Better Know Your Hexes

[Andrew_Jay]

A hex-based map is a pretty huge departure for Civilization, and no doubt some longtime players are still reeling from the announcement. Of course, hexes have been the norm in wargaming for a longtime and the makers themselves mention the Panzer General series as an inspiration.

I only have experience with a handful of wargames that uses hexes, so I'm starting this thread to discuss hex-based games in general and what that format may hold for Civ 5. If the makers are drawing on Panzer General (which I am not very familiar with), what may be in store?

To start it off, here are a couple of games that use hexes:

The Perfect General



Older computer wargame, abstract setting featuring roughly Second World War equipment (tanks, infantry, artillery, armoured cars, bazookas, etc.)

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(Perfect General Internet Edition, released 2003)

Memoir '44





Tactical boardgame covering Normandy (and, with its expansions, the rest of the Second World War). Units are squads of infantry, armour or artillery with simple combat mechanics. Plus, as I'm sure you can imagine, the game also restricts you to one unit per tile.

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Of course, these are two very tactical games - so what else is out there on more of a Civilization-scale?

 

[Mael Sechlainn]

I'm not really used to these sort of war games, can anyone explain to me how hexes work and how they are better?

 

[Seventh Child]

Of course, these are two very tactical games - so what else is out there on more of a Civilization-scale?

I think Catan uses hexes.

Also I just checked, Age of Wonders uses hexes and is very similar to Civ (Though with more HoMM in it as well).

 

[DSYoungEsq]

Hexes have the advantage that you don't cover ground "faster" along a diagonal, since diagonal moves are not available. All moves are thus equal as to how much actual distance is covered.

Hexes have the disadvantage of offering fewer movement options (6 not 8), thus making tactical choices more difficult.

What additional advantages/disadvantages they may have over squares will depend upon execution of the movement and combat systems.

 

[Alex_C]

Also, would cities have fewer tiles to work?

 

[Mael Sechlainn]

Hexes have the advantage that you don't cover ground "faster" along a diagonal, since diagonal moves are not available. All moves are thus equal as to how much actual distance is covered.

Hexes have the disadvantage of offering fewer movement options (6 not 8), thus making tactical choices more difficult.

What additional advantages/disadvantages they may have over squares will depend upon execution of the movement and combat systems.

thanks for the explanation

 

[Andrew_Jay]

Also, would cities have fewer tiles to work?

A hex would, obviously, be surrounded by a ring of 6 other hexes. Include the next ring and you have a total of 18 hexes around a city.

. . . Age of Wonders uses hexes and is very similar to Civ (Though with more HoMM in it as well).

Right, I forgot about Age of Wonders, that was pretty similar to Civ - cities that produced units, slightly larger scale, though the game consisted of a series of linked scenarios.

 

[Irgy]

I honestly think the difference hexes instead of squares will have on the game is going to be completely swallowed by the other changes.

The biggest difference I think is that it's much easier to create a battle line with hexes, which when combined with the apparent one-unit-per-tile change will mean wars are going to be much more about territory control than unit-spam.

 

[Andrew_Jay]

I honestly think the difference hexes instead of squares will have on the game is going to be completely swallowed by the other changes.

The biggest difference I think is that it's much easier to create a battle line with hexes, which when combined with the apparent one-unit-per-tile change will mean wars are going to be much more about territory control than unit-spam.

I completely agree - moving from squares to hexes is pretty minor and there will be changes with greater impact.

However, it seems that hexes are also ushering in a lot of the more substantial changes, as the designers borrow from other wargames and have a different approach to Civ.

 

[Irgy]

However, it seems that hexes are also ushering in a lot of the more substantial changes, as the designers borrow from other wargames and have a different approach to Civ.

In that case, the effect is probably that the combat is going to be a little bit more "mathematically minded" (whatever that means), as the sources of ideas shift to the sorts of people who would use hexes

 

[Double A]

Heroscape.

One unit per hex too, although an entirely different setting.

 

[Mesodius]

Personally, having played a lot of old wargames as a kid, I am rather excited to see the game move from a military style based around city capture to a military style based around the control of territory, which would be allowed with a hex map and one-unit-per-tile rules.

In the old style your tactic is "build SOD, insert SOD where you want stuff killed" for attack and "build SOD, insert into city" for defence. Now you'll have to worry about unit deployment/line strength, flanking maneuovres and getting surrounded and cut off from other units, fortifying positions, etc.

I don't mind the loss of of a couple of the movement options in the form of those "corner moves", because those were silly anyway, and pretty much made it impossible to form a line protect your territory unless you happen to control a choke point or want to use over 9,000 units building a huge wasteful vertical/horizontal line, because the enemy could just slip between your units.

 

[Seventh Child]

I don't mind the loss of of a couple of the movement options in the form of those "corner moves", because those were silly anyway, and pretty much made it impossible to form a line protect your territory unless you happen to control a choke point or want to use over 9,000 units building a huge wasteful vertical/horizontal line, because the enemy could just slip between your units.

Or more likely they would build a Stack of Doom and just plow right through the line since it is equally weak the whole way down.

 

[Steenberger]

Settlers II also uses hexes.

Great game, btw.

 

[Seventh Child]

Settlers II also uses hexes.

Great game, btw.

Didn't realize that game used hexes. Loved that game though. That screenshots from the first Tutorial Campaign with the Romans landing on a mysterious island; I'd recognize it anywhere.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Are you sure those are hexes? To me it looks like Settlers II uses triangles (which of course can form hexes if you just put 6 together)

 

[Lord Tirian]

Hexes have the advantage that you don't cover ground "faster" along a diagonal, since diagonal moves are not available. All moves are thus equal as to how much actual distance is covered.

Hexes have the disadvantage of offering fewer movement options (6 not 8), thus making tactical choices more difficult.

Note that hexes also avoid ambiguous diagonals of two land squares surrounded by water: In CivII, land diagonals could be crossed by land units and also by ships, in CivIV, land diagonals form a barrier for ships. With squares, this choice is entirely arbitrary and not necessarily clear until you run into it, hexes never present such a problem.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

land diagonals only form a land barrier in civ4 if there is a (possible) other route. But if it's the only choice then you can move through land diagonals with your ships just fine.

 

[GreatProfit]

Wesnoth!

 

[Trias]

land diagonals only form a land barrier in civ4 if there is a (possible) other route. But if it's the only choice then you can move through land diagonals with your ships just fine.

Wow, it was even more unintuitive than I thought.