Beyond the Sword ruined Civilization

Terry_pdx

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
11
Location
Portland, Oregon
Hi Civ Fanatics,

We all know that Civ4 perfected just about everything in Civilization. I have been playing since Civ1 and still go back and play Civ2 occasionally, which just has the problem with combat destroying whole stacks of units, so you can defend your cities with one or two catapults. But in Civ4 I missed some of the earlier characters, like the Ottomans, Vikings, and Carthaginians, so I came online here, where I have learned a lot of good tips, and found BtS newly released.

I bought BtS the next day and played it almost nonstop for a week, and then did what I have never done before - pulled it from the computer, crushed the disk, and threw it away. Sacrilege. But they ruined Civilization, incorporating the worst features of previous versions.

Spies were one big problem, which stopped me playing Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, where spies were too insanely powerful and could win the game. And now you can't even see them. I don't mind losing in war, but I really don't like the experience of burning cities and wholly devastated landscapes by some invisible force. A field of burning cities was the problem in Civ3 that they fixed in Civ4, where spies were also moderated to mostly gather info like spies should. I take pride in conducting war with happy, healthy cities; but in BtS I can't tell if my administration is faulty or if some spy ruined me.

Also, nuclear war is like a passion in BtS, which the United Nations can't stop. In previous versions I always had to go into cheat mode, because I refuse to play with nuclear weapons. Civ4 is great, because you can make a nonnuclear resolution and everyone agrees. In Bts you get global warming and raging mushroom clouds.

The airships are another stupid invisible force. I mean, these things are big and bulky and pretty ineffective, good for surveillance, but they can't actually attack anything without getting destroyed. Even on a frigate, in real life, you would line up your marines on deck and a dirigible would be dust in minutes. Now they can destroy your navy and you never see them at all. Disgusting.

There's more in BtS that ruined Civilization for me, but I'll stop here. It's one version I will not have in my game library. Hope this review helps other Civ lovers out there.

TH
 
Hi Civ Fanatics,

We all know that Civ4 perfected just about everything in Civilization. I have been playing since Civ1 and still go back and play Civ2 occasionally, which just has the problem with combat destroying whole stacks of units, so you can defend your cities with one or two catapults. But in Civ4 I missed some of the earlier characters, like the Ottomans, Vikings, and Carthaginians, so I came online here, where I have learned a lot of good tips, and found BtS newly released.

I bought BtS the next day and played it almost nonstop for a week, and then did what I have never done before - pulled it from the computer, crushed the disk, and threw it away. Sacrilege. But they ruined Civilization, incorporating the worst features of previous versions.

Spies were one big problem, which stopped me playing Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, where spies were too insanely powerful and could win the game. And now you can't even see them. I don't mind losing in war, but I really don't like the experience of burning cities and wholly devastated landscapes by some invisible force. A field of burning cities was the problem in Civ3 that they fixed in Civ4, where spies were also moderated to mostly gather info like spies should. I take pride in conducting war with happy, healthy cities; but in BtS I can't tell if my administration is faulty or if some spy ruined me.

Also, nuclear war is like a passion in BtS, which the United Nations can't stop. In previous versions I always had to go into cheat mode, because I refuse to play with nuclear weapons. Civ4 is great, because you can make a nonnuclear resolution and everyone agrees. In Bts you get global warming and raging mushroom clouds.

The airships are another stupid invisible force. I mean, these things are big and bulky and pretty ineffective, good for surveillance, but they can't actually attack anything without getting destroyed. Even on a frigate, in real life, you would line up your marines on deck and a dirigible would be dust in minutes. Now they can destroy your navy and you never see them at all. Disgusting.

There's more in BtS that ruined Civilization for me, but I'll stop here. It's one version I will not have in my game library. Hope this review helps other Civ lovers out there.

TH

I like the way you claim speak for everyone with your comments, and them go on to present a bunch of complaints - NONE of which I agree with. As an opposing viewpoint, I'd like to add that BTS is the best add-on pack in ANY game I have ever played - if BTS had been released as Civ5 I would not have been disappointed. I also just played a BTS game with LOTS of espionage - that did nothing to ruin the game, and it was a completely non-nuclear - game thanks to the non-proliferation treaty.

you obviously need to give it some more time IMHO. I personally think that BTS is the pinnacle of Civ, which I have also played since the beginning (ah, the halcyon Atari ST days... *sniff* I miss that ST).

~ karembeu
 
I like BTS quite a lot, and with the new patch in sight it seems to me the few issues I had with it are going to be solved. That is not to say that what I like is something everybody should like. If you don't like it for any reason, you shouldn't be playing it.
 
I guess some people can't take the heat of a new style of gameplay. If you don't like the flavor, don't drink the damn soda.
 
Spies were one big problem, which stopped me playing Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, where spies were too insanely powerful and could win the game. And now you can't even see them. I don't mind losing in war, but I really don't like the experience of burning cities and wholly devastated landscapes by some invisible force. A field of burning cities was the problem in Civ3 that they fixed in Civ4, where spies were also moderated to mostly gather info like spies should. I take pride in conducting war with happy, healthy cities; but in BtS I can't tell if my administration is faulty or if some spy ruined me.

then get the unofficial patch. Even with the AI's fanaticism for spies, though, it's hardly as bad as you describe.
Also, nuclear war is like a passion in BtS, which the United Nations can't stop. In previous versions I always had to go into cheat mode, because I refuse to play with nuclear weapons. Civ4 is great, because you can make a nonnuclear resolution and everyone agrees. In Bts you get global warming and raging mushroom clouds.

And then everyone hates you and global warming destroys you.

The airships are another stupid invisible force. I mean, these things are big and bulky and pretty ineffective, good for surveillance, but they can't actually attack anything without getting destroyed. Even on a frigate, in real life, you would line up your marines on deck and a dirigible would be dust in minutes. Now they can destroy your navy and you never see them at all. Disgusting.

Well considering that they can't possibly do more than 50% damage and cost hammers he would otherwise spend on a navy...
There's more in BtS that ruined Civilization for me, but I'll stop here. It's one version I will not have in my game library. Hope this review helps other Civ lovers out there.

Alternatively, you could adapt
 
You are right it does incorporate alot from Sids past. Does the corporation feature look familiar to anyone? There used to be alot of games from Microprose that were based on the same concept. In fact there are a ton of Tycoon game ripoffs slapped into here, along with Alpha Centauri. The thing is I loved all of those games. So when I picked up BTS it was pretty close to having everything in one package. All I'm missing is the ability to navigate my own sea battles like in Pirates. I love this addon. I haven't played Civ IV or warlords since I installed this game. Nor do I plan to in the future. I give BTS two thumbs up, and I agree 100% with the post by karembeu. :king:
 
Who hasn't gotten seriously ticked off when things don't go their way in the game? (Watch and see someone claim to this and ruin my argument :D). I usually abort a lot of my games somewhere down the line and get annoyed by the game but I always come back for more punishment! I think you just have to not take it personally and don't invest so much emotional energy in it - else, you'll go off like a mushroom cloud!
 
The Cliff notes version of OP's post:

Basically, he absolutely hates Civilization 4 because of:

Spies just getting in his way (Which, IMO, is how they are supposed to be, the real problem with Espionage as of right now is too much micromanagement!!!@!@)

He doesn't like nukes... (Personally I love nukes; the real issue is how the consequences aka global warming is implemented)

Airships (A very very very very minor issue imo, no matter how silly airships are).

I don't find that these hurt the game in a significant manner at all.

Who hasn't gotten seriously ticked off when things don't go their way in the game? (Watch and see someone claim to this and ruin my argument :D). I usually abort a lot of my games somewhere down the line and get annoyed by the game but I always come back for more punishment! I think you just have to not take it personally and don't invest so much emotional energy in it - else, you'll go off like a mushroom cloud!

If things went my way every time, then I would be bored to tears since that would mean I would win every game without a sweat. I don't know about you but I like the challenge. :D
 
Wow I personally think your "complaints" that you claim ruin the game our mostly your own fault in terms of how you play. This game did not change fundamentally from CIV and warlords.

You think they use nukes non stop now? I have never seen a nuke in my games. The AI LOVES to all vote yes to banning nukes. I want to know why yours don't .

Also gunships? They are currently a little imbalanced because the have no counter however I once again never build them...they can't even kill anything.

Spies? I rarely ever put my espionage slider past 0% and I love the info that spies collect in this game. Seeing what your enemies are researching and line of sight to cities in invaluable.


Its too bad you crushed the disk, you destroyed the best civ game to date, but your loss.
 
You are right it does incorporate alot from Sids past. Does the corporation feature look familiar to anyone? There used to be alot of games from Microprose that were based on the same concept. In fact there are a ton of Tycoon game ripoffs slapped into here, along with Alpha Centauri. The thing is I loved all of those games. So when I picked up BTS it was pretty close to having everything in one package. All I'm missing is the ability to navigate my own sea battles like in Pirates. I love this addon. I haven't played Civ IV or warlords since I installed this game. Nor do I plan to in the future. I give BTS two thumbs up, and I agree 100% with the post by karembeu. :king:

I'd love to See Civ V incorporate the automated sea traffic and sea battles as in Pirates!, and Id love to see some automated Railroads trains running land trade routes, too.
 
If you don't want Nukes, play a custom game and check the box that says "no nukes." Quite simple really and it involves no disk crushing. If you don't like not knowing whether it was your mismanagement or spies that caused unhealtiness, there 2 solutions. One, keep an eye on the espinoge warnings or two go into the city screen if there is anything such as poisoned water. Also, I havent had much of a problem with spies because I am keep a good espinoge defence. On airships, you do realize it is hard to hit something so high in the air with a rifle. Also it isn't like a few hits and an airship is down, they take a long time to deflate.
 
I have to agree with the airships being crap, and the fact that the game doesnt work properly and needs patching which always annoys me! (why cant they fix it before they bring it out?)

But other than that it is a great expansion. I love it.
 
I have to agree with the airships being crap, and the fact that the game doesnt work properly and needs patching which always annoys me! (why cant they fix it before they bring it out?)

But other than that it is a great expansion. I love it.

What's not working properly for you? (I frequent the Bugs forum so I know whats up)

What are the specs of the computer you are playing it on?
 
Been playing since Civ 1.... never posted here.... then decides to come here to post his first thread on.... *drum roll* a reputed "review" of the expansion that barely scrapes the surface and only talks about the negatives.

You might not notice Terry_pdx, but we get one of these a week. At least you can be complimented for stringing sentences together.

Aside from that, had you considered modifying the parts that you don't like? With just a little time and effort on your part, you could tweak the game to suit your own idea of perfection. That's one of the major bonuses to this game - the ability to modify it.

Changing active spy missions, removing spies and changing airships to not be able to bombard would take approximately 5 minutes. Probably less time than it took to post that. ;)
 
I also agree that BTS is a great expansion. Airships are more of an annoyance than a game breaker and for me espionage is actually really fun.
Plus, having played against the improved AI I could never go back, even if I didn't like some other feature.
 
It's a shame you crushed your disk I was going to ask if I could buy it off you, there were a few bugs on mine so I sprayed it with flyspray but it screwed up the surface and won't work anymore.
 
I'd love to See Civ V incorporate the automated sea traffic and sea battles as in Pirates!, and Id love to see some automated Railroads trains running land trade routes, too.

Here Here I'd love to see the ship traffic and land traffic even if it's only minor like in Rome Total War at the very least it would let you see if blockade is working with a visual cue.
 
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