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Beyond Earth has many failings

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by CraigMak, Oct 30, 2014.

  1. CraigMak

    CraigMak The Borg

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    Alright, I have been playing BE for some time and learned quite a bit about the game. It seems that Firaxis has really done a goo job of screwing this one up really bad.

    This game has been made far more luck based than Civ 5. Early quests and pods are incredibly powerful and pure luck. I had one game where I got 2 free purity points from quests. That is absolutely ridiculous. Hello gunners taking cities in 4 hits then combat suits vs gunners and marines... horrible mechanic here

    Outposts just sprout up right when you're about to settle. Horrible luck based mechanic which can literally ruin your start. Suddenly you need to make soldiers to take out this crappy outpost that's in the way.

    The aliens are completely stupid and far less of a menace than barbs.

    The AI is abysmal. Beating this game on the highest difficulty your first time through not difficult.

    Loads of features are blatantly missing from the game compared to BNW. Multiplayer is an absolute train wreck. It can take 6 tries to get a game going without crashing on load.

    Trade routes are mega powerful, wonders are mostly garbage.

    Affinity is the single most important thing in the game and you can get it for free from quests.. OK then... You find yourself teching completely useless techs to get affinity points because affinity is what gives you your best units. If you don't get free affinity points from quests you can find yourself 30 - 40 turns behind another player in terms of military units. Did I mention that getting these super powerful free affinity points is pure luck?

    Going tall is pointless, the health system is a joke, just make tons of cities and get up trade routes everywhere, they will all be massive in no time.

    3 slavs in a 3v3 for 3 free techs anyone?? Wow, dumb

    It is quite obvious which starting benefits are best. Just get them.

    Titanium is crazy OP, 5 hammers for real right off the bat?

    Prosperity is clearly the best virtue tree going anything else will nerf you. 10% growth, free setter, free worker, worker efficiency, loads of health, border growth all wrapped into one package. Craziness. The only thing that can compare is might only because it gives a free affinity point. Affinity is the most important thing in the game....

    CRASH CRASH FREEZE DROP CRASH FREEZE DROP Well there goes 3 hours of my life...

    It is hard to see how this game can be made on par with BNW mainly because core mechanics are completely wrong. The luck factor is MASSIVE in this game compared to Civ 5.

    No demographics?? Why? That made the game strategic.

    If I continue playing this game it will only be because Civ 5 now seems stale and old in comparison to the new content. However, Civ 5 is clearly a vastly superior game at the moment in every aspect.
     
  2. Rakshasa72

    Rakshasa72 Warlord

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    Regardless, I've been having a blast playing BE.
     
  3. InfinityV

    InfinityV Chieftain

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    I've successfully completed 6 MP games no problem. The key is to have everyone add the host on Steam so the host can reinvite via join-in-progress if someone does drop.

    Stations start out with 16 strength. You should have no problem fielding 2 marines to take it out (especially since you get one for free from Build a Colonist questline)

    The game is not balanced around team games, it's balanced around FFA. So no more complaints about 3v3s.

    The other virtue trees are actually stronger. The main thing that is OP in prosperity is free colonist (just like in Civ 5), so I usually just grab the free colonist from prosperity and then never touch prosperity again.

    Demographics are in the game. Try clicking your resource/energy buttons on the top of your screen.
     
  4. Sal

    Sal Warlord

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    How could civ 5 be a vastly superior game and now seem stale in comparison?

    If you are conceding that you may continue to play BE, do you really find it so rubbish? I am enjoying it.
     
  5. Kutuzov

    Kutuzov Prince

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    The glass is half empty or the glass is half full. Both speakers are correct but they are both revealing something important about themselves.
     
  6. CraigMak

    CraigMak The Borg

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    Being stale has nothing to do with be a good or strategically balanced game. It just means that it's old and been done.

    In comparison to Civ 5 the only thing that BE has going for it is new content. Once this game has been played enough I doubt people will come back to it like they did Civ 5.

    I already see most of the highly skilled Civ 5 players ditching BE and going back to Civ 5 due to massive imbalances making the game a crap shoot as opposed to a good game that tests your skill/ability.
     
  7. Kutuzov

    Kutuzov Prince

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    Pure speculation on your part. Thanks for sharing it with us ;)

    But how many of them will return later once the first balance patch arrives? That the super-expert players can't find much to enjoy at the moment is a problem and it will get fixed. However, I am not in the super-expert category and I'm really enjoying it. ;)
     
  8. CraigMak

    CraigMak The Borg

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    #1 6 games out of how many? 20+ attempts?
    #2 The station spawns after you have wasted travel time with your settler. Now building high hammer cost units is necessary to get that settler planted further delaying settlement. I am aware how easy they are to kill. The mechanic is still horrible.
    #3 The game is not balanced period. It is massively luck based with many other aspects being completely stronger than their alternative choices. FFA is not balanced and teamers are a complete joke.
    #4 It's hard to beat the massive health bonuses of prosperity, not just the free settler, if you are going wide and going wide is the only competitive strategy at the moment. Might is decent only because it gives you a free affinity point which is massive because affinity is absurdly important.
    #5 I'll take a look. I really hope you're right.
     
  9. CraigMak

    CraigMak The Borg

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    Well I am both. I play the game for skill/balance as well as fun. I know Civ 5 in and out and in comparison this game is terrible in regard to skill/balance. Luck is currently playing too massive of a role and too many things are severely over powered compared to their alternatives.

    I have not yet abandoned BE completely but I know a lot of extremely experienced Civ players who have. Will patches and balance fixes change it? I don't know, I hope so but right now it looks like they purposefully made luck a huge factor so my hopes are not high.

    Firaxis needs to wake up and stop living in the past. Single player games are dinosaurs. Competitive multiplayer is where it's at. They need to adapt to the new world of gaming and get this franchise working in multiplayer.
     
  10. Toaae

    Toaae Rogue

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    This is laughable. I have no doubt that most Civ players are single-player only. Most Paradox players, too (Europa Universalis, Hearts of Iron, Crusader Kings). Age of Wonders, Galactic Civilizations, and all those other 4x games. Most players are single-player only.

    Want competitive multiplayer? Starcraft, LoL/DotA, the multitude of FPSs available. Not a strategy game that demands 10+ hours to complete.
     
  11. TLHeart

    TLHeart King

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    that is your opinion, there are many of us who will never play a multiplayer game again.

    I do not enjoy multiplayer games, especially turned based games as multiplayer.

    you enjoy them, fine, but don't knock those who prefer to play single, and support firaxis for providing single player games.
     
  12. Manannan

    Manannan Prince

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    Go away. If I want to play a competitive multiplayer game for a few hours I will play dota or cs or something, not a civ game. Civ is my stupid time single player game. I agree with most if not all points of the original post but keep your multiplayer shenanigans out of my single player experience.
     
  13. Resipsa

    Resipsa King

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    I actually think Industry after free settler from Prosperity is pretty good
    Wait til you have small kids that could wake up at any moment, Civ and Fallout will be your favorite games. I guess maybe you're calling me a dinosaur and if that's the case point taken.
     
  14. screamingpalm

    screamingpalm Chieftain

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    I play both, though I'd rather not have to put up with a lot of the tryhards and chuckleheads in mp gaming, there are so few games with a good enough AI (Arcen games and that's about it) to make an enjoyable strategy game- so what then is the point? I would guess that AoW 3 is mainly played sp, which is actually a bit of a shame because its mp is really outstanding. Has a Magic the Gathering sort of synergy and vibe... but that doesn't really shine through against the AI.
     
  15. prideaux

    prideaux Chieftain

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    yes but CiV is like four years old, its had two expansion packs and had a lot of patching based on a lot of feedback from players and modders. BE has only been out for a week and is only in a very small way a re-skin.

    Remember CiV wasn't exactly welcomed happily at launch but now look at it.
     
  16. Halam

    Halam Chieftain

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    Very true, it has happened with most civ launches I've have had the chance to witness in my life. Every time a new game or expansion appears, the same thing repeats itself. There is always someone who says that the game has been ruined. Personally, I like BE. Yes, it seems like a reskin but there are new features and other things that make it different. And it has something that makes me want to play it over and over again, unlike the other civs that I spent an eternity with my own empire :)
     
  17. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    Civ's strength as a franchise is its appeal to single players. The OP as a multiplayer only gamer wants boring lack of randomness and adventure so he has a "level playing field." There are dozens of multiplayer games, thousands of you count non-electronic games, so the OP can go play something else if he wants a totally level playing field. Chess comes to mind for that.

    As a parent and by necessity solo gamer only, the Civ franchise is my only gaming haven. I like replayability, and BE is doing a good job giving the feeling of taming or adapting to a wild unknown alien planet as best you can. Each game I've queued up has been very different in flavor. Randomness for the single player experience is a great thing for freshness and replayability.

    I'm sure there are modders who will come up with things to please multiplayers and others desiring different things. Just be patient and enjoy the game. If you can't enjoy it, just stop playing until base game and mods evolve and please leave the rest of us to enjoy it. Be happy!
     
  18. Halbbruder

    Halbbruder Prince

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    The game is nowhere near luck-based compared to civ 4. And that's the whole idea about quests. Only thing ridiculous here is your complaint.

    Then destroy them.

    What do you expect from a bunch of alien creatures following basic primal instincts?

    AI does need work but it's no easy feat.

    Examples? Other than multiplayer.


    So?

    True.

    Getting free affinity points from ruins is a part of the whole civ goody hut tradition. It's always luck-based. Your next point?

    Going tall can still be viable using internal trade routes. Health system is better than civ 5 and at least gives military civs some room to fight. Civ 5 happiness system was a greater joke. Imagine that system in civbe, then I'd agree with you on health in this game/


    What?


    5 hammers does from titanium does seem a bit much, I agree. Cut it by 1 and it'd be fine.


    Prosperity is indeed the most outstanding virtue but industry is also pretty good and might is rather decent. Knowledge virtue needs some work and I cannot believe it got nerfed before release. If you look at civ 5 BNW, you'll notice that tradition is the best tree just about the entire time while in civbe, at least there's a choice between prosperity and industry. And maybe might.

    Get a better computer then. It isn't the game's fault. I'm running this on the lowest settings and I haven't crashed at all...or at least so far.


    You are entitled to your opinion but don't assume you're correct and everyone else is wrong. The luck mechanic is greater in civ 4. In civ 5, anyone who doesn't follow tradition as starting policy and finishing it is probably shooting themselves in the foot. It's not really the case here if you don't pick prosperity.

    There is still a lot of planning involved. You send your explorers (getting more helps) out, you find ruins before anyone else does. is that luck? No, that's called planning ahead. The things you describe as luck are actually rewards for planning.

    Hmm, true.

    Apparently in civ 5, science is still broken using the scholars + bulbing exploit. In civbe, you don't have that. Early-mid game combat in civ 5 is almost non-feasible unless you are an early-game civ like the Huns. A group of ranged units (in this case composite bowmen) can hold off an entire army while that's not so easily achievable in civbe. And even if you do manage to do some conquering early game in SP, what has that achieved? Every AI would hate you and not trade with you.

    And then there's happiness penalties. Just a little bit of unhappiness can slow you down badly, unlike in civbe. You say you prefer MP which is understandable, but the players do the same thing as AI: they'll denounce you by not trading with you, by passing resolutions against you and ultimately by DoW'ing you on multiple fronts. In civbe, with the health system, you can still keep going with heaps of unhealthiness rather than be shut down by other people for being aggressive.

    There are no nukes in civbe. Orbital lasers and planet carvers are easy to prevent by putting your own satellites over your lands, especially over firaxite.

    Furthermore in civ 5, there have been no real patches to the social policy tree. As stated previously, tradition is the winning social policy tree, while liberty is a somewhat distant 2nd, honor a distant 3rd and piety an even more distant 4th in terms of starting policies. If you really think civ 5 is better than civbe, then you're ignoring this problem in civ 5 big time. When I am playing MP, every time I see someone pick tradition, I immediately think they're pro, or at least good enough in the game to know that tradition is hands down the best starting policy.

    Overall, most of your opinions of civbe are either harsh or unsubstantiated. Some changes might need to be made on affinities, but the general structure of them is good and should remain. There is no need for a radical change in that system. The only main thing I'll agree on is the need for firaxis to push towards optimizing multiplayer. However, SP should still stay.
     
  19. Janskey

    Janskey Prince

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    They finally fixed it. Tradition was also slightly nerfed.
     
  20. Gort

    Gort Emperor

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    It's still way overpowered compared to the other starting choices. I made a mod that made Liberty give literally twice as much happiness as it does by default, and people still come back to me saying Tradition gives them more of what they need to win.
     

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