Big Win for gun rights advocates

[JollyRoger]

On the surface, a federal appeals court’s decision in United States v. Meza-Rodriguez concerns a fairly narrow issue — whether “unauthorized non-U.S. citizens within our borders” enjoy Second Amendment gun rights. Should the Supreme Court ultimately conclude that undocumented immigrants do not enjoy these rights, however, that decision could severely harm their ability to remain free from harassment by police. Hidden just one level below the surface in Meza-Rodriguez is the question of whether “the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures,” which is protected by the Constitution’s Fourth Amendment, applies to undocumented immigrants at all.

Like the Fourth Amendment, the Second Amendment refers to a right that belongs to “the people” — “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” In Meza-Rodriguez, the Justice Department argued that an undocumented immigrant charged with violating a federal law forbidding him from possessing a firearm is not part of “the people” who benefit from this Second Amendment right. Undocumented immigrants, this argument goes, are not “members of the political community,” and thus cannot be understood as part of “the people” as those words are used in the Constitution.

If this argument ultimately prevails, it will have profound ripple effects that extend far beyond the subject of guns. As mentioned above, the Fourth Amendment also refers to a right belonging to “the people,” so if that term does not include undocumented immigrants, their rights to be free from abusive police tactics could be severely curtailed. Similarly, the First Amendment refers to “the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.” Those rights could also potentially be stripped from undocumented immigrants if the Justice Department’s arguments prevail.

In casting aside the claim that undocumented immigrants categorically are not part of “the people” protected by the various parts of the Constitution, Judge Wood’s opinion relies heavily on a previous Supreme Court decision which said that “aliens receive constitutional protections when they have come within the territory of the United States and developed substantial connections with this country.” The defendant in Meza-Rodriguez lived in the United States for years, attended public schools and “developed close relationships with family members and other acquaintances” in the United States and worked in this country. According to the Seventh Circuit, that was more than enough to establish the kind of “substantial connections” to the United States necessary to bring him under the Constitution’s umbrella.

In other cases, where a state and not the federal government finds itself pitted against an undocumented immigrant, the immigrant will have another powerful argument that they can deploy against attempts to limit their constitutional rights. The Supreme Court has held that various protections in the Bill of Rights, including the Second and Fourth Amendment, are also implicit in the Fourteenth Amendment, which forbids states from depriving “any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.”

The relevant language in the Fourteenth Amendment refers to “any person,” so state lawyers attempting to strip rights from undocumented immigrants are in the awkward position of claiming that immigrants who are not lawfully present in the United States are not people.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/08/21/3693788/gun-rights-win-a-major-victory-in-federal-court-and-thats-actually-a-good-thing/

Typical Obama - trying to rob the people of their 2nd Amendment Rights. I also believe he is responsible for disabling tags.

 

[mrt144]

JR, you are the patron saint of playing with expectations.

 

[Farm Boy]

JR, you are the patron saint of playing with expectations.

Only because our two major mainstream political flavors eschew political principles in favor of self aggrandizement and selective malice.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

As someone who is in favor of both second amendment rights and more open borders, I'm a fan of judge Woods' decision. Good job, judge!

 

[El_Machinae]

If non-citizens count as 'the people', wouldn't that then make efforts to prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons illegal if it's the government pursuing such efforts?

What gives them the ability to proactively disarm people, if the 2A says that people have the right to bear arms?

 

[warpus]

"The people" seems to refer to citizens and:

“aliens receive constitutional protections when they have come within the territory of the United States and developed substantial connections with this country.”

 

[Wolfbeckett]

If non-citizens count as 'the people', wouldn't that then make efforts to prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons illegal if it's the government pursuing such efforts?

What gives them the ability to proactively disarm people, if the 2A says that people have the right to bear arms?

No, because even by the most liberal readings of the law imaginable, it would still only apply to people that are actually in the United States. Unless Iran petitions to be the 51st state I think the government can safely keep up it's efforts on that front.

 

[El_Machinae]

Or unless Iranians try to bring a nuke into the US, I guess!

 

[Bugfatty300]

I've heard that Iranians are buying nukes at US gun shows and smuggling them back.

 

[JollyRoger]

The nuke show loophole needs to be closed.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

The distinction between the legal and colloquial meanings of "personhood", huh?

 

[Farm Boy]

Interesting to see the general groups flip flop, eh?

 

[Formaldehyde]

As Larry Wilmore pointed out on the Nightly Show, can you imagine what would have happened if a bunch of blacks had shown up with assault weapons and bulletproof vests like the Oath Keepers did?

 

[Zkribbler]

I understand now.
Corporations are people.
People aren't.

 

[IglooDame]

As someone who is in favor of both second amendment rights and more open borders, I'm a fan of judge Woods' decision. Good job, judge!

I'm not precisely a fan of open borders, but I am a fan of the broadest possible reading of the Bill of Rights. So, yes, good job, Judge Woods!!

 

[Formaldehyde]

The good news here is that "people" in the Constitution actually does mean "people", at least until the Supreme Court weighs in.

The bad news is that the killings of unarmed Hispanics, and those who can be mistaken to be Hispanics, by police will likely go up out of fear that the person is an armed "illegal alien".

The good news for gun show vendors is that sales will slightly increase as the demand for throw downs increases.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

Right, I said more open border, I think immigration needs to be made easier but we can't just straight open or we'll become a dumping ground for the rest of the world's drug addicts and hobos. But the path needs to be made much easier for those who want to come here and contribute.

But I'm one of those craaaaaaaazy people who are very pro gun rights even though I myself have never owned a gun in my life, so what do I know?

 

[Formaldehyde]

What makes you think "drug addicts and bozos" would want to come to such an authoritarian country with such a meager and draconian welfare system? One where they would likely spend much of their rest of their lives destitute and/or in prison?

You just apparently forgot to mention rapists.

 

[jackelgull]

Non-Americans aren't really experienced with the screwed up legal system of the US. They might not know the consequences of being a drug addict in this country.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

I said hobos, not bozos . Many of whom DO get themselves deliberately arrested so that they can get some free meals and a bed. That comment was mostly tongue in cheek though, I was just trying to convey that we have to have SOME standards, we have to make sure that the people immigrating are doing so because they want to contribute to our great nation, not because our welfare social net is better than where they are currently. I tend to think most immigrants do want to contribute though so I want it to be easy for them.