Blackbetsy HOF Attempts

[superslug]

Nine more cleared submissions trigger the next update.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Overnight Mapfinder went through 9000+ maps and didn't find a single Small Pangaea 60% with three cows and a river, which is very strange. Going to try for a Small Demigod Diplo win to add to that table (I've got one in).

Not sure how Demigod AI are going to feel after 1 month with Sid / Deity AI.

Also - I realized on my Civ settings I had the Sid AI as Less Aggressive, not Least Aggressive. So it was a bit more of a challenge than I thought!

 

[BlackBetsy]

Downside of playing Russia on a small Pangaea with huts - I popped a hut got a settler in 3950 BC (Yay!), then popped a hut right next to a Greek hoplite a few turns later, got a city out of it (Yay!), Alexander immediately declares war and razes it, then sends 3 warriors and razes the city I built with the popped settler.

3 cow map with 3 luxes close. Smh.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Weird to play a game in only 22 hours.....not as fast as my prior Demigod Diplo game but I was playing more to put a game in the table than true speed. I didn't micro the corrupt cities for science and I withheld techs from the AI at several junctures. Still not that much slower than the game I was really trying for speed.

Babylon inexplicably declared war on me with a mix of Longbowman and Infantry and Spearmen two turns before the Modern Age.....I just allied everyone, made Bismarck happy and I won the vote 5-1. I didn't lose a city and even took 2 Babylonian cities. SMH at the AI.

After playing Sid, Demigod AI not really a challenge. I played this relatively slowly because I didn't pop a lot of tech huts at the beginning of the game like I planned. On a jammed small Pangaea, probably better to just play Sumeria and grow population faster. I also didn't war to grab territory and ICS it to really speed up the tech pace; I didn't want to have to heal relations. But I would have been well warranted in taking out the Greeks since they were scattered and had 2 luxes.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Mapfinder is looking for two-cow + river starts on a Demigod Tiny 80% land Pangaea as the Koreans (want Commercial for bigger OCN + commerce bonus for cities) versus the Babylonians, Germans and someone else I forgot (hopefully not the Byzantines, that would have been a mistake). Looking for another Diplo victory. I've got one on this table @ 1320 AD but I think I can do better, and the table only has 7 slots filled in any case.

Tiny Diplos are tricky, of course, because you have to keep 2 AI's alive and under 25% of population / land.

I was originally going to use Greece this time, but I don't want a Hoplite triggering a Despotic Golden Age. I considered the Ottomans, since I haven't played them, but although I do like the Industrious trait, Commercial with Alphabet and a lead towards the Republic Slingshot is just too tempting. I've never used Korea before, Hwacha looks interesting. Lethal bombardment could possibly make it OP. Hope I have saltpeter.

Only 24 maps with 2 cows and a river on Tiny in 10,200 maps. Wow. 1 in 400 (0.25%). A few have gems showing, may start with those first.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Submitted a Tiny Emperor Diplo @ 1170 AD. Thought I was just filling the table, but the table is already full...sorry @archphoenix, you just lost your spot on that table. It's actually #7, and for playing fairly loose, not too shabby.

I went with the Sumerians, playing a pure expansion strategy. 3 native luxes plus trades for 1-3 more was enough, with the addition of the JS Bach's late. In City 002, we hit the trifecta of Colossus / Cope / Newton's. Newton's triggered a very well timed Golden Age in the late Medieval / Early Modern.

I didn't war at all until the very end, so I didn't ICS anyone elses territory to build specialist farms. But the Golden Age + lots of Universities early in the core meant that I had a lot of 4 turn science in the Industrial Era. I could have even delayed ToE and possibly have used it to get Fission in the Modern Era (Flight / Fission).

Germans/Ottomans/Babylonians as opponents, although Big Picture got me one 1 extra tech (Theology as a lucky draw when I was able to trade for Monotheism). With only 3 opponents, at the Medieval era, all 3 got Monotheism. At Industrial Age, I traded for Steam Power only after my free tech pull of Nationalism. In Modern Era, Babylon pulled Fission and I was able to get it with 90% of what I had (1840 gold, 665 gpt, luxes, Fascism). Had I not traded for Fascism in the Big Picture, I would have been short.

Emperor level, so no Great Library necessary, no trade pillaging.

Ottomans were only civ over 25% on anything since I had expanded into the map so aggressively at the start (over 35% from natural expansion). They declared war the turn before flight, took a border town, which I got right back, finished the UN, and won the vote 3-1.

That's 4 down towards the 10 for the next update, I think (if @superslug submits his, he will be 5). I will probably go for Small Emperor Diplo since its not a full table (its the one I was thinking about). Likely I will go for bigger opponent set again.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Can't remember when I've ever submitted 2 games in one day....has to have been a long time. Very fast in terms of game time Small Emperor Diplo victory for me - just about 5 hours. Mostly playing while I was watching football after Mapfinder found 3 2-cow maps for me.

Sumeria again. The pace of the initial expansion phase was very fast, and it showed up in my late Ancient Age research times, which were often 4/5 turn. 3 native luxes, although pretty long walks to get them. Happily, getting the long walks in was valuable - rubber and oil showed up on the fringes where I rushed out.

Had the Republic slingshot + Colossus, Cope, Newton's in a coastal town with 3 river tiles and a coal mountain (later in the game). SGL on Magnetism finished Newton's. Golden Age was very, very late, but good with Universal Suffrage, which reduced the turns on the last bits of the Industrial Age.

Emperor AI didn't help at all after Banking....that was the last required tech they provided, other than through the Whats the Big Picture trading. Industrial Age big picture allowed me to trade for Steam Power and Medicine, but I skipped Nationalism to avoid a bad free tech....and got Industralization! Good luck there.

Timing end of Golden Age with Palace flipped to UN wasn't easy. I was 1 turn off. But I forgot to declare war on the #2 before it finished (!!). Luckily, I had been trading with the other AI, zero wars the entire game (I don't even remember an AI-AI war), and they were all Gracious to me, except the Ottomans, who were #2 to me anyway. Otto, Hammy, Cathy, and the X-man all voted for me.

950 AD, which is actually my personal fastest Diplo by 2 turns. I didn't play THAT great and had a number of turns where key cities were in revolt. No early SGL for Pyramids.

The Small Emperor Diplo table is now full. This game is actually #5 on the list. Not shabby.

5 games in out of 10 for the next update are in. Not sure what table filler I will do next. Maybe Small Demigod Diplo where there are only 6 entries, of which one is mine. [Edit - no, dummy, you've already submitted a Small Demigod Diplo and only 2 entries can go on a table].

 

[BlackBetsy]

Looking at the tables, here are some things I'm thinking about:

Small Emperor Spaceship: Full table, but if I submit an entry with the Sumerians before 1615 AD, it could be an all Sumerian table.

Tiny Demigod Spaceship: Not a full table. I would actually be concerned about winning this! I really struggled on Tiny Demigod when I played around with it - the 2d settler that Demigod AI get proved to be difficult on Pangaea. I might go to 60% archipelago / Byzantines for the Alphabet / Republic Slingshot head start + carraghs for early trading. Since its tiny, I may play it twice and complete the table.

Standard Demigod Spaceship: Not a full table. Longer game with Standard, but DG AI 2 settler start is less of an issue on Standard.

Large Sid Domination: Only 1 on table. Any score is #2 and moves up my Machiavelli on Domination from #5 to #2. Beating 1600 AD for a #1 spot is a real possibility (I can't believe I'm saying this). Lord Ragnarok, are you ready?

 

[Bartleby]

Small Emperor Spaceship: Full table, but if I submit an entry with the Sumerians before 1615 AD, it could be an all Sumerian table.

I just had a look to see if there were any homogeneous tables, Large Chieftain Space is 100% Russia, makes me want to try Sumeria for that one.

edit: Small Warlord Conquest is 100% Aztec (PTW), but I'm less inclined to try to get on that table with the Inca.

 

[BlackBetsy]

I just had a look to see if there were any homogeneous tables, Large Chieftain Space is 100% Russia, makes me want to try Sumeria for that one.

edit: Small Warlord Conquest is 100% Aztec (PTW), but I'm less inclined to try to get on that table with the Inca.

Yeah, but we know what those Conquest tables are.

I actually think the project of making a table all one civ is kind of fun!

Also, I am now 100% convinced that the Vikings are WAY underrepresented on the tables. That Zerk raid / city gift tactic is crazy amazing. 6 offense unit that requires no resources at a time when best defenders are *mostly* 3, but at best 4, and upgrade directly from an early unit (Archers) that you can stockpile and mass upgrade. And you get a free ride for your conquering Zerk back to your capital for healing. It really is something! The only downside is you have to support a huge army along with galleys. But against DG level or lower, I could see how you could get by with 15 galleys and 20 Zerks and 10 catapults, with the catapults for the final landing to take out any landlocked cities.

 

[BlackBetsy]

I think for giggles that after now 7 months of playing & learning I am going to re-try Large Deity Diplo. That was my first re-post here in 19 years, a Diplo win with the Byz in 1792 AD. Given the map, it looks like a 80% archipelago.

My guess is that I would be able to get a pre-1500 AD win under the same conditions. I hadn't mastered the road pillage trick, but I did outpost the island to prevent invasion. I would trade better for sure and probably get more out of my cities and not research non-required techs. Should be fun!

 

[superslug]

That's 4 down towards the 10 for the next update, I think (if @superslug submits his, he will be 5).

We currently have 5 submissions towards the next update. I'll be lucky to have my game done by Thanksgiving, so don't count it in.

 

[BlackBetsy]

I'm going to submit a fairly meh entry for Small Emperor Spaceship that will make the table all Sumerian. I still have 12-13 turns of research left, so about 1350 AD, a disappointing #7 slot. I started out pretty well, but I never did get a huge chunk of land to build a big, big civ to drive research down. Mostly 5 and 6 turn research. I got a very late Industrial / early Modern Golden Age when I simply decided I wanted the Russian land - I had blocked them into a 6 city civ with early expansion, they were weak, and not worth gifting up - and beat a warrior the Russians still had about with an Enkidu. I waited on ToE until the Modern Age, and it got me Miniaturization and Space Flight - I really liked that strategy. 2 turns later had a Research Lab in every city to further cut down.

Still can be only so productive / research efficient with only about 25% of the territory. Maybe I should have been grabbing more turf early on through early wars. You can still Big Picture even if they don't like you. Industrial Age big picture got me Sanitation (ugh) when I could only trade for Medicine and no one got Steam Power. Emperor AI did get me Banking as usual, Sci Meth for some reason, and Nuclear Power. No SGLs, disappointingly.

My cultural advantage from having so many libraries and universities was extreme. When I planted near Berlin later in the game, I took 2 squares within Berlin's big cross even without any culture. Surprised I didn't get any culture flips to me, especially in German cities nearer my cap than Berlin.

Hopefully this will tighten my game for Tiny Demigod Spaceship.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Considering my recent games, I'd be less than honest if I didn't note that the Demigod AI that I brushed aside in a Small map size after winning a couple of Sid games was much harder to deal with in a Tiny map size, where the 2d settler start is a bigger advantage. Small is a 77% bigger map than Tiny. With the Koreans, I found my Tiny Demigod civ to be small, boxed in on the pangaea, and falling very far behind with very limited military capabilities. It was very uncomfortable and I would up saving the games and stopping when I felt like I was hitting a wall. Eventually I just moved back to Emperor - where there was no AI settler advantage - and the game got a lot easier again.

One of the things that amazes me about all of those Tiny Sid games is how you start in a way that you seem hopelessly behind. I can churn out settlers with and not have 6 settlements by 1790 BC....when @SpiffyKeen had taken out 2 Sid AI's who probably had 6-8 cities each in his #1 Sid Tiny Conquest game. Given all the free starting units Sid AI get, that one makes very little sense to me.

 

[BlackBetsy]

I submitted @1365, very unsatisfactory SS game for me even though, in fact, it was the fastest SS victory I've ever submitted.

Mapfinder ran since 9:30 p.m. (ish) last night and churned through 11,000 Tiny Demigod 70% archipelago maps and generated only 4 with two cows and a river for the Byz. I am concerned that getting 2 cows means that the rest of my natural territory is crap, but we will give it a go. Per previous post, we are going to go for another SS victory on a board that isn't complete.

6 submissions including mine last night towards the 10 to get a new update. I really want my Sid 100k win on the Board!

 

[BlackBetsy]

Have to say the Tiny Demigod Spaceship game I'm playing is one of the biggest head scratchers I've been involved in. We are playing at the Demigod level with a 70% water archipelago and the AI has never been ahead on tech. Sure, one had Math before I did, but I had 3 techs to trade for it. The Germans got Feudalism as a free tech and held it for a long time, but it's been the slowest DG AI I've ever seen. I mean, maybe Monarch AI pace is the closest. And we are playing the Germans / Ottomans / Russians. What's more, the Germans, on the west side of the map, never had contact with the Ottomans before I wiped them out, even though they had Astronomy. You could even ride coastal tiles around the map. I couldn't ever get the Germans into alliance with the Ottomans even though we were deep into the Medieval Age. Otto kept saying "The What-amans? Don't know them." It could be their continents are food starved or bad for commerce, dunno, but they do have lots of coastal tiles for commerce.

I did get almost all the iron in the world, and all the coal, and all but one of the Rubber.

I didn't think it was possible, but I pushed ToE into the Modern Age with these dumb DG AI. They are broke, so they aren't funding my research at any appreciable level (I think I get something like 80 gpt from both of them) and I'm only able to run 80% research because I keep trading old tech to the Russians for 20 turns of luxes. I didn't gift them up because I didn't want them to invade with better weapons (the Germans dropped off some Ancient Cavalry a few times and then a few riflemen) so I could keep a reasonably small army to defend my core and not have unit upkeep costs.

On the upside, my tech pace has been good throughout (Republic in 1600 BC thanks to the slingshot) and I took relatively good Ottoman lands that are producing scientists at a good rate since the Ottomans had the Pyramids and a decent continent. Probably messed up on the Internet by completing Hoover Dam instead (it was at the turn of the Modern Age - I flipped a Palace to Hoover Dam when I could have flipped it to the Internet because ToE finished at the same time as Electronics as my last Industrial Age tech). But I'm 6 turning the Modern Age techs so not that big of a deal.

Have to double check this was Demigod but I'm nearly 100% sure that I saw a 2nd Ottoman cities from my first curragh before I finished my first settler in a two-cow capital.

It's not a full board, and I will re-run this with a three cow start to put the 10th on the Board, but this could be a weird finish. Maybe 50 turns left? Maybe a 1600 finish?

 

[BlackBetsy]

LOL, I was at 1490 when I wrote that post, not 1300 like I thought. We are looking at a dismal mid-1700s finish. #8 on the charts. Gotta do better with next effort.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Even more LOL ---- it was Emperor level, and this particular score (1758 AD) didn't even make the table!! Oh well. Back to Mapfinder.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Decision point - early game SGL from the Republic Slingshot. Pyramids aren't build, so I could grab them. But I can also just build the Great Library immediately and turn off research. This is a 70% archipelago and I don't have much fresh water and only 2 native luxes. Maybe I get 10 cities on my continent

Do you always go Pyramids? Or do you do Great Library? Possibly wait for MapMaking and the Great Lighthouse? I can still build the Great Library by hand....I think that Pyramids are probably right but it's a very close call.

 

[Spoonwood]

Pyramids.