Better RoM

[Afforess]

Better RoM
Making Rise of Mankind the best it can be!

Current Changes:
Red Text Labels Removed Features or Abilities
Blue Text Marks new Features or Abilities


Civics:

Spoiler :

Despotism:

• +50% Distance Maintenance
• +20% Military Production
• Military Units produced with Food
• -25% War Weariness
• +25% in the Capital
• -20% in all cities
• -45% in all cities
• 50% Faster construction of the Barracks & Garrison
• +25% City Defense in all Cities

Monarchy

• Unlimited Nobles
• +25% Great General Emergence
• +1 XP for all Units
• +1 support cost per military unit
• 50% Faster Construction of Castles
• No Unhappiness in the Capital City
• +1 unhappiness per 15% Tax Rate

Federal:

• +50% War Weariness
• +25% in all cities
• +1 support cost per Unit
• +1 support cost per military unit
• -10% in all cities
• +25% espionage in all cities
  
• +1 happiness in all cities
• -25% Distance Maintenance
  

Communism:

• Civic Removed.

Fascist:
Unlimited Spies
+2XP for new units
+1 :happiness: per military unit in each city
+15% : hammers: in All Cities
-15% , -50% in All Cities
+1 espionage per specialist
-50% War Weariness
+10 Free Military Unit Upkeep
+15 Military Unit Production


New Slavery Civic:

• 3 times normal anarchy length
• Medium Upkeep
• -35% Great People
• -5% distance and # of city maintainance
• +1 Unhealthiness
• -300% Civic Anger (This means that for roughly each 4 population, you get +1 happiness if someone else is using slavery. You lose bonus if you switch to slavery.)
• -100% City Growth Rate (Cities grow 2x as slow)
• +5% gold
• + 15% production
• Unlimited Slave Count
• Can Construct Slave Market
• +1 from farms, plantations, olive farms, silk farms, wineries
• +1 from mines, shaft mines, modern mines, quarries, lumbermills, workshops

Bourgeois:

• Butchery and Fisherman's Hut are built 50% Faster.

Units:

Spoiler :

Chariots:

• Cost Lowered to 30
• Withdraw Chance Raised to 25%
• First Strike Immune

Horseman:

• One Free Strike
• One Free Strike Chance

Horse Archer:

• One Free Strike
• One Free Strike Chance

Mobile Artillery:

• Requires Robotics and Computers

Terrain:

Spoiler :

Forests Now only give 10% Health to a city (Reduced from 50%)

Technologies:

Spoiler :

Democracy

• Requires Monarchy, Mathematics, Currency, and Code of Laws to research.

Resources:

Spoiler :

• Clam, Corn, Cow, Crab, Deer, Pig, Salt, Potato, Lemon, and Shrimp no longer give +1 health, they give an extra +1 instead.
  
• Dye, Sugar, Coffee, Cotton, Glass, Rubber, and Semiconductors no longer give +1 happiness, they give an extra instead.
  
• Olives no longer gives +1 happiness, it gives +1 food instead.
  
• Tobacco no longer gives +1 happiness, it gives 2 extra instead.
  
• Tea and Biofuel no longer give +1 happiness, they now give an extra and +1 health.
  
• Sulpher has been tweaked to spawn more frequently.

Buildings:

Spoiler :

Guildhall:

• Requires Guilds Civic

Grocer:

• Replaced by the Supermarket
• +1 from Apples, Bananas, Lemons, Spices, Sugar, Wine
• +1 from Apples, Bananas, Lemons, Spices, Sugar, Wine
• Gold Modifier reduced from 25% to 15%
  

SuperMarket:

• Replaced by the HyperMarket

Infonet:

• Requires Power

Pharmacy:

• +1 health with Chemicals

Skyscraper:

• Requires Power

Telephone Network:

• Requires Power

Computer Network:

• Requires Power

Healer's Hut:

• Replaced by the Doctor's Office

Granary:

• +1 health from Rice, Wheat, Potato

Butchery:

• +1 from Deer, Cow, Pig, Sheep

Artesian Well:

• +3 from Rice

Fisherman's Hut:

• +1 from Fish, Crab, Whale, Shrimp

Harbor:

• +1 happiness from Fur, Silk, Wine
• +1 from Fur, Silk, Wine

Commercial Port:

• +1 happiness from Fur, Silk, Wine, Ivory, Whale, Coffee
• +1 from Fur, Silk, Wine, Ivory, Whale, Coffee
  

International Port:

• +1 happiness from Fur, Silk, Wine, Ivory, Whale, Coffee
• +1 from Fur, Silk, Wine, Ivory, Whale, Coffee
  

Military Airbase:

• Air unit production boost decreased from 50% to 25%

Areospace Complex:

• Air unit production boost decreased from 50% to 25%

Manufacturing Plant:

• Production boost decreased from 40% to 25%

Cannery:

• +1 from Alcohol, Wine
• +1 from Apple, Corn, Cow, Deer, Crab, Lemon, Olives, Pig, Sheep, Shrimp, Whale
• +2 from Fish

Observatory:

• Obsolete with Satellites

Accelerator:

• Requires Power

Opera House:

• Obsolete with Mind Uploading

Jewelery:

• +1 happiness from Gems, Gold, Silver
• +1 with Gems, Gold, Silver

Bazaar:

• +1 happiness with pearls, tea
• + 1 from Pearls, Ivory, Spices, Tea

Market:

• Gold Modifier reduced from 20% to 15%
• +1 happiness from Fur, Ivory, Silk, Whale, Cotton, Olives
• +1 from Fur, Ivory, Silk, Whale, Cotton, Olives

Wonders:

Spoiler :

The Olympic Games :

• obsoletes with Modern Sports

Eiffel Tower:

• +3 with Tourism

The Theory of Evolution:

• Laboratories are built 50% Faster

Adam Smith's Trading Co:

• +1 gold per specialist
• Gives Trade Routes will all other met players
• +50% Trade Route Yield in the City

Notre Dame:

• Obsolete with Megastructure Engineering

Pentagon:

• 15% Espionage Defense

Mausoleum of Maussollos:

• Obsolete with Realism

Cure for Cancer

• Moved to a Project

Human Genome Project:

• Moved to a Project

Longevity:

• Moved to a Project

National Sports League:

• +1 happiness
• +1 happiness on the continent
• +1 Happiness per 20% Culture Rate

Carhenge:

• +1 Health
• +1 Global Health

Art of War:

• +1 XP for all troops in the city
• +1 XP for all troops in the player's cities

Supercollider:

• Science Modifier lowered from 50% to 25%
• Space Parts Production Raised from 10% to 25%
• Requires Power

Theory of Evolution

• Moved to a Project

Universal Translator:

• Moved to a Project

Theory of Everything:

• Moved to a Project

Projects:

Spoiler :

Cure for Cancer:

• All Cities Receive +2 health
• All Player Cities Receive +2 health (4 health total)
• All Player Cities Receive +1 Happiness

Human Genome Project:

• All Cities Receive +1 health
• All Player Cities Receive +2 health

Longevity:

• All Cities Receive +1 Happiness, Health
• All Player's Cities Receive +1 Happiness, Health

Theory of Everything:

• All Player's Cities Receive +2 Happiness
• +25% Science in All Player's Cities

Theory of Evolution:

• +10% gold in all player cities
• +15% science in all player cities

Universal Translator:

• All Cities Receive +1 Happiness
• +20% Gold, Science, Culture, Espionage in all player's cities

 

[civ_king]

If there were things you could tweak about RoM, what would they be?

I'm trying to fix some of the unbalancing features in RoM (Like the artesian well, or the unbalanced civics). Better RoM will be a new component in the 1.60 installers, completely optional, but recommended.

Current Changes:

• Cultural Levels are 20% harder to get.
• Two New Economic Civics, Guilds and Coinage
• The civic slavery has been completely re-written (see below)
• The Butchery and Fisherman hut now give a static +1 per resource instead of +5%.
• The Artesian well now gives a static +3
• The Cannery now gives a static +1 or instead of using % modifiers.

New Slavery Civic:

• 3 times normal anarchy length
• Medium Upkeep
• -35% Great People
• -5% distance and # of city maintainance
• +1
• -300% Civic Anger (This means that for roughly each 4 population, you get +1 if someone else is using slavery. You lose bonus if you switch to slavery.)
• -100% City Growth Rate (Cities grow 2x as slow)
• +5%
• Unlimited Slave Count
• Can Construct Slave Market
• +1 from farms, plantations, olive farms, silk farms, wineries
• +1 from mines, shaft mines, modern mines, quarries, lumbermills, workshops

So, the big changes are that you can no longer hurry with population (That seems to hurt the AI a lot), Cities grow lots slower, Slavery doesn't cause any unhappiness (slaves do not get a voice in the public opinion, and slavery was long held as normal; unhappiness seemed odd.), and slavery now makes free societies much happier. Slavery is undoubtedly a step up from barter, but the slowed growth and happiness boost to other non-slavery societies, are big counters to this. Hopefully, all players will be able to see slavery as a viable civic choice.

Thoughts on other tweaks? Is the new slavery over-powered? Are my other changes good, bad, or neither?

no more 50 pop cities in the medieval era

 

[NBAfan]

I like your changes so far.
There is to much extra happness and health in the middle part of the game.

 

[strategyonly]

I would have one of the civics start using gold to finish earlier in the game like the old Monarchy used to, Kings used to buy anything and everything way back to the Dawn of Time. I believe the earliest right now is Economics, which is way too late in game. But i might be wrong on that part.

One other thing is that the Archery Range should be moved to Hunting Tech from Feudalism. They used to have contest even back in the BC era who could hit an item from a certain distant (hence, Archery Range).

Another thing i would change just for the performance stand point (i believe) would be having NO unit over 3 (three) units TOTAL, except for settler of course.

 

[os79]

One other thing is that the Archery Range should be moved to Hunting Tech from Feudalism. They used to have contest even back in the BC era who could hit an item from a certain distant (hence, Archery Range).

If it was done this way, then Warrior's Hut will need to be nerfed for the archers . And make Archery Range a bit more expensive because it will continue down into early Renaissance.

 

[little_cyclone]

In many civilizations slaves were used in the military to fulfill a variety of roles, from basic support (cooks, hauling supplies, etc), to front line combat (early janissaries, mamluks, etc), perhaps there should be some type of increase for the military some how? Maybe the slave market can give a special slavery promotion of some type?

Also, while I can agree with the reasoning for no unhappiness, maybe there could be a increase in maintenance of some type to reflect additional police and "slave patrols"?

Another thing i would change just for the performance stand point (i believe) would be having NO unit over 3 (three) units TOTAL, except for settler of course.

As in, I would only be able to have 3 archers at a time??

 

[strategyonly]

As in, I would only be able to have 3 archers at a time??

No, as in ONE unit (total three people), ie Wardogs: 2 wardogs, one Rifleman. In much smaller mods its ok to have ALOT of (people) in ONE unit, but in larger mods it just doesnt make much sense, its just takes up resources, time and energy.(ie; memory)

 

[Supercheese]

No, as in ONE unit (total three people), ie Wardogs: 2 wardogs, one Rifleman. In much smaller mods its ok to have ALOT of (people) in ONE unit, but in larger mods it just doesnt make much sense, its just takes up resources, time and energy.(ie; memory)

You mean, the number of actual unit models displayed on screen, right? So you're proposing that instead of several dogs in the Wardog unit, there be only two, correct?

 

[strategyonly]

You mean, the number of actual unit models displayed on screen, right? So you're proposing that instead of several dogs in the Wardog unit, there be only two, correct?

Exactly. Plus all other units also, except the settler.

I was just thinking also, i like my Promotion Sniper alot better than what the current Sniper/unit(s) are also. That way they get an extra round to fight again. Plus the unit itself (Sniper) has to have invisibility like the spy.(Thats why they are called Sniper's in the first place.)

 

[CivEikka]

New Slavery Civic:

• 3 times normal anarchy length
• Medium Upkeep
• -35% Great People
• -5% distance and # of city maintainance
• +1
• -300% Civic Anger (This means that for roughly each 4 population, you get +1 if someone else is using slavery. You lose bonus if you switch to slavery.)
• -100% City Growth Rate (Cities grow 2x as slow)
• +5%
• Unlimited Slave Count
• Can Construct Slave Market
• +1 from farms, plantations, olive farms, silk farms, wineries
• +1 from mines, shaft mines, modern mines, quarries, lumbermills, workshops

Thoughts on other tweaks? Is the new slavery over-powered? Are my other changes good, bad, or neither?

What about you could capture slaves. ie. defeating military units/capture them from cities. +1 gold more (so +2 gold total) or + 1 resource more per plantations. Increases national rebelliouness (Slaves from different cultures..) but Increases local rebelliouness if lots of slaves, but if there are few slaves (should be seen in culture meter) it decreases rebelliouness. Like if 5% of the population is slaves, the 95% is happy, but if 50% are slaves (like in ancient rome) then it should rapidly rise the rebelliouness. There should be civil wars from slavery.

+10% commerce would be nice (+5% to what you said), and +2 unhealthiness. +15% production for buildings/ships/wonders/vechicles (Until Industrial era, when more machines came) And when liberalism has been invented, it could add +x (x = how many civs know liberalism) and with liberal civs there could be - diplo points. Statue of Liberty would grant unhappiness.

 

[Killtech]

What about you could capture slaves. ie. defeating military units/capture them from cities. +1 gold more (so +2 gold total) or + 1 resource more per plantations. Increases national rebelliouness (Slaves from different cultures..) but Increases local rebelliouness if lots of slaves, but if there are few slaves (should be seen in culture meter) it decreases rebelliouness. Like if 5% of the population is slaves, the 95% is happy, but if 50% are slaves (like in ancient rome) then it should rapidly rise the rebelliouness. There should be civil wars from slavery.

+10% commerce would be nice (+5% to what you said), and +2 unhealthiness. +15% production for buildings/ships/wonders/vechicles (Until Industrial era, when more machines came) And when liberalism has been invented, it could add +x (x = how many civs know liberalism) and with liberal civs there could be - diplo points. Statue of Liberty would grant unhappiness.

yeah capturing slaves is a funny idea. finnaly the slaves have to come form somewhere. they could be simular in use to great persosn maybe - settleable in a town or creating buildings. maybe at the cost of increasing other nationalities or even worse: a percentual part of your culture income would be converted into foreign culture... funny thing if your wounder overloaded capital would become so multinational that it has more alien culture that your own, hehe. rebliousnes and unhappines would therefore automatically increase with the number of settled slaves. would be funny idea, though it's rather something for the furure.

@Afforess: you nerfed slavery civic quite harshly. i admit it was a bit overpowered before but with that hard cut in city growth it's very far from being OP now. i'm not sure it'll be even a choice for me now since my primary strength of my empire were super sized cities with huge + and income... especially because many food bonuses are no more percentual.

and about making RoM better: Ferries - i.e. roads on sea. it doesn't seem like a big deal since it's just joyoos sea-tunnel mod modified - except for the graphics. for my argument why it would be a good idea and not break anything look in this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8758506#post8758506

 

[Afforess]

What about you could capture slaves. ie. defeating military units/capture them from cities. +1 gold more (so +2 gold total) or + 1 resource more per plantations. Increases national rebelliouness (Slaves from different cultures..) but Increases local rebelliouness if lots of slaves, but if there are few slaves (should be seen in culture meter) it decreases rebelliouness. Like if 5% of the population is slaves, the 95% is happy, but if 50% are slaves (like in ancient rome) then it should rapidly rise the rebelliouness. There should be civil wars from slavery.

I like the idea of nationality being a big factor, so I boosted nationality revolution modifier a bit, and lowered the the nation-wide one. As for plantations earning more, If you are referring to the USA's history of slavery, It's a relatively small blip on the world-wide stage.

+10% commerce would be nice (+5% to what you said), and +2 unhealthiness. +15% production for buildings/ships/wonders/vechicles (Until Industrial era, when more machines came) And when liberalism has been invented, it could add +x (x = how many civs know liberalism) and with liberal civs there could be - diplo points. Statue of Liberty would grant unhappiness.

Can't believe I forgot about a bonus. I added a 15% boost.

@Afforess: you nerfed slavery civic quite harshly. i admit it was a bit overpowered before but with that hard cut in city growth it's very far from being OP now. i'm not sure it'll be even a choice for me now since my primary strength of my empire were super sized cities with huge + and income... especially because many food bonuses are no more percentual.

Really, the RoM 2.81 Slavery is generally considered the worst civic in the game. I think most people will disagree with you here...

and about making RoM better: Ferries - i.e. roads on sea. it doesn't seem like a big deal since it's just joyoos sea-tunnel mod modified - except for the graphics. for my argument why it would be a good idea and not break anything look in this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8758506#post8758506

There are already ferries in the game, but they go by the name "galley".

 

[CivEikka]

If you are referring to the USA's history of slavery, It's a relatively small blip on the world-wide stage.
I added a 15% boost.

Well yeah.. But I think It should go every resource (like if mines have resource, +1 commerce there) As the slaves work for no payment = more money. No regular mines should have +1commerce, for balance.

How about the slave capturing, what's your option? I think it needs some heavy changes.. but Like capturing settlers, they turn to workers, so how about captured military units = slaves if slavery enabled. (like in ancient (Greece, Egypt, Rome etc..), to modern age (Stalin, Hitler... Used slavery for production) (You could use them to rush buildings, like engineer/merchant, but they leave some culture and it (the culture) MAY grow (if used lots of slaves) or it may not grow (if they are all killed, like in ww2 work camps in siberia.)

Work camps with fascsim civic (Like ww2 Stalin/Hitler) could grant more prod + unhappiness. How about death camps, would those fit in RoM? Such disgusting buildings should be in this game, for realism. (They could be huge -war weariness and culture eliminator, though it is disgusting IMHO. (Would that make this mod illegal in germany and france?)

Sorry for my bad english, hope you can read this (and understand. ).

 

[JosEPh_II]

1. * Cultural Levels are 20% harder to get.
2. * Two New Economic Civics, Guilds and Coinage
3. * The civic slavery has been completely re-written (see below)
4. * The Butchery and Fisherman hut now give a static +1 per resource instead of +5%.
5. * The Artesian well now gives a static +3
6. * The Cannery now gives a static +1 or instead of using % modifiers.

#1. I Totally disagree with. Cultural Victory has been hacked at since RoM started back in version 0.8. City flipping by culture is getting to be non existent in the current versions of RoM and AND. And if you use the Fixed Borders Mod (I don't anymore) Cultural acquisition of tiles and cities got kicked back to the stone age.

#2. That would be Good.

#3. About time!

#4 They become more specialized and so that frozen tundra/ice city better have a usable resource besides a Mineral or a river or they will never grow. Hmm....... What about a boost to compensate for the loss?

#5. That's a good decision. That way when artesian becomes obsolete the letdown is not so bad.

#6. No opinion of this one yet.

JosEPh

 

[Killtech]

Really, the RoM 2.81 Slavery is generally considered the worst civic in the game. I think most people will disagree with you here...

hmm... really? it's everything else than bad if you concentrate on it's strengths. the no penalty on trade routs is a big advantage and the overall production bonus is extreme if you already have some grown cities... and in addition slave markets increas gold bonus. so with the right techs already researched slavery easily allows you become number one civ in hammers (so you have cities that have nothing left to produce despite generalstaffs early buildings) and after a hort time you out-tech everyone else. but with this changes made i doubt i'll be able to make it on deity difficulty anymore.

There are already ferries in the game, but they go by the name "galley".

exactly. but like i wrote in my post there is nasty amount of micro-managment related with it: if you have to connect an isle with that kind of ferry and have to ship missionaries, units and thousends of caravans over one coast sea tile you find it very annoying that there is no raod over sea like connection until sea-tunnel. therefore the galley shoud build the ferry (become stationed on that tile) which just works like the sea tunnel. and btw it solves the problem damunzy has (see link i originally posted).

EDIT:

3. * The civic slavery has been completely re-written (see below)

#3. About time!

JosEPh

huch? where does this bad attitude to slavery come form - except form being immoral, i know? i find it really great now (the civics bonuses, not the idology) but it'll be useless after the change i suppose.

 

[Afforess]

#1. I Totally disagree with. Cultural Victory has been hacked at since RoM started back in version 0.8. City flipping by culture is getting to be non existent in the current versions of RoM and AND. And if you use the Fixed Borders Mod (I don't anymore) Cultural acquisition of tiles and cities got kicked back to the stone age.

City flipping is broken because of RevDCM. I believe they disabled it so that cities revolt in revolutions instead.

#4 They become more specialized and so that frozen tundra/ice city better have a usable resource besides a Mineral or a river or they will never grow. Hmm....... What about a boost to compensate for the loss?

I'm afraid that I've already caused a gold imbalance. I need more playtesting to be sure, but...
I may make them built faster with bourgeois though...

#5. That's a good decision. That way when artesian becomes obsolete the letdown is not so bad.

Yeah, I've had games where I purposely avoided that tech as long as it was possible to.

Thanks for the input.

hmm... really? it's everything else than bad if you concentrate on it's strengths. the no penalty on trade routs is a big advantage and the overall production bonus is extreme if you already have some grown cities... and in addition slave markets increas gold bonus. so with the right techs already researched slavery easily allows you become number one civ in hammers (so you have cities that have nothing left to produce despite generalstaffs early buildings) and after a hort time you out-tech everyone else. but with this changes made i doubt i'll be able to make it on deity difficulty anymore.

So... really, what you're saying is that you were using the happiness imbalance to your advantage and making your cities huge. Well, I'm glad I've fixed that too then.

exactly. but like i wrote in my post there is nasty amount of micro-managment related with it: if you have to connect an isle with that kind of ferry and have to ship missionaries, units and thousends of caravans over one coast sea tile you find it very annoying that there is no raod over sea like connection until sea-tunnel. therefore the galley shoud build the ferry (become stationed on that tile) which just works like the sea tunnel. and btw it solves the problem damunzy has (see link i originally posted).

I am actually not against making a ferry, I simply lack the graphics for it. If someone has seen or can make graphics for it, I'll add it.

huch? where does this bad attitude to slavery come form - except form being immoral, i know? i find it really great now (the civics bonuses, not the idology) but it'll be useless after the change i suppose.

You think it's great, because you're gaming the system. I aim to fix that.

 

[Afforess]

Also, I found that the biggest cause of the RoM Happiness and Healthiness imbalance is from buildings & resources. Tons of buildings gave extra happiness and healthiness from resources, when the resources themselves already gave happiness and healthiness. I removed a lot of these (I made up for a bunch of them in the form of new gold boosts), and I found that happiness and healthiness was back to sane levels, for the most part. I am still playtesting though...

 

[JosEPh_II]

City flipping is broken because of RevDCM. I believe they disabled it so that cities revolt in revolutions instead.

But if you Don't use REV (like me), it's getting hard to acquire tiles and neighboring AI cities thru Culture. Don't take it away from those of us that use it and don't use REV.

@killtech

You answered your own question didn't you to my "About time!" statement.

#5 Me too. I used to use Artesian asap but with the last few version I've started shying away from it.

JosEPh

 

[Killtech]

Also, I found that the biggest cause of the RoM Happiness and Healthiness imbalance is from buildings & resources. Tons of buildings gave extra happiness and healthiness from resources, when the resources themselves already gave happiness and healthiness. I removed a lot of these (I made up for a bunch of them in the form of new gold boosts), and I found that happiness and healthiness was back to sane levels, for the most part. I am still playtesting though...

Ahh, this is very good news. my expirience in a current game is that both health and happyness aspects were not relevant anymore. So computer players will profit again from their difficulty bonus while i have to plan a bit more.

I am actually not against making a ferry, I simply lack the graphics for it. If someone has seen or can make graphics for it, I'll add it.

I though about making it look like ship routes on maps are usually drawn i.e. dashed blue lines. this could be done by retexturing one of the roads. in addition placing a scaled down galley in the middle of the tile. so it would be mostly reutilizig existing graphics. i just don't know how to modify these nif files.

@killtech
You answered your own question didn't you to my "About time!" statement.

Well, now i'm confuesed. it was considered bad because it was too good?? i feel a bit out of the loop.

 

[konradcabral]

Also, I found that the biggest cause of the RoM Happiness and Healthiness imbalance is from buildings & resources. Tons of buildings gave extra happiness and healthiness from resources, when the resources themselves already gave happiness and healthiness. I removed a lot of these (I made up for a bunch of them in the form of new gold boosts), and I found that happiness and healthiness was back to sane levels, for the most part. I am still playtesting though...

But isn't the gold itself in some cases in insane levels? I'd nerfe them too, for instance the Grocer and the Market (since bank went down 50% -> 30%).