Better Tech Tree

[Corossol]

Hi!

this is the home thread of my first Civ5 mod, Better Tech Tree. This mod re-arranges the existing techs, buildings and units in a more historically realistic and elegant way. If you never really saw Trapping as an advanced concept necessary to Civil Service, nor Chivalry as the missing link between Currency and Banking then you may enjoy this mod.

The mod can be downloaded from this post or from the in-game database, so please give it a try and let me know what you think!

Changelog:
V.7 (Mar 14, 2011)

Spoiler :

- Adjusted tech costs to match changes in 1.0.1.217
- Granted Trapping to new DLC civ (Polynesia)

- Currency requires Bronze Working
- Mathematics requires Masonry
- Calendar requires Mathematics
- Construction requires Mathematics
- Theology requires Philosophy and Construction
- Civil Service requires Calendar and Construction
- Engineering requires Mathematics, Iron Working and Currency
- Optics requires Engineering
- Education requires Civil Service and Engineering
- Machinery requires Engineering and Metal Casting
- Metallurgy requires Steel, Gunpowder and Chivalry
- Military Science requires Metallurgy and Navigation
- Rifling requires Military Science
- Repleaceable Parts require Rifling and Economics

- Heroic Epic requires Philosophy
- Hanging Gardens requires Mathematics
- Great Wall and Aqueduct require Construction
- Castle requires Theology
- Himeji Castle requires Civil Service
- Seaport requires Navigation
- Kremlin requires Military Science
- National Treasury requires Banking
- National College requires Scientific Theory
- Big Ben requires Physics
- Ironworks requires Steam Power

- Trireme requires Mathematics
- Frigate requires Military Science
- Cavalry requires Repleaceable Parts
- Infantry requires Combustion
- Artillery requires Telegraph
- Battleship requires Flight

- Catapult is obsolete with Machinery
- Trebuchet and Knight are obsolete with Metallurgy
- Cannon is obsolete with Telegraph
- Rifleman is obsolete with Combustion
- Frigate and Ironclad are obsolete with Flight
- Lancer and Cavalry are obsolete with Rocketry

- Terrace Farm requires Masonry
- Trading Post requires Currency
- Embarkation requires Sailing
- Defensive Embarkation requires Gunpowder
- Defensive Pacts require Military Science
- Forts, bridges and faster Road movement require Engineering
- Camp and Trading Post yield improvement requires Banking
- Lumber Mill yield improvement requires Steam Power
- Mine and Quarry yield improvement requires Dynamite

V.5 (Jan 3, 2011)

Spoiler :

- Moved Emarking ability to Compass to restore gradual exploration.
- Moved Defensive Embarking promotion to Navigation.
- Moved Faster Road Movement from Engineering to Construction.
- Moved Forts from Construction to Iron Working.
- Moved Great Wall from Construction to Civil Service.
- Moved Inca Terrace Farms from Construction to Agriculture.
- Granted Trapping at start to DLC civs (Spain and Inca).

V.4 (Dec 1, 2010)

Spoiler :

- Fixed Embarking ability so it is granted at Sailing.
- Granted Trapping at start to DLC civs (Mongolia and Babylon).

V.2 (Nov 11, 2010)

Spoiler :

Fixed Sailing/Compass/Navigation GS exploit by having Compass require Machinery and shuffling the other maritime techs a bit.

V.1 (Nov 8, 2010)

Spoiler :

(This list covers the build requirement changes, not the tech re-ordering)
- Agriculture enables Stonhenge
- Trapping (researched at the start) reveals Horses
- Pottery enables Trading Post
- Writing enables Temple and The Oracle
- Philosophy enables Library, Great Library and National Epic
- Masonry enables Hanging Gardens
- Sailing enables Harbor and embarking
- Calendar enables Garden, Chichen Itza and Machu Pichu
- Construction enables the Great Lighthouse and Forts
- Theology enables Notre Dame
- Civil Service enables Courthouse and Forbidden Palance
- Metal Casting enables the Colossus
- Machinery enables Watermill, Windmill, Lumbermill and Trebuchet
- Optics enables Lighthouse
- Acoustics enables the Porcelain Tower
- Physics enables National College
- Chemistry reveals Coal
- Metallurgy enables Cannon
- Navigation enables Caravel and ocean embarking
- Engineering (between Metallurgy/Navigation and Military Tradition) enables Seaport, Kremlin, Big Ben, Frigate and faster road movement
- Economics enables Stock Exchange
- Railroad enables Ironworks and Artillery
- Dynamite enables Arsenal
- Replaceable Parts enables Factory and Military Base
- Combustion enables Well
- Telegraph enables Statue of Liberty
- Radio enables Cristo Redentor and Anti-Tank Gun
- Radar enables Destroyer, Carrier and Offshore Platform
- Rocketry enables Tank, Battleship and Submarine
- Refrigeration enables Hydro Plant
- Electronics enables Pentagon
- Computers enables Research Lab
- Lasers enables SS Cockpit
- Satellites enables Apollo Program, Gunship, Jet Fighter and Mobile SAM
- Plastics enables Mechanized Infantry
- Advanced Ballistics enables Modern Armor, Rocket Artillery, Missile Cruiser and Nuclear Submarine
- Nuclear Fusion enables SS Booster
- Future Tech enables GDR

Screenshots:

Spoiler :

 

[Seek]

Looks cool! It seems like you have pretty drastically changed the unlocks that techs give in addition to the tech tree order. I would love it if you outlined the changes in your first post so that I or anyone else interested could see and evaluate the changes without having to download, install and start a new game to see them. Nothing fancy, just simple text would be great (maybe something like this page).
Thanks

 

[a barbarian]

Some good ideas but you have to make sure that beelining with Great Scientists (or with some luck from research agreements) isn't too easy.

For example in your tech tree, with 2 GS you can go straight from Ancient Era to the Renaissance Era by using them for Compass and Navigation . Entering a new era for example gives you the possibility to choose new Social Policies and raises the City State benefits.

 

[Corossol]

Good points there. I'll make some adjustments to fix the beelinings and publish a summary. Thanks for your comments!

 

[Mannu]

I think the tech tree could stand some tinkering, but I don't know how much more realistic this is. The Wheel before Horseback Riding? Horseback Riding requires Bronze Working? Writing before Calendar?

 

[a barbarian]

The Wheel before Horseback Riding?

That's actually historically correct since horses were first used to pull carts. And the worlds first military superpowers arose with the invention of chariots and the composite bow. Only later humans mastered horse back riding and did away with the carriage.

 

[Mannu]

That's actually historically correct since horses were first used to pull carts. And the worlds first military superpowers arose with the invention of chariots and the composite bow. Only later humans mastered horse back riding and did away with the carriage.

I'll grant that horseback riding as a means for warfare (mounted units) came about after chariots. I didn't know that so thanks for correcting me!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_of_the_horse

 

[Corossol]

Version 2 is available! See first post for changes and screenshots.

 

[Dünamünde]

Not to instantly be the spoiler, but one thing that immediately threw me off is fertilizer being in the modern era... It should be in Industrial era. But overall I like it!

 

[Dünamünde]

Also, I know this is off topic kind of, but how about a discovery of "Green House" ? Maybe this could be a worker's ability to increase tundra's or desert food output?

 

[killmeplease]

I like this new tree, it looks much more sensible.

 

[Eduardo Dacal]

I liked it.

Can you tell me how can do it?

I'd like to work on my own tech tree. Is that possible to add techs??

 

[Corossol]

Thanks for the comments!

Dünamünde: Fertilizer is one of those techs that can go in many places depending on how you look at it. Take Steel for example: are we talking about the first steel swords, or industrial mass production? For Fertilizer I put it after Combustion because the alternatives didn't quite work out for me and I kept in mind the saying: "modern agriculture is the use of land to turn petroleum into food".

Eduardo: changing or adding techs is not too difficult. In the attached .rar file you will find Technologies.sql which contains all my changes, you should be able to get the idea from there especially if you happen to know SQL. There's many modding guides out there such as Kael's to get you started.

 

[a barbarian]

For Fertilizer I put it after Combustion because the alternatives didn't quite work out for me and I kept in mind the saying: "modern agriculture is the use of land to turn petroleum into food".

Exactly. The synthetically produced fertilizer provided a big boost to the agricultural productivity which only happened in the industrial/modern age. Placing it into the middles ages like Civ V does, doesn't make much sense since the use of fertilizer from animals/plants is essentially as old as agriculture itself.

 

[Gedrin]

I am impressed with this mod.

Finally... no airplanes without combustion [that one was my favorite example of the lack of rational thought originally put into the tech tree]

Also totally agree on the Fertilizer thing as a specific example of how some techs can go many places depending on how you look at it.

Sure Horse poop is a fertilizer... but you could always edit the sql to change the name to "industrial strength fertilizer"... I'll pass, but you could

 

[PinkRose]

A problem I've had that I finally figured out.
Units don't embark when you gain Sailing.
That's a big problem.
It appears that you gain embark at Compass ("Faster embarked movement" it says).

Can someone confirm that?

 

[Corossol]

I moved embarking from Optics to Sailing so normally it should work with Sailing. I believe a unit's ability to embark only kicks off once it moves into your own territory. Could this be the problem in your case? If it's not I'll need to investigate further.

 

[PinkRose]

Nope.
All civilian units get embark at sailing, but all military units don't get it until Optics. (I said Compass, but I meant Optics. Double-checked this morning.)
I tried:
Building new units.
Moving units into my territory.
Moving them out and back in.
Moving them to the Capital and back out.

Only when I hit Optics did I get embark for military units.

 

[rhammer640]

does the rearranging of the tech tree effect other mods that change the individual techs such as adding things to techs or changing costs, etc? I use thal's balance mods, the economy mod and city state diplomacy and all three make additions to certain techs and id like to check yours out. Also i've been meaning to ask this a couple times and a maybe someone here can help but if i have to load two mods in a certain order because one overwrites some changes in the other do i do that by installing them in that order or just by checking the green check marks in game in the right order. Sorry for the somewhat noob question.

Thanks

 

[Corossol]

PinkRose: I think I found the bug with Embarking, I'll test a fix for the next version.

rhammer640: That's a good question actually, I'm not sure of the load order for multiple mods. As for compatibility it's a case-by-case scenario. BTT should technically be compatible with other mods that add things to techs without re-ordering them, but if loaded last it will override data such as tech costs, etc. Also the re-ordering could break balance if say, a mod adds Classical stuff to Engineering which is a Renaissance tech in my version.