690 AD would be a #1 finish on Large Regent diplomatic. Though maybe you remembered seeing that the #1 finish on Large Regent Diplomatic is 700 AD by Scratcher.
Blackbetsy HOF Attempts
- Thread starter BlackBetsy
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690 AD would be a #1 finish on Large Regent diplomatic. Though maybe you remembered seeing that the #1 finish on Large Regent Diplomatic is 700 AD by Scratcher.
BlackBetsy
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Yes, when next spots are published I will have beaten that spot.
BlackBetsy
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Deconstructing this further, I had very poor hut luck in the Ancient Age; I only hit the Medieval Age around 950 BC. I did come in with good research momentum, but I had to research Currency and Construction, which I normally pop from huts. Basically, my hut luck dried up around 1600 BC, because with a 1900 BC Republic, I would have expected to be in the Medieval Age around 1300-1400 BC.
Thosee 12 turns on Currency/Construction were not good. The game would hit the Industrial Age in 350 AD (750 AD finish if I did the minimum 40 turns in the Industrial Age). Moving up 12 turns would put me at a best case 630 AD finish.
The war with Persia cut off one of my luxuries and I had to deal with bad War Weariness because the Persians were threatening enough that I had to do a 20 turn alliance with the closest neighbors, the Ottomans. That probably was a mistake; I could have had peace earlier.
The war weariness (I had 2 towns raised and 1 captured, plus 2 workers captured) forced me to 30% luxuries, really slowing down my research in the Medieval Age. I had to hire entertainers as well. Between building Longbowmen and Spearmen instead of Settlers and Libraries, I had to have lost 5-10 turns there, which is enough to bump me from the top spot.
That was attempt #88. Play to the end of the Medieval Age on #15 (680 AD), #50 (650 AD) and #88 (best case 750 AD). Some 1500 BC runs on others, but mostly I'm out of the game without an SGL by 2000 BC.
I do wonder if the right research strategy is the Wheel / HBR for an SGL. CB is almost always going to be popped from a hut. Given the expense of the Wheel relative to CB, with Warrior Code a 2nd tech they can pop in between, I wonder if the AI low likelihood of popping 2 techs means that Wheel / HBR might be better. HBR is more expensive than Mysticism, however, and the Wheel is 2x expensive as CB, so it delays when you can get the SGL.
BlackBetsy
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Grinding away. I'm going to flip to a strategy of playing games for a bit to see if I pop a settler, saving, playing next map, etc. I think it'll be better for not falling in love with a game. Mapfinder got nearly 200+ maps for me over several sessions.
So many things have to go right to be in the 500's. I have come to the conclusion that a Maus-triggered Medieval Golden Age is the right play. I think the earlier in the Medieval Era the better; all other things being equal should build Maus in your Colossus city before Cope.
The key difference to me between Monarch and Regent so far is that Monarch AI, even if set to least aggressive, will start wars with you. They also can reliably research Iron Working for you if you haven't popped it. Marginally, they have more cash on hand and can send more gpt your way for tech.
One thing I note from repeatedly playing early games is that buying a settler from the AI for tech really, really holds back the AI. It seems like anyone I buy an early worker from falls behind.
So many things have to go right to be in the 500's. I have come to the conclusion that a Maus-triggered Medieval Golden Age is the right play. I think the earlier in the Medieval Era the better; all other things being equal should build Maus in your Colossus city before Cope.
The key difference to me between Monarch and Regent so far is that Monarch AI, even if set to least aggressive, will start wars with you. They also can reliably research Iron Working for you if you haven't popped it. Marginally, they have more cash on hand and can send more gpt your way for tech.
One thing I note from repeatedly playing early games is that buying a settler from the AI for tech really, really holds back the AI. It seems like anyone I buy an early worker from falls behind.
Settler. Worker. What's the difference???
BlackBetsy
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It was a late night! But imagine how great it would be if you could buy a settler.
It would have the nationality of the AI you bought it from, and the settled citizen would have the nationality of the AI you bought it from... just like settlers from captured cities/towns/metros. Then when you went to war with them, that citizen would likely be unhappy if you had no luxuries.
BlackBetsy
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Was there a version of Civ where you could gift an ally troops or am I thinking of another game?
I don't know what's possible in civ 4, 5, or 6. I don't recall such as possible in I, II, or III.
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Well, one of the Large Monarch games I've been playing finally had just enough of the luck I needed. If accepted, the #1 Large Monarch Diplo.
Popped settler in 3950 and settled second city in 3900 BC; SGL on 3rd tech in 2110BC. Was at 19 cities at 1000 BC. Very good hut luck with COL when I was researching Philosophy; I had a very early Republic. 1500 BC or so entry into Medieval Era.
As you can see from the minimap, I hemmed the Persians in and defended the border pretty well. No DOW from the Persians. My one war was from the Germans, who DOW when I asked them to leave a border town that only had a warrior defending. I had just enough cash to rush a spear and it held against a couple of German archers that showed up a few turns later, but I allied the Byz, who seemed to siphon off the German troops on their long walk. In the replay I see they lost Adrianople to the war.
The Byz beat me to the Colossus! So I built Cope and Newton (hand builds) in an extremely productive cap.
Triggered Golden Age in 290 BC with Cope's after I built Maus. This was the mid-Medieval period and I 4 turned all the end stage Medieval techs and built up the remaining libraries and universities and pushed out a bunch of new cities. Aggressive settlement gave me 6 native luxes. Never traded for any others.
Entered the Industrial Age in 110 BC; pulled Industrialization after I traded only for Steam and Medicine. My best case at that 580 AD, meaning I had only 3 turns to give. The Golden Age ended while I was researching the Corporation and had to scramble to get it back down to 4 turns. I couldn't get Electricity to 4 turns, so gave up 1 turn there. I also had to give up a turn on Replaceable Parts, leaving me with only 1 turn left.
I used the 5 turns on Rep Parts to build up my research and eventually got Steel down to 4 turns. SciMeth was always only going to be 4. I then MM'ed my civ into near starvation to get Refining down to 4 turns....when I saw that I could do that, I knew 610 was possible. ToE in the Cap, Palace pre-build underway, I knew I had the turns right.
Last scare was running out of gold to run 100% science. The AI were broke - I couldn't get more than 60 gpt out of them total. My reserve had been 2800 or so, but I spent it down rushing some Unis and Markets in the name of science. But hard work on research meant that I could run a +70 gpt on MassProd and Motorized. I didn't try to 4 turn Flight since my I couldn't squeeze another turn out of the Palace and so I ran a big surplus in the last turn of Flight.
2d AI I gifted got Fission, and they didn't have Nationalism or Navigation, but that plus 810 gpt wasn't enough. Eventually I got enough to trade for Rocketry which a number of AI got, and then traded that for Computers, which was enough to get my Rocketry for gpt back and to get Fission.
Maybe the best luck was running into a set of beautiful flood plains in my far north with cities 58-64. They flipped to specialist farms really, really fast and probably were what got me over the top on Refining.
I get to abandon the other starts now and move on to something else. Large Emperor 100k still a possibility, as is a SpaceShip game. Probably SS first, since my best finish is a 3, and I'm on a science kick. An Emperor SS 2nd place kills 2 birds with 1 stone.
Emperor is the big leap, of course, because you have the 2d citizen born unhappy. Can't glide your way through the early game. Less chance of tech pops on huts, etc. But I'd expect the AI to better fund research and to research several techs for you.
Large Emperor #2 is 1270 AD which is 70 turns slower than this game. So I think it's doable, although I won't know until I play it. ZERO Russian games on the Large Emperor Spaceship chart...which is interesting. @Spoonwood has the number 1 game with Sumeria, which seems like the obvious 2d choice.
Popped settler in 3950 and settled second city in 3900 BC; SGL on 3rd tech in 2110BC. Was at 19 cities at 1000 BC. Very good hut luck with COL when I was researching Philosophy; I had a very early Republic. 1500 BC or so entry into Medieval Era.
As you can see from the minimap, I hemmed the Persians in and defended the border pretty well. No DOW from the Persians. My one war was from the Germans, who DOW when I asked them to leave a border town that only had a warrior defending. I had just enough cash to rush a spear and it held against a couple of German archers that showed up a few turns later, but I allied the Byz, who seemed to siphon off the German troops on their long walk. In the replay I see they lost Adrianople to the war.
The Byz beat me to the Colossus! So I built Cope and Newton (hand builds) in an extremely productive cap.
Triggered Golden Age in 290 BC with Cope's after I built Maus. This was the mid-Medieval period and I 4 turned all the end stage Medieval techs and built up the remaining libraries and universities and pushed out a bunch of new cities. Aggressive settlement gave me 6 native luxes. Never traded for any others.
Entered the Industrial Age in 110 BC; pulled Industrialization after I traded only for Steam and Medicine. My best case at that 580 AD, meaning I had only 3 turns to give. The Golden Age ended while I was researching the Corporation and had to scramble to get it back down to 4 turns. I couldn't get Electricity to 4 turns, so gave up 1 turn there. I also had to give up a turn on Replaceable Parts, leaving me with only 1 turn left.
I used the 5 turns on Rep Parts to build up my research and eventually got Steel down to 4 turns. SciMeth was always only going to be 4. I then MM'ed my civ into near starvation to get Refining down to 4 turns....when I saw that I could do that, I knew 610 was possible. ToE in the Cap, Palace pre-build underway, I knew I had the turns right.
Last scare was running out of gold to run 100% science. The AI were broke - I couldn't get more than 60 gpt out of them total. My reserve had been 2800 or so, but I spent it down rushing some Unis and Markets in the name of science. But hard work on research meant that I could run a +70 gpt on MassProd and Motorized. I didn't try to 4 turn Flight since my I couldn't squeeze another turn out of the Palace and so I ran a big surplus in the last turn of Flight.
2d AI I gifted got Fission, and they didn't have Nationalism or Navigation, but that plus 810 gpt wasn't enough. Eventually I got enough to trade for Rocketry which a number of AI got, and then traded that for Computers, which was enough to get my Rocketry for gpt back and to get Fission.
Maybe the best luck was running into a set of beautiful flood plains in my far north with cities 58-64. They flipped to specialist farms really, really fast and probably were what got me over the top on Refining.
I get to abandon the other starts now and move on to something else. Large Emperor 100k still a possibility, as is a SpaceShip game. Probably SS first, since my best finish is a 3, and I'm on a science kick. An Emperor SS 2nd place kills 2 birds with 1 stone.
Emperor is the big leap, of course, because you have the 2d citizen born unhappy. Can't glide your way through the early game. Less chance of tech pops on huts, etc. But I'd expect the AI to better fund research and to research several techs for you.
Large Emperor #2 is 1270 AD which is 70 turns slower than this game. So I think it's doable, although I won't know until I play it. ZERO Russian games on the Large Emperor Spaceship chart...which is interesting. @Spoonwood has the number 1 game with Sumeria, which seems like the obvious 2d choice.
BlackBetsy
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Only one SGL in this game...which clearly wasn't a big obstacle to a good finish. Yes, a faster Cope might have saved me a turn or two, but I didn't feel it. I think no Colossus probably cost me more turns.
BlackBetsy
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Also, that's 10 submissions to the HOF, but I submitted 3 Large Regent Diplo games, and only 2 can go to the table, so I wonder if that means it's only really 9 submissions.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
I hope to submit one this evening, so that'll be 10 or 11 then. Or one already for the next update.
Congratulations MapFinder QuarterMaster BlackBetsy!
BlackBetsy
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@Moonsinger is gone, but her legacy in the HOF lives on!
BlackBetsy
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That was my 13th consecutive Diplo HOF submission ... all with Russia (I call it "Old Russia" since I don't like the current version). I'll probably at least start Large Emperor SS with Russia, so the Russian kick will continue. If I feel like the hut luck doesn't overcome the slower expansion you get with Sumeria, I will switch over.
Same plan as Large Monarch - (1) min opponents, all science on 60% pangaea; (2) pop early settler (before I've finished my 3rd scout); (3) SGL before 2000 BC. I think with the Emperor penalty, I'll have a harder time researching more than 2 techs before 2000 bc. I'm going to stick with CB/Mysticism but if I can't get an SGL in 20 tries by Mysticism, I'll probably switch to Wheel / HBR.
As a matter of fact, when I load up Mapfinder, only change is to move the dial to Emperor.
Same plan as Large Monarch - (1) min opponents, all science on 60% pangaea; (2) pop early settler (before I've finished my 3rd scout); (3) SGL before 2000 BC. I think with the Emperor penalty, I'll have a harder time researching more than 2 techs before 2000 bc. I'm going to stick with CB/Mysticism but if I can't get an SGL in 20 tries by Mysticism, I'll probably switch to Wheel / HBR.
As a matter of fact, when I load up Mapfinder, only change is to move the dial to Emperor.
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This table of ALL Emperor SS HOF fast finishes now makes me think that Tiny #2 is probably the most doable number:
The Tiny #2 is only as fast as the Large #2, and it's 39 turns behind the fastest. I did a standard DG SS @1400 AD, so I would think going to a smaller map + easier difficulty should be more doable. In my writeup on the Demigod game, I thought I could have done 20 turns better if I did better on micromanaging research, which I do focus more on now. Plus, it should be a faster game to play since its Tiny. It'll give me something else to think about.
The Tiny #2 is only as fast as the Large #2, and it's 39 turns behind the fastest. I did a standard DG SS @1400 AD, so I would think going to a smaller map + easier difficulty should be more doable. In my writeup on the Demigod game, I thought I could have done 20 turns better if I did better on micromanaging research, which I do focus more on now. Plus, it should be a faster game to play since its Tiny. It'll give me something else to think about.
BlackBetsy
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MapFinder grinding out now on Tiny Emperror, much harder to find the map criteria I was using for Large Monarch. Only 30 out of 11,000 maps so far - I want to get 100. That's going to take me probably 2 days of MapFinder running. I worry that getting 2 cows and a bunch of rivers means I'm light on other things.
I went with 3 opponents for max science sharing, but I worry I might be cramped on expansion vs. Emperor AI.
I went with 3 opponents for max science sharing, but I worry I might be cramped on expansion vs. Emperor AI.
BlackBetsy
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One thing I think is interesting is that I'm actually slightly MORE likely to pop a settler on Emperor than on Monarch...
So it's a 25% on Emperor vs. only a 23% chance on Monarch. For tech, I think the way you calculate it once you have enough cities to disqualify you from getting a settler or city is 25% for tech divided by the remaining options - i.e. they 75% chance of non-settler. So it's a 33% chance at tech, compared to 40% at Monarch. So 12 huts for 4 techs vs. 10 for 4 techs.
In general, I will probably only pop 2 huts before I abandon w/out a settler (sometimes I will pop a 3rd or 4th hut), so given an acceptable starting map, I should be at least getting through gate 1 (pop a settler/city) 44% of the time. So with 100 maps, 56 should fall out for not getting a settler, and then of the 44, I should get 4-5 early SGL's on the premise that I'll be playing through 2 techs I've hit first. That should yield me 4-5 deep plays, which is about consistent with my 100 Large Monarch maps (I think I played attempt 15, 50, 88, 97 and maybe 1-2 others).
So it's a 25% on Emperor vs. only a 23% chance on Monarch. For tech, I think the way you calculate it once you have enough cities to disqualify you from getting a settler or city is 25% for tech divided by the remaining options - i.e. they 75% chance of non-settler. So it's a 33% chance at tech, compared to 40% at Monarch. So 12 huts for 4 techs vs. 10 for 4 techs.
In general, I will probably only pop 2 huts before I abandon w/out a settler (sometimes I will pop a 3rd or 4th hut), so given an acceptable starting map, I should be at least getting through gate 1 (pop a settler/city) 44% of the time. So with 100 maps, 56 should fall out for not getting a settler, and then of the 44, I should get 4-5 early SGL's on the premise that I'll be playing through 2 techs I've hit first. That should yield me 4-5 deep plays, which is about consistent with my 100 Large Monarch maps (I think I played attempt 15, 50, 88, 97 and maybe 1-2 others).
BlackBetsy
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I decided to play a little bit on Tiny Emperor where I didn't get a settler just to get the feel for the Emperor level and the AI. It is quite an adjustment - Germans quickly trashed a city I settled before I could build a unit and the Ottomans hit Mysticism the same turn I did. Almost no huts to pop - I just got the Wheel and Warrior Code. Wondering if Sumeria/no huts is a better bet.
