Blacks outside Africa

[Henri Christophe]

A list of person who can lead a civilization or at least be a Unique General.
Haiti-Toussaint L'Ouverture

India - Malik Ambar

Brazil - Zumbi dos Palmares

Seminole- John Horse

Japan- Yassuke

Russia - Gannibal

USA-Barack Obama

Brazil - Nilo Peçanha

Olmec-Xicalnca - 3Deer

Miskitos - George I

Garifunas - I can't find a leader, but they can appear as a City State.

Jamaica - Queen Nanny

France - Alexander Dumas

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Zumbi doesn't really make sense as a Leader of Brazil.

Yasuke never formally lead any political institution in Japan, so he wouldn't make sense.

While Gannibal would be nice, there are better options like Ivan the Terrible, Alexander II, and Catherine the Great.

Barack Obama is too recent and too controversial a President, so a no from me.

...I won't get into the Olmec debate.

George I was either mostly or completely white... I'm not sure if he's mixed or not.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I choose Haiti and Nilo Pecanha, although I would rather Pedro I for Brazil.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Zumbi doesn't really make sense as a Leader of Brazil.

Yasuke never formally lead any political institution in Japan, so he wouldn't make sense.

While Gannibal would be nice, there are better options like Ivan the Terrible, Alexander II, and Catherine the Great.

Barack Obama is too recent and too controversial a President, so a no from me.

...I won't get into the Olmec debate.

George I was either mostly or completely white... I'm not sure if he's mixed or not.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I choose Haiti and Nilo Pecanha, although I would rather Pedro I for Brazil.

Yeah, Zumbi should be lead his own Civilization called Palmares.

Yasuke was the greatest Samurai of Oda Nabonaga, but it can be at least a Great General.

I also don't know that much about George I, do you think he is compretely white? this kind of old fotos make everything hard to know, but he was king of Miskitos who are mix race of Black and Mayas

Edit> I found it about George I, here is a mixed race, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Frederic_Augustus_I

 

[Evie]

Haiti has probably one of the best cases out of all non-indigenous American civilizations. Would love to see them.

Seminole would be nice, though they're not particularly high priority for me compared to other Native Americans group. Not black, though (though some of their members were, the tribe as a whole was not, and its main leaders were not).

Palmares - interesting people, but probably too small to be considered a civ. Would be an interesting option for a CS though. Zumbi would make no sense as a leader of Brazil.

Nilo Pecanha is an interesting choice, but I suspect there are more impactufl leader if Brazil were ever to get a second one. And I'm not too hot on that.

Ahmadnagar is a short-lived minor Indian statelet. It's very, very far down the Indian priority list - if we have a civ game where we serious, consider them we're looking at hundreds or thousands of civs already in the game. No from me at this point.

USA are already in of course, but while I'm on the fairly favorable to Obama, he's just too recent to be properly evaluated as a potential American leader in civ. Maybe in Civ 20 or so, once we have a more historical perspective on him.

Yasuke was a retainer of some note (greatest samurai...is a bit of a bold claim). I don't think a great general is quite the right fit (he didn't lead troops) but it's probably the closest we have, since heroes and legends are mythological figures (which he is not).

Olmec-Xicalanca are still not black, and still very, very low on importance for Civ inclusion since they are basically a minor Mayan subgroup.

Gannibal as a great general (he was a military officer and engineer, so an artillery commander) has my full support. As a leader for Russia, not so much,

George I and the Miskito is an interesting thought. Like the Seminole thy were mostly a native group, but with a much stronger black influence. I don't know if George himself was mixed. They also would represent Natives from the region between Mesoamerica and the Andes, which is not so easy. Not a very high priority, but while I did not vote for them at first, in hindsight I think I'm not against includinf them.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Haiti probably has the only shot of getting in.

Some of the choices make no sense at all though we've had plenty discussions about them already.

Barack Obama is too recent and too controversial a President, so a no from me.

Not to mention he's also still alive.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Gannibal as a great general (he was a military officer and engineer, so an artillery commander) has my full support. As a leader for Russia, not so much,

Me too. Going from a captured African slave in the Ottoman court to the adopted son of Peter the Great is quite the feat.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Seminole would be nice, though they're not particularly high priority for me compared to other Native Americans group. Not black, though (though some of their members were, the tribe as a whole was not, and its main leaders were not).

About Seminole's main leader, John Horse and Negro Abraham was one of they.

Palmares - interesting people, but probably too small to be considered a civ. Would be an interesting option for a CS though. Zumbi would make no sense as a leader of Brazil.

Yes, the idea is Zumbi come as leader of Palmares, other good option is Ganga Zumba, the first king.

Nilo Pecanha is an interesting choice, but I suspect there are more impactufl leader if Brazil were ever to get a second one. And I'm not too hot on that.

It can be an alternative leader to Brazil, other options to alt leader to Brazil is Getulio Vargas or stay with Pedro II forever.

Ahmadnagar is a short-lived minor Indian statelet. It's very, very far down the Indian priority list - if we have a civ game where we serious, consider them we're looking at hundreds or thousands of civs already in the game. No from me at this point.

Ahmadnagar Sultanate is my favorite in India because their leader history. It isn't easy to find someone who was enslaved become so powerfull.

Olmec-Xicalanca are still not black, and still very, very low on importance for Civ inclusion since they are basically a minor Mayan subgroup.

I hope one day he can be an alt leader to Maya. He is not black black, but have a darker skin than other native americans and use black dye to be even more black.

George I and the Miskito is an interesting thought. Like the Seminole thy were mostly a native group, but with a much stronger black influence. I don't know if George himself was mixed. They also would represent Natives from the region between Mesoamerica and the Andes, which is not so easy. Not a very high priority, but while I did not vote for them at first, in hindsight I think I'm not against includinf them.

He was mix, I found it in his Wikipedia page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Frederic_Augustus_I

 

[Kupe Navigator]

A list of person who can lead a civilization or at least be a Unique General.
Haiti-Toussaint L'Ouverture

India - Malik Ambar

Brazil - Zumbi dos Palmares

Seminole- John Horse

Japan- Yassuke

Russia - Gannibal

USA-Barack Obama

Brazil - Nilo Peçanha

Olmec-Xicalnca - 3Deer

Miskitos - George I

Garifunas - I can't find a leader, but they can appear as a City State.

what about Asians outside of Asia? Heck Peru had Japanese leader at one point:

so why don't you make a list for Asians?

 

[Henri Christophe]

what about Asians outside of Asia? Heck Peru had Japanese leader at one point:

so why don't you make a list for Asians?

cool idea, but I think he is so new to be in the game, who more can compound our list of Asians outside Asia?

 

[Kupe Navigator]

cool idea, but I think he is so new to be in the game, who more can compound our list of Asians outside Asia?

the point is this "blacks outside of africa" representation isn't useful or needed at all.
Why can't Africa be used to represent blacks? Didn't most blacks came from Africa?
I am not unhappy that we don't get Representative of Asians outside of Asia like me.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Said BIn Sultan was from Omã and become Sultan in Zanzibar, Africa.
More one for our new series, Asians outside Asia.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Said BIn Sultan was from Omã and become Sultan in Zanzibar, Africa.
More one for our new series, Asians outside Asia.

that dosen't count as he was Arabs and Zanzibar at the time was under heavy Arabic influence. That would be like saying muhammad ali of egypt is european in Africa.
We don't need "X race outside of X"

 

[Henri Christophe]

that dosen't count as he was Arabs and Zanzibar at the time was under heavy Arabic influence. That would be like saying muhammad ali of egypt is european in Africa.
We don't need "X race outside of X"

The question is, the black suffer way more than any other human being in transatlantic slave trade and had the biggest human diaspora for Americas. Both slave trade and this black diaspora is outside the game totally and I believe it can have space to them, the blacks outside africa. Mainly Haiti.

Here in Brazil we give cota for Black, because Brazil is the most slavery country in Americas. I think a game from Americas should do the same, give a cota to Africans from Africa diaspora

 

[jasper]

Put a none option.

None.

Stop making this racial. Start making it gamial. Chose leaders because of interest, accomplishment or whatever. Adds things people are going to have fun with and if it isnt "black related" then so be it.

Civ is entertainment. Civ is not a liberal arts racial injustice platform. Make it fun. If black aint fun then thats ok. Not everything asian, white, Hispanic etc is fun either.

Stop making sugestions based on race, skin color and diversity. We need more black great people, more black religions, black city states, black commodities, black zombies. Enough already.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

The question is, the black suffer way more than any other human being in transatlantic slave trade and had the biggest human diaspora for Americas. Both slave trade and this black diaspora is outside the game totally and I believe it can have space to them, the blacks outside africa. Mainly Haiti.

All lives matter not just blacks.

Stop making sugestions based on race, skin color and diversity. We need more black great people, more black religions, black city states, black commodities, black zombies. Enough already.

yes enough is enough.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

The question is, the black suffer way more than any other human being in transatlantic slave trade and had the biggest human diaspora for Americas. Both slave trade and this black diaspora is outside the game totally and I believe it can have space to them, the blacks outside africa. Mainly Haiti.

This is the problem with your argument. Obviously, Black people suffered the most from the Transatlantic Slave Trade, because they were the biggest denominator of Slaves in that trade area. BUT, White people were the people who suffered the most from Barbary Corsairs and Raids by them. If you isolate your argument to one particular area, it's bound to fail.

 

[Ryansinbela]

Every group has suffered once. No culture is perfect

 

[Henri Christophe]

Put a none option.

None.

Stop making this racial. Start making it gamial. Chose leaders because of interest, accomplishment or whatever. Adds things people are going to have fun with and if it isnt "black related" then so be it.

Civ is entertainment. Civ is not a liberal arts racial injustice platform. Make it fun. If black aint fun then thats ok. Not everything asian, white, Hispanic etc is fun either.

Stop making sugestions based on race, skin color and diversity. We need more black great people, more black religions, black city states, black commodities, black zombies. Enough already.

I also make it "gamial". Haiti has the accomplishment of start the end of world slavery and be the only enslaved nation to rise in power, fight against France, Spain, and UK at same time and won. ANd I would have fun to play with they.

For me is very fun to see representativety. But I don't miss just Blacks of Diaspora, but I also miss native americans in the lack of this game diversity.

This is the problem with your argument. Obviously, Black people suffered the most from the Transatlantic Slave Trade, because they were the biggest denominator of Slaves in that trade area. BUT, White people were the people who suffered the most from Barbary Corsairs and Raids by them. If you isolate your argument to one particular area, it's bound to fail.

Is incomparable the two examples, nothing in the world was worst than the transatlantic slavery. And we also had Jim Crow laws in America and Apartheid in Africa and just finish just recently.

If this game have the power to do something in respect of it, why not do it? This game have much power, for example, I just know about Iroquois and Zulus because this game, I'm sure if this game choice someblack nation of diaspora will make more players learn about cool afro-american civs and empodering they.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

othing in the world was worst than the transatlantic slavery

AHEM!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731#:~:text=Japanese researchers performed tests on,used to spread bubonic plague.
Nothing in the world eh?

And we also had Jim Crow laws in America and Apartheid in Africa and just finish just recently.

what about crimes of Imperial Japan?

 

[Henri Christophe]

what about crimes of Imperial Japan?

even the holocaust of Hitler isn't so terrible as Transatlantic slave trade.