Blackbetsy HOF Attempts

[BlackBetsy]

About 1260 now. I've wiped out Arabia (only 4 cities) and made an initial landing on the Mongol island with 2 armies that quickly became 3 after I generated another MGL.

We are sitting at around 32% of the territory. The Mongol lands will push us up to around 40%.

The Military Academy is now established and we are cash-rushing armies. Unfortunately, the Mongol territory is 10 turns away by Galleon from our homeland. 3 armies is enough to pillage the Mongols and prevent some amount of counter-attacks, but the Keshiks ignore hills and mountains, so not changing much. 3 armies isn't yet enough to create a false funnel and draw the Mongols out; I'll need 2-3 more armies to do that (12 turns away). But once those armies are together with their Galleons it should be enough to then double back and land the Japanese homeland (still small), then carry forward to Egypt / America. There are some far southern islands with American presence that I'm in a war over after Abe declared rather than leave my territory. He doesn't have the troops to defend his position there, which is another 2-4% of the map.

I think I might be just short of 65% with Mongolia, Japan, Egypt and America and even China, so I might as well continue up the Mayan/Chinese land mass to take on the Mayans while I'm there.

1600 AD is not a possibility, but we are going to get a win here.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Early 1400's. The Mongolian conquest has been over since the 1360's when the vast Mongolian army suddenly disappeared when the last Mongolian city was taken. 40% of the world by land volume is ours. The valuable new technology of Electricity is allowing us to water islands that have never seen irrigation before, so we will soon be a majority of the population of the world.

By the end of the turn when the Mongolian army disappeared, war had been declared with Japan, which had taken over temporary administrative control of the former Mongolian cities, and all former Mongolian cities became part of the SidNavian empire with a swift police action. Arguably, given proximity, we should have shipped the troops to eliminate the Chinese next, but we decided to pack up and ship the army to finish the war with Japan, which is near the SidNavian homeland, meaning the additional armies available for creation in the Military Academy from capturing Mongolian cities and settling the Mongolian lands could be pressed right into the conflict.

The first Japanese city has fallen after being under seige for 3 turns and its 50+ spear / sword defense force eliminated. A false funnel is being created to empty the remaining Japanese cities to lead to a quick victory. Good old Civ Assist 2 says that Japan, Egypt and America should be *just* about enough to get up to 66% of the land. I think we are headed for a mid-1700's domination victory. Arguably, I could probably start the Egyptian landings before I finish the Japanese since I have quite a few armies, and an alliance with the Americans would likely allow me to empty the Egyptian cities without a false funnel, so I may try to land with a smaller force and take out Egypt that way to shorten the game length. Hopefully the American cities will empty as well.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Fragile is right. After it took me 3-4 turns to kill off 50+ defenders in one of the cities, I opened up the false funnel and took the other 4 cities, including Kyoto, in 1 turn, because they only left 2-3 defenders in each city. Wow. 120+ troops went poof. On to Egypt.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Only about 10 turns later --- the Egyptians, who had been drawn out by the Americans, fell pretty easily.

Close to about 48% with the Egyptians, as the Japanese land was more like 5%. The Americans should already be out of their cities, so I am hoping to make quick work of them and move on to the Chinese

 

[BlackBetsy]

Just a couple of turns into the American war, and it's not as easy as Egypt, but they are down to two mainland cities, which are mostly empty of troops at this point. Washington had 10+ rifles which now is going to require some Army healing. The last two cities are inconveniently located relative to each other, so it's going to take 3+ turns to finish them off. When I'm done with the Americans, the Incans will declare war on me when, as @Spoonwood would say, their traders refuse to deliver their goods just a few steps more by foot, and the American cities will flip from Incan to SidNavian in a turn or two.

I've decided that the Incans will be next because they don't have Nationalism, Saltpeter or Iron, which should mean that I'm mostly facing spearmen and archers. They may have traded for better things in the past, but I'm assuming that isn't that much. Iron is in short supply to everyone except SidNavia, I think. The Incan island also happens to be closer to American/Egyptian continent than China and looks like it has a few more tiles of territory.

The Mayans declared war on me for some reason - they didn't even have a force that was going to quick-take one of my cities. But it enabled me to scoop a Mayan city near a former American city on an island where I had some force, and 3 others, and perhaps another 2% of the world's land will soon thereafter fall under SidNavian jurisdiction.

I'm going to be close to done having finished off the Egyptians, Americans, and Incans, but I might have to start a small war with the Zulu for the final few %. There is an island where I can probably grab another 2% relatively easily in a brief war of conquest.

I think at this point we are mid 1650's on a win.

 

[BlackBetsy]

After using a few times on Sid, I can say that the donate - retake strategy of city conquest is really superior. When you re-take the cities from the civ you gave them to, they are of course lightly defended, but they also don't have resistors. It makes it easy to rush culture in them vs. waiting out the resistance. It's a solid A strategy.

I am also thinking more about the strategy of using allies to draw out a Sid civ's troops from its cities. My very fast conquest of Egypt showed me this value - there were 30+ units in all the Egyptian cities before they went to fight the Americans. Then hardly any once I landed 2 turns after the Egyptian-American war started.

It could easily be used on a Pangaea as well and, quite frankly, to a more optimal effect since there are likely to be more neighbors. Consider a Pangaea where you are neighbors with Civ A and B, and B is neighbor to C, and A is neighbor to D. If you go to war with A or B, you are likely to overwhelmed by a Sid AI's hordes unless you are able to effectively block your frontier with Armies. But if you do a ROP with A and B and ally A and B against C, and then D, Civs A and B are going to take the brunt of C's and D's counter-attack. If you bring artillery and sufficient forces, you should be able to take down lightly defended C and D cities, and now you are 3 times the size of A and B when you need to fight them.

 

[BlackBetsy]

1535 AD. The American Empire is over, poofing its last remaining troops. On to Incan territory.

 

[BlackBetsy]

1600 AD on the death of the Inca, so I'm only going to miss the #1 spot by a few turns, probably because I chose to do the Mongols before the Japanese and I had to ship around the units too much.

 

[BlackBetsy]

1635, 2nd place Sid Large Domination (2 of 2) if accepted. Could have had #1 if I had ordered my conquests better. Helps my Machiavelli but not much else. Annoying Advisor screen crash 2 turns before the end. Exhausting. But a Sid "W".

 

[Bartleby]

Congrats!

 

[BlackBetsy]

Checking in on the old Quartermaster chart:

My Machiavelli will improve from 3.00 to 2.50 because my Domination best rank will go from 5 to 2, so that will be .125 overall on Quartermaster, moving me to about a tie with Marsden in 19th place (I might be slightly ahead and I have more table points).

My highest / worst of the 3 non-histographic challenges is Octathalon, where I'm sitting with a 4th in Emperor, 4th in Regent, 5th in Warlord and 4th in Chieftain:

Warlord is the obvious choice, given that a #4 improves me to a 3.125 score. I could also do a Large Deity 100k game before 1932 to get a #2 spot on that chart. But that is some severe brain damage and I'm not going to take that one on soon.

On the Warlord charts, the Domination dates are very competitive and I don't think I could touch any in my current game state. My Large Chieftain cultural 100k date (1180 AD) would be #2 on the Warlord chart (tied on date, but well behind on translated score). I don't think I've played as game as miserable as that Babylonian Chieftain 100k game, but a #4 or better is surely something I could do.

#4 on Large Diplo Warlord is 950 AD, which matches my best Diplo finish, but that was on Small Emperor, where tech costs are lower and the AI can actually contribute to the game. Techs are 28% more expensive on Large Warlord vs. Small Emperor, meaning that all other things being equal, it would take me 28% more turns (OCN is higher, and I'd play as Russia to pop ancient age techs to compensate). Standard Warlord, where techs are about the same costs (4% cheaper) than Small Emperor, the #4 date is a 560 AD score by @Spoonwood , which you know is going to be tough to beat. Small Warlord, with 20% cheaper techs, has a #4 date of 680. If I was able to do 20% fewer turns on my 950 AD score, I could hit 530 AD, good enough for second place or third place on that table. Third place is 670 AD, turn 182.

Gonna play around with Small Warlord with Russia and absolutely the max number of scientific opponents on the biggest domination limit I can find with 2 river cows and see if I can pop from #5 to #3 on the Warlord charts.

 

[BlackBetsy]

I now realize my #2 position on Large with this submission beats my prior #3, meaning I squeeze my Pentathlon up to 2.6, meaning I will be at 3.31 overall on the Quartermaster, still behind EMan. I'll need a top 3 Standard or Tiny finish (very hard to do) to move up the Pentathlon any further. A cultural 100k @ Standard Sid is going to be a #2 at best given @Spoonwood's outstanding 1350 AD date.

 

[BlackBetsy]

LOL, I'm researching refining @560 AD. Golden Age 4 turning it, but I'll be lucky to get earlier than 900 AD.

 

[BlackBetsy]

880AD. 5th place, just edging out killercane. I did pop a city (not settler) but not nearly enough techs to speed up the game. No Ancient Age SGL for the Pyramids. Did get Colossus/Cope/Newton in one city. Research sped up a ton after I hand-built the Pyramids. I didn't get the slingshot b/c I popped Philo (I should have research COL and not popped huts when I hit writing). I messed up research when I realized that I needed to research Republic to trade at the Big Picture. That cost me 8 turns - so I guess I could have hit 800 AD (still 5th place). Ruined GPT rep stupidly again. Used ToE to guarantee Fission since I could 4 turn Atomic Theory.

I've got 3 more maps with the Russians so I will try again, but I think it's an early SGL for Pyramids to really get my finishing turn right.

 

[Spoonwood]

My Machiavelli will improve from 3.00 to 2.50 because my Domination best rank will go from 5 to 2

There exists a sizeable gap between #1 for Sid 20k Large and #2 for Sid 20k Large. The Deity level top two entries also are not necessarily the strongest. Huge Deity 20k also has a significant gap between #1 and #2 positions.

Many of the upper level spaceship entries likely could have faster dates of a few turns (not 1 or 2 faster). For instance Huge Sid spaceship finishes at 1874 AD. Alright, Huge Sid makes for the most time consuming map of them all... But the top spot only took under 16 hours! On a 60% pangea map, the tech pace definitely can go more quickly. The Deity and Demigod Huge Spaceship tables also have a sizeable entry between the 1 and number 2 spots. There exists a 34 turn difference between #1 and #2 on Monarch Huge Spaceship also. The Large spaceship tables I think all could have better #1 or #2 entries. Note that we have a 1370 AD entry for standard spaceship at #1 position, but a 1555 AD spaceship entry for #1 Large Spaceship. A large map having a later entry does make sense, but that makes for what I feel consists of a sizeable difference.

For diplomatic, Gyaathar submitted a 960 AD standard sized map entry. But, large diplomatic #1 finishes in 1250 AD. Gyaahtar's entry is also 960 AD, while Stalintag's #2 entry is 1700 AD! Huge Deity Diplomatic also has a sizeable difference between the #1 and #2 entries.

Playing a 60% pangea standard map with maximum opponents/friends (7) for a diplomatic victory would be what I would recommend. Try to get trading up before they start selling luxuries to some other AI (though another luxury or resource can get roaded sometimes also). Get their gold and make sure to get their gpt once it becomes available so that you can purchase technologies as soon as they get discovered and sometimes, at least also, gift those technologies around.

 

[Spoonwood]

Tiny Deity and Tiny Sid also have medium to large differences between the #1 entry and the #2 entry. Small diplomatic maps also have a sizeable difference between the entries.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Grrrr..... Another game, this time an 870 AD finish. I'm not even submitting, don't want to bother submitting a game that barely beats the other and I was so frustrated that I started playing around with the end game and reloading to try different Modern Age trading scenarios since I wasn't submitting. Newsflash - none are good unless 2 AI civs get Fission. Also, SGL rushing the Palace means you can't switch to the UN (I didn't remember this before playing around).

At the turn of the Medieval Age, everyone got Engineering, one person got Feudalism, and I got Feudalism. At the turn of the Industrial Age, I was able to trade for everything but then I pulled Ironclads. Those two sets of bad luck definitely cost me a sub 800 finish. I still haven't gotten and Ancient Age SGL, which I need for the Pyramids.

Once I hit writing, I slowed Philo research to a crawl, and then when I popped Code of Laws, sped it up and got the Republic slingshot. I'm not 100% sure that slowing down and taking 22 turns on Philo is the right move, though. I should be researching swiftly at the end of the Ancient Age.

Had to hand build the Pyramids, Cope, and Newtons. That surely slowed me down by many turns. But I really did a good job on 4/5 turning research midway through the Medieval Age and then 4 turning most of the Industrial Age, especially when Newton's triggered my Golden Age. I was even able to 4 turn Atomic Theory without too many specialists, which is the biggest tech of them all.

 

[Bartleby]

For the Slingshot it's probably better to self-research CoL before Philo, and just camp next to any huts during that time. It's super annoying to see the AI pop any of them (esp. if they get barbs!), but there's a decent chance you'll finish the ancient age once you do pop the remaining huts (mebbes not on a Small map tho').

 

[BlackBetsy]

For the Slingshot it's probably better to self-research CoL before Philo, and just camp next to any huts during that time. It's super annoying to see the AI pop any of them (esp. if they get barbs!), but there's a decent chance you'll finish the ancient age once you do pop the remaining huts (mebbes not on a Small map tho').

Yes, on a small map, Russians are *really* close to the margin. The second city you generally pop is very useful, but the non-tech hut pops aren't great. Thanks on the Code of Laws advice - I think I had just figured that one out this morning!

 

[BlackBetsy]

I think the sequence is (1) research CB (cheapest tech); (2) trade for as many starting techs as possible; (3) once you pop Writing, CoL on maximum, don't pop huts; (4) when you finish CoL, if the "cheapest tech is popped" thing works, Philo should be next tech / Republic.

From the Wiki, the list of Ancient Age techs, by cost, with civs you have them):

Pottery 2 (Russia, Sumeria)
CB 2 (Babylon)
Warrior Code 3 (Germany)
Bronze Working 3 (all scientific)
Masonry 4 (Persia, Ottomans)
The Wheel 4 (Japan, not scientific)
Mysticism 4
Alphabet 5 (Greeks, Koreans, Byzantines)
Horseback Riding 5
Iron Working 6
Philosophy 6
Math 8
Writing 8
Code of Laws 10
Literature 10
Map Making 12
Polytheism 12
Currency 16
Construction 20

It strikes me that there is a case for finding but not popping ANY huts until you meet all the civs or at least get all the unique techs - Masonry from the Persians, Warrior Code from the Germans, etc. Pop the first couple of huts for the settler / city since you have a high chance while everyone has 1 city. At a Warlord level, the AI really aren't scouting early so they aren't popping huts. Then once you get the unique starting techs, pop huts until you pop Writing, then no huts until you finish researching COL. On Small, that might get you through the Ancient Age.

Arguably, to make Alphabet cheaper to research if I need to, I should drop the Persians and add the Koreans. Or I could add the Japanese for the Wheel but then I lose a Scientific in the Big Picture, which is probably too high a price.