BirdNES 2: Forge of Empires -- The Animas Valley

[Angst]

OOC: No horses = no light cavalry. That will be a benefit for me, I think. alex, I thought you were epic and insane at NESing, but I've read your posts, and you keep on saying you're afraid of North King and the remaining ones... Are you joking or not? xD

 

[Angst]

The bigger picture is obscured from your on purpose. The best game strategy is to work with the "world you know" and not what you want it to be. My OTL example was an attempt to explain to LM why there are no horses in the Animas and give an example from RL how such a thing can happen.

I can assure you that Inowe is not just a simple transposed RL arrangement. There is a plan and it will unfold. The world is such that those of you who long to lead raging hordes of barbarians can do so, but you might, for the time being, have to think differently about how that could be done without horses. Offense, defense, fortifications, tactics all change when horses become elephants. If such things are beyond you, then stick with infantry.

And sorry for the crap orders and stuff birdjaguar

 

[alex994]

OOC: No horses = no light cavalry. That will be a benefit for me, I think. alex, I thought you were epic and insane at NESing, but I've read your posts, and you keep on saying you're afraid of North King and the remaining ones... Are you joking or not? xD

OOC: Well lord_joakim you'll just have to find out won't you? And what made you think I'm epic and insane?

 

[Angst]

OOC: alex994, you've just officially scared my butt out of my body.

Sorry for spam, bj. I'll shut up.

 

[das]

The bigger picture is obscured from your on purpose. The best game strategy is to work with the "world you know" and not what you want it to be.

I don't mind, it's just that some initial assumptions are made.

...also, I still can't for the life of me figure out how are we going to combine chariots with elephants. If it were only the tactics I wouldn't mind much, but this also vitally affects the social structure (admittedly in a way that actually benefits my plans; I thought I set myself up for a bigger long-term challenge, but you went and made things much easier in that regard).

alex, I thought you were epic and insane at NESing, but I've read your posts, and you keep on saying you're afraid of North King and the remaining ones... Are you joking or not? xD

He's an enigma. He's probably just pretending to be afraid, but possibly he is genuinely afraid, or perhaps he's just trying to scare himself into a state of permanent paranoia. Or something else; or everything at once. I really can't figure it out.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I don't mind, it's just that some initial assumptions are made.

...also, I still can't for the life of me figure out how are we going to combine chariots with elephants. If it were only the tactics I wouldn't mind much, but this also vitally affects the social structure (admittedly in a way that actually benefits my plans; I thought I set myself up for a bigger long-term challenge, but you went and made things much easier in that regard).

Yes I realize that assumptions were made and I could have proofed my original stat posts better to not add to the confusion that is usually present in a new NES, but I was very rushed.

And yes chariots and elelphants seem an odd mix, but if one were to change one's image of how to use the chariot or what its battlefield purpose was, perhaps....

 

[das]

Having Googled "Elephant Chariot" I've found this picture:



I don't think that it would work for humans, though. So, it would probably have to be either an onager chariot or just an ordinary war elephant (with a howdah on the back).

 

[Birdjaguar]

Could elephants push a "war vehicle" rather than pull it? Or "pull" it from the back?

 

[das]

Thought about it. I'm afraid they'll either move too slowly or just charge forward and rip it apart, and even then to regulate it you will need a rider on the elephant itself, making the vehicle sort of redundant. So you might as well just have a plain old war elephant.

Also, what is it supposed to push the chariot with, exactly?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Thought about it. I'm afraid they'll either move too slowly or just charge forward and rip it apart, and even then to regulate it you will need a rider on the elephant itself, making the vehicle sort of redundant. So you might as well just have a plain old war elephant.

Also, what is it supposed to push the chariot with, exactly?

Plain old war elephants are certainly an option, but they are vunerable as they do their thrashing about and trampling.

Think rear wheel drive. If the vehicle tongue was at the back, and the elephants harnessed there, they could push the "vehicle" into infantry, against a wall, etc. and be more protected from attack. As soon as "battlefield formation" becomes important (as it probably will), ways of disrupting it will also become important. Size and strength are the assets of elephants, not speed and endurance as with horses.

Armies at this point in the game are very primative and little more than armed mobs. The value of elephants may not be fully useable...yet. As will be seen, some of you have worked to improve your armies, and others have worked to improve economies or culture. The new army index scores will reveal some of the differences in spending.

 

[das]

If the vehicle tongue was at the back, and the elephants harnessed there, they could push the "vehicle" into infantry, against a wall, etc. and be more protected from attack

No, I still don't see it. I don't quite understand how is an elephant supposed to push a vehicle in a militarily-efficient way, and I imagine that it will be very uncomfortable for the people inside a vehicle. Why not just have a war elephant with a battering ram, in that case?

 

[Birdjaguar]

No, I still don't see it. I don't quite understand how is an elephant supposed to push a vehicle in a militarily-efficient way, and I imagine that it will be very uncomfortable for the people inside a vehicle. Why not just have a war elephant with a battering ram, in that case?

What if the vehicle was more of a platform just high enough to put its men out of reach of typical infantry weapons. It could be big enough to hold a dozen or more men and be pushed by one or more animals. It would only have to move at the speed of infantry and would roll over or push aside those in front.

Of course, using elephants in a tradtional manner is very viable. Battlefield victory is usually decided by the particular tactics used at the point of contact. My goal is to encourage non traditional thinking.

 

[das]

Personally I'm sort of reminded of NK's elephant tanks from one of Azale's NESes.

 

[North King]

Personally I'm sort of reminded of NK's elephant tanks from one of Azale's NESes.

The idea there was by completely surrounding the elephants in the tank, you'd avoid them getting panicked by the battle. That was the theory, anyway. In retrospect, several years later, I don't know how well it would work.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Here's another golden elephant chariot, if anyone needs inspiration...

 

[Luckymoose]

My men hide in the anus of elephants and pop out when we are inside enemy camps.

 

[das]

I think the main problem is that Hindu gods are as big as they want to be (not sure; it's either that or they're bigger than humans by default anyway, probably depends on the exact version). Unless we want to use midget elephants or somesuch.

 

[alex994]

He's an enigma. He's probably just pretending to be afraid, but possibly he is genuinely afraid, or perhaps he's just trying to scare himself into a state of permanent paranoia. Or something else; or everything at once. I really can't figure it out.

Perhaps

I'll like to propose the idea of artificial selection that while I may not know much about elephants, I do know that we humans chose some breeds of dogs and plants over others; would it be impossible to do the same with elephants to have them become smaller than an Indian elephant but larger than a horse?

 

[Lord_Iggy]

I think that's certainly rational. Look at how horses have gotten larger over the years.

 

[North King]

Why would someone without the foreknowledge of chariots or horses decide to breed an elephant to be smaller?