boat. If they carried 40 men or 20 horses each, and lets say they made the crossing three times each, that works out to something like 300 to 400 longboats. I almost doubt that there were that many boats capable of that level of tonnage in the whole of northern France in 1066. So I am certain there had to be larger ships than longboats used to affect the crossing.

    So I'm thinking something like a Holk was used. At the very least, some precursor of the Holk. It's very likely that William hired ships from other European powers. But I am only guessing.
     
  13. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

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    So you miss salt, aye. I just lumped salt in with spices. And at the moment the system works pretty well with the production of Luxury Food. I think if we to bring in salt we should bring in Fish and have the two work together as another source of Food either luxury or no.

    I like amber as a resource as it was really unique and came from only one place. That would be the Northern trade route favoured commodity. You didn't meantion tea or insence those were pretty big too right? We could clump all Fruit together and have them come from the south trade routes.

    Adding those ships you mention sounds great and I've been meaning to study into the later medieval time ship development. I read that the caravel actually makes an apperence during the high middle ages. I want to bring in gun powder at some point to add a whole new level of strategy.

    I've been thinking of pottery. If we did nothing else pottery would just be another cash commodity but I like to add strategic depth. So, Maybe it could be an alternative way to make tools early on. Sense Ore is used to make tools as well as weapons it would stand to reason to have two sourses of tools. Then if a player discovers Porceline thier potters could switch between tools and porcelain just like the armor smith can switch. Still pondering the potter:)
     
  14. drjest2000

    drjest2000 Chieftain

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    Tea doesn't show up in Europe until the Dutch traders brought it back from the East Indies sometime in the 1500s.

    Incense, as it was understood in medieval times, came from one place, the southern end of Arabia and Abyssinia. AFAIK, during the medieval period, that was the only place where the bushes that Myrrh and Frankincense are made from grew. Both Myrrh and Frankincense are the dried sap of desert bushes. These two were considered of paramount importance to Christian rituals because they were specifically named in the Bible. Even today, Catholic churches still use Myrrh and Frankincense exclusively in high rituals.

    Sandalwood, patchouli, and other smell-good products from the Far East were not commonly available until the Portuguese started rounding the Horn of Africa in the 1500s. And even then, they were considered inferior to Myrrh and Frankincense until some time in the 1700s.

    There's a good article on Wikipedia about the Incense Route (LINK)

    But this map has it all in a single image: IMAGE LINK

    During the medieval period, the Crusades effectively shut down the flow of trade along the traditional Spice/Incense route which had come to Europe and the Mediterranean via the Red Sea and Persian Gulf. This forced the use of overland routes, depending on the politics of the given moment, it may require passing north of the Caspian Sea and entering India via the Khyber Pass. Or on a good week, the route could pass through Persia.

    In the 1200s, there was a crisis of sorts in the Catholic church because there was not enough proper incense to burn during masses. So the use of censers/thuribles was restricted to masses conducted by bishops and later -- as the shortage grew worse -- archbishops. There was even a degree of hysteria that came into play over it that led to all manner of craziness. They even blamed the half-dozen earthquakes in the Eastern Mediterranean on the shortage of incense. And when the "big one" hit Crete in 1303 and set off a tsunami that completely destroyed Alexandria (which was abandoned from that time until the Napoleonic era), they said it was a sign of the end times...

    And when the Black Death rolled through in 1348, they knew it was because God was angry because they weren't worshiping him right... meaning, they had been using substitutes for Myrrh and Frankincense.... It's all crazy, superstitious nonsense, but people would/will believe about anything thing then and now.

    Anyway, incense is a big trade item until the Crusades, then it started costing so much that even the Popes had to budget their use of it. So from 476 until about 1100, yes, incense, definitely, but then it goes scarce until tensions between East and West ease up sometime after the fall of Constantinople (1453), right on the door step of the Age of Discovery.
     
  15. drjest2000

    drjest2000 Chieftain

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    The grandmother of the caravel came into being about 1350 AD, but it looked only a little like the unit in Civ4 and Civ4Col, that model is a very late version. Before the caravel, most European trade was done with the Balinger (which I cannot find an illustration of) and the Barca (barge)

    The Coastal Trader in M:C is based on the Black Friars ship (ca. 150 AD):



    The Norse were crossing the Atlantic with ships like that, which they named a Knarr. There was use of a larger ship they called a Drugga, but no details of it are given in the sagas. I assume from the name that is was a barge like craft "dragged" or "towed" by Knarrs. When I picture bare-chested Vikings rowing as they sing "death, death, death" it's hard nor to picture them dragging a barge loaded with seal furs and trainoil all the way across the Atlantic.

    And its design was unchanged for at least 1000 years, even into the late Victorian era you might find ships of that design hauling coal or iron ore.

    By the mid-Medieval period, about 1000 AD, the Kogge/Cog was coming into play:





    The Kogge appears about 1000 and is the mother of a family of ship design that leads to the Holk, Carrack, East Indiamen, Merchantmen, and Yankee Clippers, while the caravel is mother of a different family of designs, think "yacht". The Caravel was historically important because the Portuguese used it extensively in the exploration voyages, it was light, fast, and handled well, but it was not well suited to hauling cargoes.

    The Kogge was capable of carrying cargoes and crossing deep water, whereas the Holk was primarily a coast-hugger and channel jumper except in the region of the Baltic, where the water is shallow and much calmer than in the North Sea and Atlantic.

    The weird thing is, the Vikings crossed the North Atlantic, which is not known for good weather, with high frequency, and with very few losses, whereas the loss rate for caravels along the equatorial hurricane belt was exceptionally high. Yet the Spanish and Portuguese were the ones to "conquer" the New World. But it was not because they had better boats, it was because they had gunpowder :D
     

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  16. drjest2000

    drjest2000 Chieftain

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    Okay, serious questions, because I genuinely don't know.

    Does adding a new traded resource (like indigo, spice, etc) require compiling a new DLL?

    And where/how is the AI controlled?

    And is it possible to alter the DLL so a player can "buy" the happiness of the Pope? This was done rather a lot.

    And what program did you use to create the GameFont TGAs? Because I cannot figure out how any of the font numbers relate to the crosses for the civs.
     
  17. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

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    I am not actually sure about the adding new Yields part as it seems like I read that you didn't have to as long as it was just a common trade yield but I have never tested it out. It may be written up in the tutorial sections.

    What part of the AI? There is city AI, Unit AI, Player AI, etc. They are controlled in the CvUnitAI.cpp files for example.

    To edit the TGA I used this tutorial http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=181119&highlight=tga

    The colored crosses do not match the Civ atm and some Civs may not even have a cross. The TGA is some complicated stuff I tell you.

    And yeah, it would be possible to add new Diplomacy to pay off the Pope and make him like you. That is a good idea. If you defy the Pope cause you are saving for something then after you get it you come into some big money you can give it to Pope. Put it on the to do list :)

    I have a research project for you. I want to diversify the Professions the Natives Teach to be more Historically correct or at least change it up a bit. So, we need to figure out what Civs would have been masters at their professions. And I'd like to add maybe Wily Trader, Brilliant Dignitary, Prolific Inventor, Huntsman and any of the other units as teachable.

    I was thinking too the some Native cites could actually be monasteries and you could learn to be a Benedict Monk there.
     
  18. drjest2000

    drjest2000 Chieftain

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    Well, I tried editing the GameFont.tga with the steps listed in three different tutorials, but it made the FontIcons go completely out of whack in M:C.

    What I was trying to do was test something more visually striking than skinny crosses, something like this:


    I've always disliked the micro-cross icons in Civ4Col, at higher resolutions on a large monitor, they disappear unless you keep the focus scrolled in tight.

    The example is for the civs I'm putting into my ColGold mod, but the idea would work for any mod
     

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  19. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    GameFonts are really annoying.
    Especially if you try to add many new Yields or SpecialBuildings. (First 2 rows.)
    But even adding Icons for Missioning Crosses or new Bonus Resources can mess up the lines below if you are not careful.

    Two suggestions:

    1. Be very careful with Alpha channel and check after each addition.
    (DXTBmp and GameFontEditor help a bit.)

    2. If you plan to add many new Icons (Yields, Specialbuildings, Missioning Crosses, ...) switch to "Extra Large GameFonts" right away.
    (Like RaR and some other Mods use.)
     
  20. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

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    Thanks again, ray for your input :)

    Is there a tutorial out there that fully explains what is going on in the tga? It is so mind boggling. In M:C I wanted to add in new city map icon's to show a few things about each city. In vanilla it keeps up with things such as missionaries, weapons, defense, and amount of Rebel sentiment. Some how though the icons have become off track such as if you use DEFENSE_CHAR in C++ you get a different symbol but in python it still is a DEFENSE_CHAR. Each time I edit the tga I have to go and edit the C++ files to display the correct _CHAR. Mind boggling! :crazyeye:
     

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