Blacks outside Africa

Who of these leaders would you like to see in next expansions?

  • Haiti

    Votes: 28 70.0%
  • Ahmadnegar Sultanate

    Votes: 1 2.5%
  • Palmares

    Votes: 3 7.5%
  • Seminoles

    Votes: 5 12.5%
  • EUA

    Votes: 2 5.0%
  • Brazil

    Votes: 10 25.0%
  • Olmec-XIcalanca

    Votes: 6 15.0%
  • Miskitos

    Votes: 2 5.0%
  • Garifuna

    Votes: 2 5.0%
  • Jamaica

    Votes: 3 7.5%
  • France

    Votes: 1 2.5%

  • Total voters
    40
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Yeah that's my reasoning for replacing Canada for Haiti.
I agree on that, now is needed some developer of Fireaxis see that and do something.
Despite Haiti dosen't speak French, but Creyole indeed.
Maybe Toussaint L'Ouverture speaks french, since he was a well educated guy. But will be more cool to see him speaking Creyole in the game.

 
I agree on that, now is needed some developer of Fireaxis see that and do something.
Despite Haiti dosen't speak French, but Creyole indeed.
Maybe Toussaint L'Ouverture speaks french, since he was a well educated guy. But will be more cool to see him speaking Creyole in the game.
Haiti has two official languages: French and Haitian Creole. Either way Haitian Creole is heavily inspired by French so it would be fair to call Haiti a Francophone nation no matter what.
 
Aboriginal Australians are not the only people in the world to have a taboo about depicting or naming the dead. For instance, most cultures in the northern regions of both Old and New World have taboos against naming the dead until the name has been passed on to a descendent. (When watching Brother Bear, I like to play a game called "count how many times the characters violate taboos." :mischief: ) However, the Aboriginal Australians are exceptionally strict about such matters. The Wikipedia article is a good start, as is this one on avoidance practices.
I was reading your article, and both said about a period of time that was forbiden use the name of death, after this period they can back to use his name again.
And not all aboriginal follow this believe, in your article it says is more common in Center Australia (the desert part).
And this avoiding names stigma, is just the first name. We can use a second name or nick name for a game purpose.
Said that, I would to advocate again in favor of Truganini leading the Tasmanian people, she was the last survivor of his people.


Haiti has two official languages: French and Haitian Creole. Either way Haitian Creole is heavily inspired by French so it would be fair to call Haiti a Francophone nation no matter what.
Toussaint L'Ouverture propably was fluent in both language. But I still believe is better option to he speak Creyole in the game, but I don't will be mad if he appears speaking french.
 
I still think the Gunditjmara are the only real viable Aboriginal civ. I'm trying to make a city list for them with out resorting to non-Gunditjmara names. Here is what I got so far (will update as I find more names):

1. Budj Bim (Their "capital". It is a settlement built on the side of Mount Eccles)

2. Deen Maar (It is an important spirit place for the Gunditjmara)

3. Kerup

4. Koon Doom (3 and 4 are place names for regions around Lake Condah)

5. Moyjil (traditional place name for Point Ritchie)

6. Parrang kuutcha (traditional name for Tower Hill)

7. Benwirra (Place name near Mount Richmond)

8. Mut te tehoke (Place name near Mount Abrupt)

9. Colorer (Place name near Mount Rouse)

10. Boroke (Place name near Mount Shadwell)
 
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I still think the Gunditjmara are the only real viable Aboriginal civ. I'm trying to make a city list for them with out resorting to non-Gunditjmara names. Here is what I got so far (will update as I find more names):

1. Budj Bim (Their "capital". It is a settlement built on the side of Mount Eccles)

2. Deen Maar (It is an important spirit place for the Gunditjmara)

3. Kerup

4. Koon Doom (3 and 4 are place names for regions around Lake Condah)

5. Moyjil (traditional place name for Point Ritchie)

6. Parrang kuutcha (traditional name for Tower Hill)

7. Benwirra (Place name near Mount Richmond)

8. Mut te tehoke (Place name near Mount Abrupt)

9. Colorer (Place name near Mount Rouse)

10. Boroke (Place name near Mount Shadwell)
Why do you think only Gunditjmara can be a civ? I never heard before about them, and after a quick research in google I don't found that much, they are just a small tribe. Why do you believe they are better than others? And who should be his leader, Unique Unit and Unique Improvment?

Have a list of cities is something important to have, most of theses civilizations of Australia have a lack of cities, I was thinking if Truganini become leader of Tasmania, it should use the nowadays Tasmanian cities as a game purpose.
 
Why do you believe they are better than others?

Because the Gunditjmara were the most advanced Aboriginal tribe.

The Gunditjmara were skilled engineers who built one of the earliest known aquaculture systems on Earth. The Gunditjmara had started eel farming, engineering a sophisticated system of stone eel runs and traps that are older than Stonehenge or the Pyramids. The Gunditjmara built more than 200 houses of basalt and wood with roofs of turf and branches around the shores of a lake in the wetlands, indicating they were living a settled agrarian lifestyle.

And who should be his leader

Probably some chief from the Eumeralla Wars.

Unique Unit and Unique Improvment?

Unique improvement can be something related to their aquaculture system. Don't know about their unique unit.

I was thinking if Truganini become leader of Tasmania, it should use the nowadays Tasmanian cities as a game purpose.

Picking someone who is known for being the last surviving person of their tribe due to ethnic cleansing isn't a good choice for a leader.
 
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The question is, the black suffer way more than any other human being in transatlantic slave trade and had the biggest human diaspora for Americas. Both slave trade and this black diaspora is outside the game totally and I believe it can have space to them, the blacks outside africa. Mainly Haiti.

Here in Brazil we give cota for Black, because Brazil is the most slavery country in Americas. I think a game from Americas should do the same, give a cota to Africans from Africa diaspora
If you want to represent black Americans, rather than including virtual unknowns, small, poor, uninfluential countries like Haiti (which would be like making Andorra a civ), and recent political figures who are still living (like Obama), just have more black Great people...i.e. Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, etc...
 
uninfluential countries like Haiti
I need to disagree on that. Haiti was very influencial in the end of global slavery because it was the first country of the western hemispheri to abolish slavery. Also it was the first black republic of the world.

Haiti is the most influential country of Western world and should be in game, isn't like Andorra.
 
I need to disagree on that. Haiti was very influencial in the end of global slavery because it was the first country of the western hemispheri to abolish slavery. Also it was the first black republic of the world.

Haiti is the most influential country of Western world and should be in game, isn't like Andorra.
That doesn't make it influential. It's a small, poor country that has had a minimal impact on world history. There are already black civs - Zulu, Mali/Songhai, Ethiopia. Haiti didn't influence the end of global slavery in any significant way, you will notice, slavery continued in the Western hemisphere for 90 years after the Haitian revolution.
 
I need to disagree on that. Haiti was very influencial in the end of global slavery because it was the first country of the western hemispheri to abolish slavery. Also it was the first black republic of the world.

Haiti is the most influential country of Western world and should be in game, isn't like Andorra.
I agree on the first part that Haiti did do something very historic. However calling it the most influential country of the western world is a stretch. By Western world I'm sure you mean just the Western Hemisphere, but I would consider that the U.S., not just because I'm from there.
 
Also it was the first black republic of the world.
Again, depends on how you define republic. I'll take a different vector from my last approach earlier today. There is evidence (and, even, in cases, recorded knowledge) that polities existed in Sub-Saharan Africa that had leadership that was neither hereditary nor theocratic, but chosen by other means, such as election by, "councils of elders," "accessions of gathered clans," or, "proof of achievements or accomplishments," and even, "ritual duels," that predate Haitian independence by several centuries. Are they discluded in the broad definition of, "republic," in your reckoning, when Haiti only lives up to the very broadest and most generic usage of the term, at best?
 
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I agree on the first part that Haiti did do something very historic. However calling it the most influential country of the western world is a stretch. By Western world I'm sure you mean just the Western Hemisphere, but I would consider that the U.S., not just because I'm from there.
Okay, if not the most influential country of the Western hemisphere, it is the second most influential just after the USA.
Let's remember the Haitian revolution and the French revolution was at the same time, so the same thing, and was theses revolutions who is the mark of the end of middle ages and start of modern age.


Again, depends on how you define republic. I'll take a different vector from my last approach earlier today. There is evidence (and, even, in cases, recorded knowledge) that polities existed in Sub-Saharan Africa that had leadership that was neither hereditary nor theocratic, but chosen by other means, such as election by, "councils of elders," "accessions of gathered clans," or, "proof of achievements or accomplishments," and even, "ritual duels," that predate Haitian independence by several centuries. Are they discluded in the broad definition of, "republic," in your reckoning, when Haiti only lives up to the very broadest and most generic usage of the term, at best?
I mean republic inspired in the USA model, with leaders called Presidents. Haiti was the first.
The first African country to become a Republic was Ghana, and that's just happens after the WWII.


But now "councils of elders," "accessions of gathered clans," "proof of achievements or accomplishments," and "ritual duels" are not Republics.
 
I mean republic inspired in the USA model, with leaders called Presidents. Haiti was the first.
The U.S. model is not the origin of the usage of the term, "republic," in history as a form of Government. You can't just arbitrarily decide that's where the definition starts in all of history and cut off all of many past examples, just to make a flawed and contrived point that is, in fact, not accurate.
Let's remember the Haitian revolution and the French revolution was at the same time, so the same thing
No, they're not the same thing at all, nor had even remotely close to the same impact on world history, just because they happened at the same time.
and was theses revolutions who is the mark of the end of middle ages and start of modern age.
Again, no, the Middle Ages are marked as ending in the 16th Century, at the latest, around 200 years or so, earlier.
But now "councils of elders," "accessions of gathered clans," "proof of achievements or accomplishments," and "ritual duels" are not Republics.
Why not? A, "republic," as used today, in the broadest and most generic sense of the definition of the term, is an independent polity whose leadership is not hereditary or theocratic, but has some sort of organized method of recognized succession. Haiti, itself, through the vast majority of its history, has only lived up to the definition of the term, "republic," in the broadest and most generic sense.
 
Calling Haiti an "African country" because it is controlled by black people makes as much sense as calling South Africa a "European country" because it was historically controlled by white people.
 
Calling Haiti an "African country" because it is controlled by black people makes as much sense as calling South Africa a "European country" because it was historically controlled by white people.
Haiti is a observer state of the African union, is South Africa observer state of Europe Union?
 
Haiti is a observer state of the African union, is South Africa observer state of Europe Union?
Why would it when it's part of the African Union? The first summit was held in South Africa.
 
Why would it when it's part of the African Union? The first summit was held in South Africa.
I thought it was held in Addis Ababa. Or are you sharply distinguishing it from its direct predecessor organization, the OAU?
 
I thought it was held in Addis Ababa. Or are you sharply distinguishing it from its direct predecessor organization, the OAU?
That was the most recent one and Addis Ababa is the headquarters. The first one was in Durban, South Africa in 2002.
 
Haiti is a observer state of the African union, is South Africa observer state of Europe Union?
South Africa was a Commonwealth Dominion with veto power over King Edward VIII's marriage to Wallis Simpson...when was Haiti ever so influential?
Rhodesia would have likely achieved Dominion status had it not been betrayed in the 1960s.
 
Are we supposed to be impressed by countries being promoted to Commonwealth Dominions in the early 1900s?

Because even Newfoundland was worth a commonwealth dominion before South Africa...
 
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