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Bismark is OP on marathon

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by omnishakira, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. omnishakira

    omnishakira Warlord

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    Hello

    I lurk this forum once in a while and I noticed a lot of hate toward bismarck. People seem to think bismarck is among the weak civilizations. Ive never understood why Bismarck had so much hate as I find him to be one of the best civilization of the game if not the best.

    Right now Im playing Bismarck on marathon diety and pretty much killing it in a unusual way. I've noticed that my diety games with bismarck are usually easier on diety than the games I play on immortal with another Civ.

    Now I finally understand why ; because on marathon speed, getting a 50% chance to get a free unit is MUCH more valuable than it is on normal since a unit take a lot more turn to be trained and last longer before ebing obsolete. Very often with bismarck, ive the same army size than Diety AIs and the army supply limit is always a concern as Bismarck(when barbarians are effectively hunted down).
    Since the AI biggest weakness is war and units control, Bismarck is def OP on marathon.

    So I think Bismarck's odds of getting free units should change depending of game speed to make it even. He should be buffed on quick and nerfed on marathon.

    Any thought ?
     
  2. RedFuneral

    RedFuneral Warlord

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    Possibly. I'm playing a marathon game right now where I'm sharing a continent with Bismark. While fighting him I noticed a good half of his army were barbarians, mainly archers and spearmen. Does the bonus you get against barbarian units carry over to these captured units? I hadn't checked but that seems a fair way to balance it out. The UA certainly does seem a bit strong.
     
  3. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    I would agree that he gets a benefit on marathon from being able to hit barb camps for a longer period of time before the open spaces are filled in with AI cities.
     
  4. Civking5

    Civking5 Prince

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    I agree with OP. I had similar experience with Bismark in marathon games. You can gather a big army from barb camps using his UA.
     
  5. apocalypse105

    apocalypse105 Deity

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    I thinx marathon is more balanced then standard

    SOme unit have more use then standard(longswordsman) and swordsman

    Olso some social policies olso have more use like honor

    A lot of unique abilities are better.


    The biggest reason is because technology goes way to fast at standard in my opinion
     
  6. KokeenoPokameso

    KokeenoPokameso Warlord

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    I have played Bismark on marathon. You can indeed rack up a sizable army especially with "raging barbarians" selected. A great ability because units take so long to build in Marathon speed.
     
  7. King_Course

    King_Course Prince

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    When you play marathon, it will take you ages to build a scout. And so AI gets all the ruins. It's just the way it is.
     
  8. civ54lyfe

    civ54lyfe Prince

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    On deity specifically, it sounds to me like this thing is lot more situational than it seems. You might very well not have the exploratory and/or stake-out units available to harvest the barb spawns on that kind of game difficulty before the point where your neighbor has forced you to commit all the forces you currently possess just to defend.

    It just sounds like a re-start waiting to happen until you do get a great deity start terrain that allows you to farm Germany's UA.
     
  9. seancolorado

    seancolorado Deity

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    And here's your answer why that is

     
  10. Koiranputki

    Koiranputki Prince

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    ...and because he seems to be so...well, I guess the word is "bi-polar"... I never trust him...if he is close he will attack...no matter what agreements you have with him. I guess because he usually has such a military advantage.... And then, inexpictably he will suddenly agree to some peace terms that a human player would never accept.

    In my current game it was "Bismarck comme d'habitude".... He DOW'd with not too much chance of any meaningful success. This "Cold War" went on for a while.... In the mean time I had attacked the Maya for sending a settler my way...after a short war the Maya gave up....and again rather inexpictably gave me one of their cities in the peace terms...in fact their only other city. And not a particularly attractive city...the usual AI screw-up...one hex away from an ideal river spot....and an excellent Petra location. [But of course, how was Pachal to know I would beat him to Petra in my own even better Petra location...}

    I hit on the idea of giving the city, Tikal, to Bismarck in a peace treaty. It was well away from me and in the middle of the Maya, the Russians and even Gustave was not too far away....already a bit of a hornet's nest...and so I thought I would try to throw Bismarck into the mix....he lapped up and we have been on friendly terms ever since.... Meanwhile Tikal has changed hands numerous times...the Russians hold it at the moment....but they've all had it a few times...
     
  11. civ54lyfe

    civ54lyfe Prince

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    I'm pretty I'm right here regarding deity and above. You're rolling the dice on a somewhat unforgiving level here. Either you have a very convenient Barb backyard recruiting grounds, or you don't. It's a restart playground that can go wildly differently, statistically speaking.
     
  12. omnishakira

    omnishakira Warlord

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    I dont know about that. The AI doesnt scout very well at all, I bet my warrior does a better job at getting the ruins than his scout does

    I know, that is also what I meant
     
  13. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

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    marathon just makes wars more worth it.

    ie as more units u got (and use) the more u profit from marathon.
    So its not bismarck being op but going into war at marathon
     
  14. SouljahAtWar

    SouljahAtWar Wasteland Souljah

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    THIS IS SPARTA!
    Furor Teutonics + Raging Barbarians = Win.
     
  15. Aaron90495

    Aaron90495 King

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    Actually, exactly the opposite. Raging Barbs only increases the number of barbs that spawn, NOT the number of camps, which are what Bismarck benefits from. So Raging Barbs is actually counter-productive.
     
  16. SouljahAtWar

    SouljahAtWar Wasteland Souljah

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    THIS IS SPARTA!
    You can convert more brutes to your side, so it isn't counter-productive.
     
  17. Aaron90495

    Aaron90495 King

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    But you only convert brutes in camps. How would you convert more brutes when more spawn FROM the camps? There'll almost always be a brute in the camp, anyways.
     
  18. shaglio

    shaglio The Prince of Dorkness

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    Actually, I think Furor Teutonics & either the Frontier or Tilted Axis map will suit Germany well for extra Barb Camps. Especially if you spawn right next to the frontier/snow region.
     

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