Blacks outside Africa

Who of these leaders would you like to see in next expansions?

  • Haiti

    Votes: 24 75.0%
  • Ahmadnegar Sultanate

    Votes: 1 3.1%
  • Palmares

    Votes: 2 6.3%
  • Seminoles

    Votes: 4 12.5%
  • EUA

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Brazil

    Votes: 7 21.9%
  • Olmec-XIcalanca

    Votes: 5 15.6%
  • Miskitos

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Garifuna

    Votes: 1 3.1%

  • Total voters
    32
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Honestly we do not need 4 anglo civs. Canada and Australia can go
I also don't like those Civs.
Can we keep Australia please? :please:
It's at least in Oceania. I'm fine with trading in Canada and Scotland next iteration for Haiti and Ireland.
That is a point, Oceania have few civs and Australia fill a blank in the map.
We should substitute them for some Aboriginal Civ, but I search a while and can't find a good name to replace Australia.
 

FishFishFish

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Yeah. Even though the Australian Aboriginals were basically still in the stone age, I'd still rather see one added over Australia.

The Gunditjmara would be my pick. They used volcanic rock to construct fish traps, weirs and ponds to manage the water flows from nearby lakes in order to trap eels.
 
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Once I thought Truganini as leading the Tasmanian people.
She was the last survival of the British Genocide on the island.

 

Zaarin

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Can we keep Australia please? :please:
No. Of all the unnecessary civs added to the game, Australia is the worst offender. I will take Canada led by Celine Dion with a Beaver Mountie UU and a Tim Horton's UB before I accept Australia back. :p Australia is already in the game: it's part of the English civilization. For the TSL players, bring the Maori back, though TBH having Australia empty is kind of nice for late game colonization and I'd prefer a different Polynesian civ like Hawai'i or Tonga next time around.

We should substitute them for some Aboriginal Civ, but I search a while and can't find a good name to replace Australia.
Yeah. Even though the Australian Aboriginals were basically still in the stone age, I'd still rather see one added over Australia.

The Gunditjmara would be my pick. They used volcanic rock to construct fish traps, weirs and ponds to manage the water flows from nearby lakes in order to trap eels.
On the one hand, Aboriginal beliefs regarding the dead make them unlikely to want to be included. On the other hand, they're also a very poor fit for the Civ model for the same reason as the Inuit, Khoisan, indigenous people of the Amazon, or Paleo-Siberians. I'd much rather see such people represented by city-states/minor civs. Agriculture and a sedentary lifestyle or pastoral nomadism (which is different from the hunter-gatherer nomadic lifestyle) should be prerequisites for being considered as a civilization IMO.
 
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Yes. :p

Of all the unnecessary civs added to the game, Australia is the worst offender.
I consider that to be Scotland. Even though I like the idea of Scotland the design isn't what I wanted and is close to being another United Kingdom civ with Victoria's England.

For the TSL players, bring the Maori back, though TBH having Australia empty is kind of nice for late game colonization and I'd prefer a different Polynesian civ like Hawai'i or Tonga next time around.
So you want to keep it a dangerous island filled with primitive people, before colonization? :shifty:
 

Zaarin

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I consider that to be Scotland. Even though I like the idea of Scotland the design isn't what I wanted and is close to being another United Kingdom civ with Victoria's England.
Scotland was poorly designed, but I don't object to the idea of a Scottish civ--even if it loses out in pretty much every respect to an Irish civ.

So you want to keep it a dangerous island filled with primitive people, before colonization? :shifty:
TBH I would be a little surprised if barbarians return in their current form in Civ7; Barbarian Clans was the first step in acknowledging that their current representation leaves a lot to be desired. So do I want to see Australia populated by potentially hostile minor civs until colonization? Frankly, yes.
 
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TBH I would be a little surprised if barbarians return in their current form in Civ7; Barbarian Clans was the first step in acknowledging that their current representation leaves a lot to be desired. So do I want to see Australia populated by potentially hostile minor civs until colonization? Frankly, yes.
That was more of a joke. :lol:
I too would rather have something more similar to Barbarian clans too. And yes they can populate Australia on a TSL map as long as they aren't in the game. :p
 

aieeegrunt

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Can we keep Australia please? :please:
It's at least in Oceania. I'm fine with trading in Canada and Scotland next iteration for Haiti and Ireland.

Oh God I forgot about Scotland, make that FIVE Anglo civs.

I find the current trend of claiming there are too many Euro civs to be both ignorant of history and incredibly racist, but having Americans AND Brits AND Scots AND Canadians AND Australians to be ridiculous overrepresentation of the Anglos.


I also don't like those Civs.

That is a point, Oceania have few civs and Australia fill a blank in the map.
We should substitute them for some Aboriginal Civ, but I search a while and can't find a good name to replace Australia.

I don’t know if the Aboriginals would qualify as a whole Civ, but a city state would be nice
 

FishFishFish

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On the one hand, Aboriginal beliefs regarding the dead make them unlikely to want to be included. On the other hand, they're also a very poor fit for the Civ model for the same reason as the Inuit, Khoisan, indigenous people of the Amazon, or Paleo-Siberians. I'd much rather see such people represented by city-states/minor civs. Agriculture and a sedentary lifestyle or pastoral nomadism (which is different from the hunter-gatherer nomadic lifestyle) should be prerequisites for being considered as a civilization IMO.

I do agree that it would make no sense for almost any Australian aboriginal to be added into the game as a major civ but I do believe the Gunditjmara could potentially be an exception.

The Gunditjmara were a settled population unlike most Aborigines who were nomadic. Stone houses were built with a low wall of basalt blocks of two to-three courses (approximately 50 centimetres high) at the base, and U-shaped or C-shaped with a diameter of three-to four metres.

They might not have had agriculture but they did have an extensive aquaculture system. Eels were caught in a series of built dams, channels and traps, cured in Mallee gum smoke and traded for flint. Infact the Muldoons Trap Complex is the oldest known stone-walled fish trap in the world.

They also weren't naked unlike other aboriginals and wore possum skin cloaks, which is cool.
 
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Zaarin

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Oh God I forgot about Scotland, make that FIVE Anglo civs.
Irony 1: Robert the Bruce speaking Middle English is historic, though they could have had him speaking Norman.
Irony 2: TBH I fully expected them to have him anachronistically speaking Gaelic.

(If we ever get a Scottish civ again, I would strongly prefer they base it on the Kingdom of the Isles, which at least has some interesting flavor to distinguish itself from the other British civ.)
 
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(If we ever get a Scottish civ again, I would strongly prefer they base it on the Kingdom of the Isles, which at least has some interesting flavor to distinguish itself from the other British civ.)
Honestly having a hybrid Scottish/Viking civ would be kind of cool. That way we wouldn't have to go back to Denmark or go to Iceland for another Viking civ outside of Norway.

Picts would also be an interesting option for a more Classical Era approach, similar to the Gauls.
 

Zaarin

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Honestly having a hybrid Scottish/Viking civ would be kind of cool. That way we wouldn't have to go back to Denmark or go to Iceland for another Viking civ outside of Norway.
I'd be pretty excited by an Icelandic civ TBH, but it's hard to make a strong argument for it against just going with Norway again. The Kingdom of the Isles at least has the Norse-Gaelic thing going for it.

Picts would also be an interesting option for a more Classical Era approach, similar to the Gauls.
Too little known about them. We know very little of their language (though it was probably related to that of the Britons; theories that the Picts were pre-Indo-European are now generally regarded as fanciful). The Pictish king list is probably heavily embellished. If making a civ based on the Britons would be difficult, making one based on the Picts would be all but impossible.
 

BuchiTaton

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If a "celtic" civ is a must I think the best option is medieval Ireland (Gaelic). England and America as the anglo civs and France and Haiti as the french speaking ones.
 

Zaarin

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If a "celtic" civ is a must I think the best option is medieval Ireland (Gaelic).
Medieval Ireland or Classical Gaul, though they butchered Gaul in NFP.
 
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On the one hand, Aboriginal beliefs regarding the dead make them unlikely to want to be included.
Do you have source about that? Because is hard to believe we are allowed to use the image of leaders of all nations, but aboriginals don't allow his image. I think is more plausible Fireaxis just forget to include aboriginals then they are forbiden to do so.

On the other hand, they're also a very poor fit for the Civ model for the same reason as the Inuit, Khoisan, indigenous people of the Amazon, or Paleo-Siberians. I'd much rather see such people represented by city-states/minor civs. Agriculture and a sedentary lifestyle or pastoral nomadism (which is different from the hunter-gatherer nomadic lifestyle) should be prerequisites for being considered as a civilization IMO.
That is a point, theses stone age civilizations is hard to draw a Civ because a lack of leaders, city names and so on. But Australian's aborigenes are very unique and Fireaxis can do an effort to include them. Maybe some Unique Unit using Boomerangs should be cool to play with.

Moreover, speaking about aboriginals is also speaking about Blacks outside Africa. Because they are Black too.
By the way, in Solomon Island have a intersting ethinicity of Blacks with blond hair, they never was a great empire, but maybe we can made a Civ with them.
 

Zaarin

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Do you have source about that? Because is hard to believe we are allowed to use the image of leaders of all nations, but aboriginals don't allow his image. I think is more plausible Fireaxis just forget to include aboriginals then they are forbiden to do so.
Aboriginal Australians are not the only people in the world to have a taboo about depicting or naming the dead. For instance, most cultures in the northern regions of both Old and New World have taboos against naming the dead until the name has been passed on to a descendent. (When watching Brother Bear, I like to play a game called "count how many times the characters violate taboos." :mischief: ) However, the Aboriginal Australians are exceptionally strict about such matters. The Wikipedia article is a good start, as is this one on avoidance practices.

It's worth noting that when you say that most nations have no problem with the images of their ancestors being used, the overwhelming majority of leaders belong to one of three religions: Christianity, Islam, or Buddhism. None of these associates an individual's soul with the person's name or body (even Buddhism, which believes in transmigration of souls, i.e., reincarnation); Aboriginal religions do.
 
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@Henri Christophe, about your poll, I don't think anyone here will know United States as "EUA", but "USA". :p
Ops, my fault, and I can't fix it :undecide:
Maybe that is the why "EUA" don't receive any vote. I tought anyone wants Barack Obama as civ leader because he is so recently.
 

Evie

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Not that I’m going to make a huge case for Canada, but despite Canada’s ties to England, the in game is led by a french native speaker with a French name who partly speak French in the game whose country music is based on songs originally composed in french about french Canadians. Calling his civ Anglo is a bit of a stretch.

Canada (and any version of Canada we are likely to get in the game) is more of a Franco civ than an Anglo one as represented in game. So les in competition with USA and AUS, more with Haiti. Which I still would like to see.
 
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Do you have source about that? Because is hard to believe we are allowed to use the image of leaders of all nations, but aboriginals don't allow his image. I think is more plausible Fireaxis just forget to include aboriginals then they are forbiden to do so.
No we aren't allowed to use leaders of everyone. That's the reason why the Pueblo could not get into Civ 5.

(When watching Brother Bear, I like to play a game called "count how many times the characters violate taboos." :mischief: )
One does not watch Disney movies for historical accuracy. :p

Not that I’m going to make a huge case for Canada, but despite Canada’s ties to England, the in game is led by a french native speaker with a French name who partly speak French in the game whose country music is based on songs originally composed in french about french Canadians. Calling his civ Anglo is a bit of a stretch.

Canada (and any version of Canada we are likely to get in the game) is more of a Franco civ than an Anglo one as represented in game. So les in competition with USA and AUS, more with Haiti. Which I still would like to see.
Yeah that's my reasoning for replacing Canada for Haiti.
 
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