Beyond the Sword ruined Civilization

[SlipperyJim]

That's why I love Civ 4 so much, it's easy to edit so you can figure out what seems worthless and fix it. It's awesome.

QFT. A little bit of hacking in your XML files can fix nearly anything that annoys you....

My personal "thing" is upgrading units. I love to keep playing with the same Warrior that started in 4000BC, only now he's an Infantryman. So I've tweaked my XML files to make upgrades less expensive and preserve more XP. I'm not saying that everyone should play that way ... but it suits me.

If there's a feature in Civ4 (Vanilla, Warlords, or BtS) that you don't like, fix it yourself. If you don't know you're way around the XML files, there are entire forums full of modders who will be happy to show you the way.

 

[con]

BTS got me back in to civ

played 2. played 3.
4. came out but i didn't like it at all, played for 10 days and it was not fun so i stopped
finally got BTS a month ago (was thinking about giving civ another try), been playing ever since and that civ feeling returned , yes it has some issues but they will fix most of them with the new patch

 

[The Foo]

You could still make love to one of BtS not-as-hot sisters.

Sir, that is not how love works.

 

[Handel]

I myself don't like changing things in the games (tweaking the XML files or whatever it may be). I prefer to play games as they are from the devs. Patched of course, but nothing unofficial. It may sound weird, but unofficial changes are kind of cheating for me. You usually remove the things you don't like and add the things you like. The AI cannot remove the things it don't like and cannot add things it likes and the AI cannot adapt when suddenly something is gone from the game or something new is added.
For example - the nukes may be removed from the game, but nevertheless the AI still will put efforts to create the prerequesites for them.

 

[Seras]

It may sound weird, but unofficial changes are kind of cheating for me. You usually remove the things you don't like and add the things you like.

well usually whatever changes you make apply to the ai civs as much as your own.....but we're not only talking game balance issues here...it can be anything from adding in a civ you like to changing unit graphics to adding a building you think would be neat. it's only cheating if you make changes that even you feel gives you an unfair advantage, 99.9% of mods do not fit under that category.

The AI cannot remove the things it don't like and cannot add things it likes and the AI cannot adapt when suddenly something is gone from the game or something new is added.
For example - the nukes may be removed from the game, but nevertheless the AI still will put efforts to create the prerequesites for them.

actually the AI engine is quite "smart" as far as adapting to changes you mod in....of course this requires smart modding as well. =)



you're free to play whatever way gives you most pleasure.....but completely disreguarding the modding possibilities of the game is a huge disservice to how much more enjoyment you could get out of the game.

 

[seasnake]

I myself don't like changing things in the games (tweaking the XML files or whatever it may be). I prefer to play games as they are from the devs. Patched of course, but nothing unofficial. It may sound weird, but unofficial changes are kind of cheating for me. You usually remove the things you don't like and add the things you like. The AI cannot remove the things it don't like and cannot add things it likes and the AI cannot adapt when suddenly something is gone from the game or something new is added.

The AI will take advantage of these changes. For instance, I find Imperialistic to be weak, so I gave Great Generals the ability to start Golden Ages. I've checked in the WB (because I was worried) and they know and are willing to use them this way.

If I wanted to cheat to make myself great I'd use the WorldBuilder, but for across the board changes the XML is perfect and I think fair. I've breathed new life into castles, duns, all kinds of buildings or things i thought sucked.

How do get rid of that worthless and bad low poly 3d-engine in Civ IV and fix that?

Changes to Civ are like changes to a board game. You have to use the dice/pieces/board they gave you, but you can change the rules and scoring system to a place that feels right to you.

 

[Handel]

The AI will take advantage of these changes. For instance, I find Imperialistic to be weak, so I gave Great Generals the ability to start Golden Ages. I've checked in the WB (because I was worried) and they know and are willing to use them this way.

If the AI really is "learning" to use the modded Generals to start Golden Ages then I take my words back. It seems the devs did nuch better job then I thought. Meaning usually the AI is nothing more then a number of pre-made patterns plus great quantity but simple calculations.

 

[azzaman333]

How do get rid of that worthless and bad low poly 3d-engine in Civ IV and fix that?

It is the 1 major flaw still remaining in Civ 4.

 

[Civinator]

It is the 1 major flaw still remaining in Civ 4.

I feared that. But thanks for the answer.

 

[Devil Inside]

Maybe I can refresh your memory with one from recent history: PtW.

i agree. biggest piece of garbage i had ever seen.
it sat on my shelf for months, while i went all vanilla on that azzzzz.

 

[frekk]

I really couldn't get into civ4 until BTS came out. I couldn't figure out the modding until Bts implemented the whole modular xml stuff. I have to be able to personalize the game, somebody else's whole mod is fine but I always want to tweak it just a little and make a custom concoction, which I couldn't do in vanilla.

 

[Iranon]

Airships feel a little off to me with their longer-than-realistic shelf life and unintuitive use. Still, to me that's nowhere near as jarring as the use of siege/artillery units as suicide attackers when in fact it should be the opposite (softening up the opponent without exposing themselves).

Espionage is something you can ignore entirely; if the AI used it with conquest rather than disruption in mind it might be a force to be reckoned with. I think having a spy caught at doing something nefarious should carry a larger diplomatic effect - somewhat alienating every other leader, giving an immediate pretext for a war etc.

While nuclear war is usually easy to avoid, I sort of think that global warming isn't implemented well.

***

My biggest complaint with BTS is that the AI tends to shoot itself in the foot with many of the new features... Excessive use of espionage that doesn't benefit them enough, and spreading corporations when it isn't in their best interest (never mind building more executives than there are cities on the planet...)

 

[Stylesjl]

Spies were one big problem, which stopped me playing Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, where spies were too insanely powerful and could win the game. And now you can't even see them. I don't mind losing in war, but I really don't like the experience of burning cities and wholly devastated landscapes by some invisible force. A field of burning cities was the problem in Civ3 that they fixed in Civ4, where spies were also moderated to mostly gather info like spies should. I take pride in conducting war with happy, healthy cities; but in BtS I can't tell if my administration is faulty or if some spy ruined me.

Also, nuclear war is like a passion in BtS, which the United Nations can't stop. In previous versions I always had to go into cheat mode, because I refuse to play with nuclear weapons. Civ4 is great, because you can make a nonnuclear resolution and everyone agrees. In Bts you get global warming and raging mushroom clouds.

The airships are another stupid invisible force. I mean, these things are big and bulky and pretty ineffective, good for surveillance, but they can't actually attack anything without getting destroyed. Even on a frigate, in real life, you would line up your marines on deck and a dirigible would be dust in minutes. Now they can destroy your navy and you never see them at all. Disgusting.

There's more in BtS that ruined Civilization for me, but I'll stop here. It's one version I will not have in my game library. Hope this review helps other Civ lovers out there.

TH

Spies are a pest, but I don't find them to be game breaking. You just need to adapt to them, plus there's nothing more fun then kicking the miserable fool who does use them on you. To counter spies I just make sure that the damage is minimised (keep cities healthy for one) and post my own spies inside the trouble spots, and counter espionage also helps.

Nuclear weapons I find are actually quite fun, in fact so fun that I have made their effects more destructive by reducing SDI intercept to 50%, quadrupling the hammer cost of SDI and doubling it for bomb shelters. Global warming is annoying though, not sure how to get rid of it

Airships can be annoying, but overall they don't bother me much, plus I tend to use them to my own advantage anyway

 

[Mat777]

I'm not agree Terry_pdx, bts is the best civ ever.

 

[Arkatsson]

Terry, if you can get 4 religions on a level above settler please tell me how, because it seems kind of hard to get 4 religions unless you are on a very easy level. Airships are pieces of crap, I built one, and I didn't want to build any more. Why break your disk? You could of sold it to a gaming store as a used copy.

Anyway, I loved Civ 3 (the Civ game I played, my first Civ, the Civ I grew up on) but could never get into Civ 4 (with Warlords BTW) but when I got BTS it improved so much! I think you should give it another chance. The game is to try (key word is try) to simulate real life, so now you know how it is to run a country... while being an immortal never aging ruler.

 

[Psyringe]

Guys, you're answering to a thread that is several months old and where the OP hasn't even logged in for weeks. Just sayin'.

 

[MarkM]

Guys, you're answering to a thread that is several months old and where the OP hasn't even logged in for weeks. Just sayin'.

Not to mention OP's comments are directed to the shipped 3.00 version & much of the inbalance issues with espionage (e.g. the 24 turn bug) has been corrected in current & future/unoficial patches. Shame he broke his dics into little pieces & threw it away, maybe he'd find it more redeeming if he reinstalled & patched it.

... although I have to say, anytime anyone posts that they have just broken the discs of a brand new (and very ebay-able) game in disgust, I figure they are being more dramatic than truthful in their reaction, so I pretty much take everythign else they say with copious grans of salt ...

Certainly the folks in the GOTM forum disagree with him, they just did a poll there and 98% of them say they want to play a BTS BOTM game, vs. maybe 60% for vanilla and 40% for warlords, in ohter words 1/3 of the players want to play ONLY BTS.

Terry, if you can get 4 religions on a level above settler please tell me how, because it seems kind of hard to get 4 religions unless you are on a very easy level.

FYI the game I am playing now I got 5 religions, on Prince (AND I did an early war & wiped out the only civ I shared continent with in a warrior rush). I didn't get first two, but beelined for Judaism later & then got the rest without a huge effort.

 

[AlessioCerci]

Yes I love BtS, I dont think I have ever liked a game more than Im liking BtS 3.13 with Bhruics patch, either stand alones or expansions, even better than any HoMM, Pz General Attack, CoH, any RTS or RPG ever!!!

I cant believe the depth of this game, if only a few things could be polished to make the game a bit more compatible with the longer lengths like Epic or Marathon, and with playing huge maps with many civs, every body knows some of the game mechanics are too stiff on such conditions, but if that could be fixed I dont think I would have a single complaint about this game.

It is so much better than Vanilla its not even funny, Firaxis made us a favor by making all this upgrades and features available on a expansion. After seeing how vastly the game has improved since Vanilla and the wonders that can be done through modding, I dont think there will be the need for a CivV until the graphics engine goes obsolete.

They could go on and on polishing and building upon this for a couple more expansion packs and I wouldnt even mind it, plus the bonus material like the inbuilt mods and scenarios make for endless replay value, not to mention the user ceated content like that on this website.

Not to mention that we already know this works, there is no need to trash this and start from scratch with a whole new game, just make it continuosly better and better, this would also diminish the withdrawal sindrome by not having to wait 3 or 4 years until a new game is developed.

The icing in the cake IMO would be that the next expansion was available as a stand alone expansion/game like adding 6 or so civs plus the ones in Vanilla, if you want the civs and leaders from Warlords and BtS, buy BtS, like that new users would probably get hooked by not having to purchase the entire series until having tried it. That would effectively discontinue Vanilla, but Firaxis doesnt seem to care since BtS already did discontinue Warlords.

This post is quite long and could potentially get longer as now I was planning on explaining what are the things I found on BtS that made it so much better than Vanilla and Warlords, and any Civ installment at the matter, but I want to see some opinions first.

(from another thread)

Each to their own i suppose.

 

[Willem]

Who bothers dragging up these old threads anyway? I never make it past the first page of the forum myself. I just figure anything beyond that is going to be old news and not worthwhile.

 

[Derek_Zoolander]

I'd love to See Civ V incorporate the automated sea traffic and sea battles as in Pirates!, and Id love to see some automated Railroads trains running land trade routes, too.

It'd be great to also have land battles similar to the Total Wars. But that would be a bit inpractical, having 20 ships facing 20 ships, trying to control them all?