Blackwater looks to expand domestic role...

[Little Raven]

Coming soon to a disaster site near you!

The company has met with leaders in several states to offer their security services in the event of a natural disaster. In California, they have suggested earthquake relief. In New York, they offered help in case of terrorist attack.

Their thinking is simple. The Iraq war won't last forever, so if the company wants to stick around, it needs an alternate business plan. Work here at home is one solution.

I suppose it's the natural progression. If we're going to privatize our overseas operations, why not our national guard? It’s not like they don’t do a good job.

For all the criticism Blackwater is enduring now, as Davis sees it, the company's employees were a godsend after Katrina. They helped keep tempers calm during a tense situation, she said.
For example, inside the recovery office, employees had a code. If workers felt uncomfortable or didn't feel safe, they were supposed to call out loudly for a "blue form." That was a signal for one of the Blackwater guys to come over and stand close by. Their mere presence did a lot to calm rattled homeowners who were frustrated with the FEMA process. Davis said it let the people coming into FEMA know they needed to keep their voices down.

Of course, they are a little bit more expensive, but they pack a LOT more firepower and don’t have to worry about that whole accountability thing. Heck, it’s hard to get people to even talk about them because they’re so good.

FEMA declined to talk about its decision to hire Blackwater for its Katrina staff security. A spokesman would only say that there was indeed a contract.

Similarly, the Sheraton Hotel in New Orleans, which had heralded the arrival of Blackwater in a press release in the days after the hurricane, declined to discuss the company now.

The head of Blackwater's domestic operations, James Flatley, would not be interviewed.

At any rate, I think their record pretty much speaks for itself. They're discreet. They're effective. I know I’ll certainly feel an overwhelming urge to stay calm if I’m ever in an area under their ‘protection.’ What more could you want in a domestic security force?

 

[Bugfatty300]

Private security forces have existed for a LONG time in the US. Every time you see armed security guards the mall or a celebrity walking down the red carpet surrounded by bodyguards packing heat you see part of that industry.

Blackwater has some shady operational history in Iraq. Lots of horror stories from New Orleans which were all false I believe and they carry black rifles. They've a lot of bad press.

Of course, they are a little bit more expensive, but they pack a LOT more firepower and don’t have to worry about that whole accountability thing.

Blackwater had unregistered NFA weapons including some they shipped illegally to iraq but (I think) in NO their weapons were no more than what a private citizen can own. In the US I think they'd be treated a lot differently law wise than in Iraq.

 

[Little Raven]

Private security forces have existed for a LONG time in the US.

Oh, they certainly have at that. And yes, I'm sure that a multinational company worth hundreds of millions of dollars is completely equivalent to the rent-a-cops at the mall.

Blackwater had unregistered NFA weapons in Iraq but (I think) in NO their weapons were no more than what a private citizen can own.

You think wrong.

Accounts of Blackwater personnel carrying M-16s and other assault weapons around the devastated city have appeared on dozens of Web sites, including sites in Europe, Canada and Australia. Many of the reports compare Blackwater’s presence in New Orleans to the company’s work in Iraq, where it has been a major provider of private security guards for the U.S.-led coalition.

...

“They were not deputized. They are not law enforcement,” she said. “They were hired much like any other security guard is hired, to protect a place or people.”

She said Blackwater has a letter from Louisiana authorities authorizing its personnel to carry loaded weapons. Initially, some of them were heavily armed, she said, but now that the threat has been determined to be more “benign” than originally thought, they are carrying only handguns.

They can carry what they want, when they want. When they are deployed, they are not limited by local or even Federal statutes. Their only authority is the company. It has to be that way. The entire reason you're calling Blackwater in is because local authorities (ostensibly) can't deal with the situation.

Yawn.

 

[Bugfatty300]

You think wrong.

The artical says M16s and "assault weapons."

In the media M16 usually = AR-15 which is legal for private citizens in most of the US including Louisianan and New Orleans. Same with "assault weapons." There was an unbalance because the police confiscated weapons illegally from private citizens.

They can carry what they want, when they want.

The article doesn't say that. They would have been violating all sorts of laws to be carrying around unregistered machine guns.

 

[Ecofarm]

You think wrong.

They can carry what they want, when they want. When they are deployed, they are not limited by local or even Federal statutes. Their only authority is the company. It has to be that way. The entire reason you're calling Blackwater in is because local authorities (ostensibly) can't deal with the situation.

Yawn.

That's rediculous. They can carry "whatever" they want and are not limited by local or even Federal statues? Says who? Where?

Accounts of Blackwater personnel carrying M-16s and other assault weapons around the devastated city have appeared on dozens of Web sites, including sites in Europe, Canada and Australia.

I doubt very much that those were fully automatic (M16A1) or 3 round burst (M16A2) rifles. I think they were semiautomatic (AR15) rifles. Perhaps the carbine version of the semi-auto (CAR15). The only way they could carry full auto weapons is if they were allowed to carry weapons for which they have a speciality license while working (and I doubt that is the case). You know, an 18 year old can buy an assault rifle (not auto-fire) in the US... without a background check, and without registration. Exactly how do assault rifles prove "they can carry whatever they want"?

Unless there is a law that I am unaware of, which allows people holding speciality licenses to carry those weapons at work, you think wrong. Private companies are not exempt from local, state, or federal authority... c'mon.

Your point sounds to me like:
Blackwater = Brownshirts!

 

[Little Raven]

That's rediculous. They can carry "whatever" they want and are not limited by local or even Federal statues? Says who? Where?

Says the fact that there is no mechanism for accountability when dealing with a private security firm like Blackwater.

Assume that you have reason to believe that Blackwater employees are misbehaving. Who would you complain to? What could they do?

Pretty much the only thing local officials can do is cancel the contract. Blackwater has no public information constraints. They don't have to answer any questions they don't want to. They're global, so if someone needs to leave the jurisdiction for a while, that's easily arranged.

Unless there is a law that I am unaware of, which allows people holding speciality licenses to carry those weapons at work, you think wrong. Private companies are not exempt from local, state, or federal authority... c'mon.

It doesn't matter what the law says if there is no mechanism for enforcing it. How do you enforce it on an entity like Blackwater?

Blackwater = Brownshirts!

I wish. The Brownshirts were at least limited to a single country.

 

[IglooDame]

Blackwater used domestically scares me like little else does - they're the worst combination of government and corporate power. They can hide behind "national security" and at the same time have no obligation to use what is effectively police power for the public good.

 

[Little Raven]

The article doesn't say that. They would have been violating all sorts of laws to be carrying around unregistered machine guns.

Why would Blackwater care if they were violating the law? Are police going to arrest them in the wake of a disaster? They're on the same side!

 

[Ecofarm]

I'm still waiting for evidence that they can carry whatever they want.

Anyway, why do you think that Blackwater personel cannot be prosecuted? Further, why do you think that they could avoid prosecution by transferring to an international post?

They can be arrested just like any other citizen, that is how they are held accountable. Police do arrest other police officers, you know? Soldiers arrest other soldiers... It's not like "being on the same side" means you can do whatever you want - with absolute impunity! You've provided no evidence that Blackwater is magically "beyond the law" except saying it over and over.

Calling them international brownshirts is downright hysterics.

 

[Jawz II]

Blackwater used domestically scares me like little else does - they're the worst combination of government and corporate power. They can hide behind "national security" and at the same time have no obligation to use what is effectively police power for the public good.

You got it. There are so many reasons for feeling that way.

Funny how right wing folks don't see anything wrong in removing authority from the police and giving it to a private firm. There should be heads rolling inside the New Orleans police structure. Many many heads.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Are police going to arrest them in the wake of a disaster? They're on the same side!

If they are police that are worth a damn.

 

[Little Raven]

Why do you think that Blackwater personel cannot be prosecuted?

Because it's very, very hard to prosecute police officers, and they DO have to comply with public information requests.

Blackwater was quite content to blow off Congress when it wanted answers. You really think they're going to care what some local prosecutor's office says?

Further, why do you think that they could avoid prosecution by moving to an international post?

Is this a serious question?

Blackwater runs a nice little operation in Azerbaijan. Do you know what our extradition treaty with Azerbaijan looks like?

Oh, that's right. We don't have one.

They can be arrested just like any other citizen, that is how they are held accountable.

But they're not just like any other citizen, as the aftermath of NO shows. Or do you have examples of other 'ordinary citizens' confiscating weapons from homeowners in the wake of the hurricane? After all, Blackwater had not been deputized. They were just ordinary folks, right?

 

[Ecofarm]

They are JUST a security company! No-one deputized them. No-one gave them police powers.

"Hiding behind national security"? In what way? No obligation to use what is NOT police power for the public good? Their obligation is to whoever hires them, if they perform poorly, they get fired. If they break the law, they get arrested.

Are you saying that private security firms should no longer be allowed in the US? Are you saying that local governments should be banned from hiring them? Miami-Dade County hires a private security firm to secure the monorail here. Should that be put to a stop immediatly? Should Disney World be required to hire government employees?

Should we also outlaw private investigators? They do police-like stuff too.

Regarding congress... what attorney doesn't delay and drag his feet? Did congress decide "oh well, we can't do anything, Blackwater is beyond prosecution"? No, I don't think they did.

Regarding extradition treaties, the last I checked, it was not legal for a company to employ a known felon and fugitive... Nor is it legal for them to assist one, materially or otherwise, to flee. Anyone who assisted in such a thing would be breaking the law and also prosecutable.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Or do you have examples of other 'ordinary citizens' confiscating weapons from homeowners in the wake of the hurricane? After all, Blackwater had not been deputized. They were just ordinary folks, right?

Blackwater confiscated guns? Care to source that?

 

[Little Raven]

Are you saying that private security firms should no longer be allowed in the US? Are you saying that local governments should be banned from hiring them? Miami-Dade County hires a private security firm to secure the monorail here. Should that be put to a stop immediatly?

Has anyone said anything like that?

There's a big difference in scope here, Eco. A local security company with 100 employees just doesn't have the same power as a billion dollar multi-national private army. Blackwater operates around the globe. It has helicopters, military hardware, and contacts in the highest levels of many governments, including our own. The potential for abuse is staggering. Surely you see why people would be concerned about widening their operations on US soil.

 

[Ecofarm]

Do you have any idea how big "Wells Fargo" is? They are also a multi-billion dollar company with helicopters, etc.

I doubt that Blackwater has military hardware. They have what is legal to purchase and possess by private citizens and companies.

They are not para-military. They are not subject to the UCMJ. They are private citizens in a security firm, nothing new, and no special privledges.

You make so many outrageous claims, and you have nothing to back those claims up.

1) Prove they can use military hardware, or any special weaponry, in the US.

2) Prove they are beyond prosecution. Sorry, but "cops will not arrest them because they are on the same side" is on a level upon which you could argue with George, but not me.

3) Prove that the company is exempt from federal law and will be allowed to assist and harbor fugitives from the law in foreign countries. The idea that they can just transfer to a foreign post for a few years and come back is absurd. There is no statute of limitations on 'fleeing from federal charges'. They would be prosecuted if they ever stepped foot back on US soil, or any country that would extradite. Further, the company (and it's executives directly) would be prosecuted for any assistence provided.

I also love how you've decided that anyone who does not share your hysterics and "The Brownshirts are Comming!" insanity is automatically a neo-con. I guess when you have no argument, it's time to start calling names.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Has anyone said anything like that?

There's a big difference in scope here, Eco. A local security company with 100 employees just doesn't have the same power as a billion dollar multi-national private army. Blackwater operates around the globe. It has helicopters, military hardware, and contacts in the highest levels of many governments, including our own. The potential for abuse is staggering. Surely you see why people would be concerned about widening their operations on US soil.

There are lots of international multi-billion dollar security companies many times the size of Blackwater operating in the US and around the world. Yes they have helicopters too and their "military hardware" are weapons that private citizens and corporations can own. So why is it that Blackwater is the big bad evil company. Answer: Their involvement in Iraq.

(Still waiting for the "Blackwater confiscated guns in New Orleans" source)

 

[Masquerouge]

Hey you guys remember this?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,,2118908,00.html

Russia's parliament voted yesterday to allow the country's two biggest energy monopolies, Gazprom and the state oil pipeline company Transneft, to employ and arm private security units. Under the deal, Russia's interior ministry will supply Gazprom with guns from its own armoury.

Just saying

 

[Ecofarm]

Comparing the US to Russia is a little rough. The US is not exactly some second world, mob run neuvo-democracy. Will Russia also be supplying uniforms? Haha. Who in the US would hire a security company that could not afford it's own weapons?

But your concern is noted.

*double checks weapon cache*

 

[Little Raven]

There are lots of international multi-billion dollar security companies many times the size of Blackwater operating in the US.

Really? Care to cite? What do they do? Where have they operated? What's their track record?

There seems to be some confusions at to whether or not Blackwater employees were actually confiscating guns. I can cite blog posts but no media. So I'll grant that. However, I can cite that Blackwater employees were allowed to keep their guns when ordinary citizens were not. They were not deputized. They were not acting on behalf of public authorities. If they're just ordinary citizens, why were they packing?

Regarding congress... what attorney doesn't delay and drag his feet?

The type that I want involved in law enforcement?

Regarding extradition treaties, the last I checked, it was not legal for a company to employ a known felon and fugitive

Are you joking? You don't wait until the guy is a felon to move him out of the country. You move him, and anything else involved, at the first sign of trouble. Maybe lose a little paperwork on the way. It's not like Blackwater has to listen to some district prosecutor. Congress has had to pull teeth just to get answers. What's the little guy on the totem pole going to do?

There's nothing wrong with the notion of private security companies. Blackwater has a worse reputation than most, and it's probably well-deserved. (according to my brother, who was in Iraq, even the DynCorp guys called Blackwater cowboys, and they were pretty hard-core themselves.) But when private security companies start taking over public security functions, there's a real potential for abuse. And that's exactly what Blackwater is suggesting they should do. They're not offering to guard malls for shoplifters. They want in on the big stuff - taking over where we would traditionally rely on the National Guard. Does that really strike you as a good idea?