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Blasting House

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by krasny, Apr 26, 2009.

  1. krasny

    krasny Prince

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    Is Blasting House overly powerful?

    For very little effort in building it, you get an endless stream of fireball spewing golems.

    I had about twenty such golems in a stack and they were able to cast 20 fireballs at a city THEN attack the city.
     
  2. Imuratep

    Imuratep Cultist of the Old Ones

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    It's a good reward for getting through a weak start.
     
  3. Seon

    Seon Not An Evil Liar

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    Also to compensate for the fact that those golems are painfully slow...
     
  4. krasny

    krasny Prince

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    Being able to build a handful of units with fireball would be a good reward for a weak start.

    However I do think that unlimited units with fireballs is way to powerful.
     
  5. dyx

    dyx Chieftain

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    And that they can't get promotions... I think it's fine.
     
  6. WarKirby

    WarKirby Arty person

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    I think the luchuirp need a lot more stuff, in general.

    personally, I'd love to see their golems have lots of little upgrade promotions, which you have to buy, rather than gain through xp, like master equipment in FF.
     
  7. Giga-Gigan

    Giga-Gigan Warlord

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    Another system for dishing out promotions could be a modified ship promotion line, allowing golems to swap between different promotions with different strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps only cast able when a dwarf is in the stack.
     
  8. JonathanStrange

    JonathanStrange PrinceWithA1000Enemies

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    I didn't even know what a "Luchuirp" was (some kind of dwarf, my rangers tell me, but a dwarf's a dwarf to we elves), never having seen a living one. I'd heard that Keelyn had some captive in her menageries but the scouts I sent out never returned so I can't confirm the rumor. I've seen Khazads aplenty so I doubt I'm missing much.

    I'm looking at the PDF Manual for FFH2 (I know its likely not up-to-date but still); the Luchuirps' arsenal looks good. So why are they so lame when the AI plays them? They've got Barnaxus, the Blasting House, golems, a worker golem that can defend itself, repair abilities, Dwarven shadow, Mithril Golem,etc. But they're constantly getting leveled in my games. Not by me of course.

    As I've said, I've never seen a living one. I do have a few enchanted blades said to be of Luchuirp manufacture that I bought from some Doviello traders though - they're pretty well-made, I'll give 'em that. A broken golem stands motionless in the courtyard of the Inn I'm staying at. I'm told it was made by Luchuirp artisans 100 years ago if one believes the Dragon's Head innkeeper: tended the gardens, scared off crows and foxes, that sort of thing 'til it broke-down twoscore turns back.

    Don't nerf the Blasting House. Luchuirps need all the help they can get.
     
  9. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

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    Barnaxus doesn't help them much, since the AI sucks at managing their heroes and the fact they their golems are not effected by the free AI XP handicap makes them more and more weaker then the other AI's with every difficulty level increase, allowing the other AI's to clob them.
     
  10. Deon

    Deon Lt. of Mordor

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    Why don't you ask about firebows which are just a side unit for mage-heavy Amurites?
     
  11. MrPopov

    MrPopov King

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    don't forget the firebows are given channeling II which, with govannon, can give them earth II (stoneskin) water II (waterwalking) etc. It takes gaining XP from combat and buy those promotions, but it can be very worth it
     
  12. dyx

    dyx Chieftain

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    I think it's about production. In my current game I find them to hardly build any units at all. I saved them from the Balseraphs and gave back all their land, even defending their cities against barbarians or so... and there are quite some where they don't have any units, even after more than 100 turns of liberation.
    They should perform quite well, because the Golems don't depend on copper or iron... so Wood Golems are actually quite nice that early. But I always see them only building a few of them, or just a single one per city, so it gets overwhelmed by weaker units, say axemen without iron.
     
  13. zup

    zup Emperor

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    But they need iron to build iron golems. Anyone else can just spam champions and search for iron simultaneously. And once you find the elusive metal, all of your champions (in cities) will have brand new weapons.
     
  14. smusebaer

    smusebaer Warlord

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    How about Mages with fireballs with move 3 or 4. FFH isn´t balanced, but there is no flawless tactic. For very strong units Fireballs are just EXP feeding.
     
  15. xalien

    xalien Prince

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    I thought fireballs don't give xp?
     
  16. zup

    zup Emperor

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    Well if they are thrown at a unit with a great commander attached, or valor, they will at least get the bonus xp. At least it lets you ignore the 100 xp max from barbarians. Or did, back when I last played vanilla FFH.
     
  17. krasny

    krasny Prince

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    Because I'm fairly new to the game.

    I think all such upgrades to units should be limited.

    My stack of 20 fireballed golems is just abusive. They get to chuck 20 fireballs at a city, which means the only possible defence is counter attack.

    I think all such upgrades should be limited to a few units.
     
  18. odalrick

    odalrick Emperor

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    Actually, in Fall from Heaven
    It's the general state. To some extent it's inherited from the base game, but it is exacerbated in FFH.

    Twenty fireballing golems aren't doing much more than four fireballing mages and four maelstroming ones.(Apart from acting as twenty champions as well.)
     
  19. JonathanStrange

    JonathanStrange PrinceWithA1000Enemies

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    "The only defense is to attack!" - I like the sentiment, that should be our FFH2 motto! The day AI Luchuirps are terrorizing any but dumb animals and the lower classes of barbarians is the day I'll wonder about if the Blasting House is too powerful.

    You know another thread argued something to the effect that ritualists were the bomb: the game was a race to get ritualists first, build lots of 'em, and the OP thought they were overpowered too (iirc) as city defenders would be doomed against ritualist attacks. Attack!, someone told him, don't defend against ritualists.

    The AI civs apparently do well against AI Luchuirps as the little buggers rarely live long and prosper.
    MP players, as far as I know, haven't complained about all-powerful Luchuirps.
    So that leaves SP gamers who, if they think 20 fireball casting golems is abusive, could simply choose not to do that. And those SP gamers who like fireballs can continue being pyromaniacs.

    I'm almost tempted to play the Luchuirps now. I've always thought they were the punching bag civ of FFH2.
     
  20. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    They NEED a spell to speed them up, it just sucks :sad:
    they should also get upgrades(buy),
    and they need a bronze golem,
    the forge should allow them to choose the light or heavy promotions
    And they need to get a major buff for the AI
     

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