Blair wants euro in 2007
- Thread starter Stapel
- Start date
hawai_74
mac über alles
cool, i thought he wanted to convert £ in $
Egad! Sorry, but I don't think the public will go for that. Me either. Don't look for a rational explanation, there isn't one. I just feel my spine stiffening at the very idea.
We fought Hitler, you know! In the war! They don't play by our rules!
We fought Hitler, you know! In the war! They don't play by our rules!
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
That is the exact reason why the EU is so important to me. The EU is about building European peace. Churchill, one of the greatest british Prime Minister (if not the greatest) declared just after the war he wished the unification of Europe for the good of the Peace in Europe. He wanted that unification to be made democratically and that's exactly what it is about. He knew it would be hard but he was confident on the fact his people and other European people will understand it is no more time for distrust and suspicion between European nations.
The European Union project had been launched just after the war between two countries who had deadly fought one against the other during more than a century. On the June, 6th 2004 in Normandy, we will celebrate the 60th anniversary of the Liberation of France by Canada, the United Kingdom and the United States. Gehrardt Schröder will be here to celebrate this anniversary along with Jacques Chirac and Tony Blair (Bush didn't tell yet if he'll come). This is a strong symbol and that shows you if you didn't already got it that Germany is no more in the side of Hitler.
Time for resentment towards people is gone in Europe. We're here to celebrate Peace. If European countries would still think of the wars they all had between each other... it would never end... so please join us, for the Good of Humanity as a whole.
Sadly most polls in the Uk indicate that the move from the pound to the euro would be extremely unpopular. The reasons are various but essentially come down to two
emotional - we've had the pound for centuries and its a symbol of our nationality and independence
economic - the ability to manipulate one's currency exchange rate is an essential part of controlling the national economy.
Blair will not hold a referendum unless he believes that he can win these two arguments.
emotional - we've had the pound for centuries and its a symbol of our nationality and independence
economic - the ability to manipulate one's currency exchange rate is an essential part of controlling the national economy.
Blair will not hold a referendum unless he believes that he can win these two arguments.
Oh, I totally agree with the principle of unification, but then when it gets down to practicalities like a common currency it becomes a question of 'Give up our lovely British Pound Sterling? For froggy kraut euro money? You must be joking!'
Don't take offence, it's not rational. Not rational at all. I'm one of the most rational people you could meet, and I think in principle it's a really good idea, but when it comes to persuading me about it, I'll be doing the mental equivalent of sticking my fingers in my ears and going 'La! La! La! La! I can't hear you!'
I'll bet there are Brits here who know what I mean, and then some of the English will know exactly what I mean.
Really evidently, it's an irrational response to what is a good idea.
Don't take offence, it's not rational. Not rational at all. I'm one of the most rational people you could meet, and I think in principle it's a really good idea, but when it comes to persuading me about it, I'll be doing the mental equivalent of sticking my fingers in my ears and going 'La! La! La! La! I can't hear you!'
I'll bet there are Brits here who know what I mean, and then some of the English will know exactly what I mean.
Really evidently, it's an irrational response to what is a good idea.
Portuguese
Vassalising Spain
£ is going to disappear, sooner or later...
Better sooner.
Better sooner.
hawai_74
mac über alles
I know that the pound exists for centuries, but what about the greek "drachmes" this change lasted for 36 centuries, so not so many centuries for £. In fact, UK likes europe without Germany and specially "froggy" France.
Hitro
Feistus Raclettus
First Iraq, now this. Is he desperate not to get re-elected? 
Some random arguments as to why EMU might not be a good idea:
Assume GB joins the EMU:
- 1 currency
- 1 central bank
-1 set of fiscal policies
Edit: ahem - fiscal policies of the government will collide with the policies of the central bank - even though both sets of policies could be used to stabilize an economy.
assume now that both Germany and France suffer a recession, while GB experience great economic growth
now - given the last two elements, that would require the European Central Bank to enforce fiscal policies that are to the benefit of France and Germany, but works against GB
--> Would have been easier for me to describe it all in Norwegian, but I hope it is understandable
the issue here, is that at all times, some countries expand and some contract - much like firms - and with the EMU, your country's situation will be worsened -> "no chain is stronger than the weakest link"
now - the Pound as a currency has some history, but to bring that into the debate is slightly irrational IMO - as money has only representative value
Assume GB joins the EMU:
- 1 currency
- 1 central bank
-1 set of fiscal policies
Edit: ahem - fiscal policies of the government will collide with the policies of the central bank - even though both sets of policies could be used to stabilize an economy.
assume now that both Germany and France suffer a recession, while GB experience great economic growth
now - given the last two elements, that would require the European Central Bank to enforce fiscal policies that are to the benefit of France and Germany, but works against GB
--> Would have been easier for me to describe it all in Norwegian, but I hope it is understandable
the issue here, is that at all times, some countries expand and some contract - much like firms - and with the EMU, your country's situation will be worsened -> "no chain is stronger than the weakest link"
now - the Pound as a currency has some history, but to bring that into the debate is slightly irrational IMO - as money has only representative value
Yoda Power
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This is great, though he certainly wont get reelected now.
I hope the English people will come to their senses. As should the Danish and Swedish people. 
Yoda Power
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Actually if we had moved the Euro voting by a year it would have been a Yes to the EuroOriginally posted by Matrix
I hope the English people will come to their senses. As should the Danish and Swedish people.
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
Well, he can have several euros if he nicks off to the Continent on or before that date. I'll pass the hat around.
Hayek
Old Whig
What are Blair's current chances of winning next year's election I wonder? I have got the impression that Michael Howard's doing a good job for the Tories. I might well be wrong, though, I'm not even British. Anyway, I hope and believe that if Blair gets reelected, the people reject the Euro. As Paalikles said, it's just one-size-fits-all, but doesn't really fit anybody.
Nad
Known Troublemaker
Yes to the Euro!!!
About the only current Blair policy I support, although I would have liked a referendum much earlier.
As a businessman, economically the Euro is indisputably a good move. The only rational anti-Euro economic arguments depend on the assumption that the Euro will fail or that the loss of a monetary policy tool will make it very difficult to control economic growth.
The answer is simple: you use fiscal policy to help align economic cycles, but that can be politically damaging cos you get knee-jerk anti-tax hysteria.
I hope that when the referendum comes round the pro-Euro parties can educate the generally ignorant British public; sentimentality is all well and good but being richer is even better
About the only current Blair policy I support, although I would have liked a referendum much earlier.
As a businessman, economically the Euro is indisputably a good move. The only rational anti-Euro economic arguments depend on the assumption that the Euro will fail or that the loss of a monetary policy tool will make it very difficult to control economic growth.
The answer is simple: you use fiscal policy to help align economic cycles, but that can be politically damaging cos you get knee-jerk anti-tax hysteria.
I hope that when the referendum comes round the pro-Euro parties can educate the generally ignorant British public; sentimentality is all well and good but being richer is even better
Emperor Xerxes
Custom User Title? NEVER!
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Greece was part of Rome, the Byzantium then the Ottomon Empire until its independence in 1832 (I think it was) which means that when the old currency was re-adopted then dropped again for the Euro it was technically younger than the pound.
My reasons for being against the Euro when I was younger were irrational patriotic and emotional feelings that were, quite frankly, dangerous. Nowadays I am still against it, though due to economic reasons; the Euro is very young and not massively successful and would remove significant economic control from the UK. Germany has run into economic problems because they can't set their own rates for instance. I could, however, be persuaded to support the Euro, particually if it is successful in the other nations.
Probably, trade would become easier.....
well - if the central bank increases interest rates, and screw up one economy to save another, I d say that is troublesome, to say the least.
Monetary policies are more easily used to stabilize than fiscal policies though, which could be a good thing.
However I doubt that much use of fiscal policies would be possible, as there will be a conflict between fiscal and monetary policy when for instance tax cuts increases demand, which increases inflation, which calls for -
- increased interest rates. Of course, one would have to look at both short and long term effects, but my point still stands.As long as the EU is a loose union, one cannot expect a monetary union to work as planned - since there will be a conflict between that which would benefit each country and that which would benefit the unioun (or said differently: individual vs collective rationalism)
Hayek
Old Whig
I doubt, however, that countries are ready to take such a blow. Look at France and Germany, they are not being very fiscally responsible and why should they really? They only take a part of the blow now that the stability pact has died (if it ever really lived). At worst, the Euro encourages fiscal irresponsibility.
I'd hope personally that conditions for businesses would be improved anyway, outside of the Eurozone. With tax-cuts and lowering public spending. I don't think the pros outweigh the cons about the Euro, sadly for those countries participating in it (my country, among others), I might be wrong, though.
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
On September 2003, Sweden decided to not talk anymore about the uro untill 2013... just think how old you will all be in 2013...
To me, it was clear that if Sweden made that choice, than the UK won't be part of the uro before that date... so I'm really surprized about Blair's statement and I'm sure it won't happen that soon.
By the way, there's a word to define that "emotional feeling against the froggy kraut euro money", it's generally called xenophobia.
To me, it was clear that if Sweden made that choice, than the UK won't be part of the uro before that date... so I'm really surprized about Blair's statement and I'm sure it won't happen that soon.
By the way, there's a word to define that "emotional feeling against the froggy kraut euro money", it's generally called xenophobia.
