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Blasting House

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by krasny, Apr 26, 2009.

  1. popejubal

    popejubal Emperor

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    They do seem extremely overpowered compared to units in Civ IV BtS, but you should also keep in mind what you're comparing them to in Fall From Heaven.

    It takes a long time to get Blasting Houses and even then, you don't get the promotion on all of your golems. You only get the promotion on your golems that are built in that city. All the other golems and all the golems that had been previously built don't get the bonus.

    Also, "real" mages with Combat promotions pass the "combat lite" promotions on to their summoned units. Golems get "combat lite" from Barnaxus, so the Fireballs always start without promotions. That's not an enormous difference, but it is there.

    Finally, every civilization in the game has a point at which they are overpowered. Clan of Embers has it at the start of the game, as do the Doviello. Amurites have it either at Sorcery or Arcane Lore (depending on how you play them). Baselraphs are overpowered at several different points in the game (with significant differences based on your neighbors' traits and based on the map). This is just the Luchiurps' time to shine.

    ...and honestly, I'm not even all that impressed with that point. If I have 20 fireball throwing golems, I'm still going to have a big problem facing a lot of other civs who are at a similar tech level just because they have something that's even a little scarier.

    Yikes, I just thought of something. Mimics vs. fireball wielding golems. Now that's just silly. :mischief:
     
  2. deadliver

    deadliver Loud Mouth Amateur

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    Sounds like a great idea for me, buying upgrades for your golems. "Sir would you like the City Smasher 2000, or the Archer Bane 2500? Perhaps I can interest you in a small upgrade for the optional Orcmasher?"
     
  3. Rutee

    Rutee Warlord

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    You know, this thought I like. But with one difference; You don't use gold to get the upgrade promotions. You use hammers. No, I have no idea that would work out codewise, so if it weren't possible, no loss from me. But given that the Golems' are the Luchuirp pride and joy, some way to convert hammers to MOAR (Optional) FIREPOWER seems like, incredibly fitting. Moreso then the current setup. I dunno, just seems to me like they need help..
     
  4. GoodGame

    GoodGame Red, White, & Blue, baby!

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    Amurites can do the same thing with their Firebow, practically for free (just need a few auto-xp from civics or instructors).

    Amurites can do the same thing with their Cave of Ancestors + Adepts and a fire mana (Their palace gives free Fire mana, I believe also).

    Get any race with two fire mana sources and their adepts are in striking range of being Mages with fireball for some xp and gold. Nearly infinite fireballs, at a cost (Balseraphs should be able to get that XP reliably with their arena, I think).


    So infinite fireball units isn't really limited to the Luichurp. I think it's balanced anyways---consider that those golems don't heal normally.
     
  5. Revolutionist

    Revolutionist Chieftain

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    The fireballs are practically the only thing keeping the Luichirp afloat as a military threat in the later game. The further you go, the more the lack of promotions hurts, since everyone else is starting to sport really veteran units.

    The lack of mobility, as people have mentioned, is a factor too. The fireballs help to keep people from just going around you or plinking you to death with mages of their own.

    Also, it has been pointed out by others that the fireballs are pretty weak ones versions. No empowered promotions. No spell extension. They're not exactly going to turn the tide against the 200xp Vampires charging in your direction.

    Besides, I think we're missing the most important consideration. Fireball spewing golems are both cool and fun. That alone should mean that it should be kept in, unless it's totally breaking the game, which it definately is not.
     
  6. Domingo

    Domingo El Desaparecido

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    I think it would be interesting if the Dwarven mages got some additional spells with other mana types that could upgrade the golems (akin to repair). So, for example, if you had Air 1 you could cast a spell that gave them a permanent 10% withdraw, and so on. That would also give them a bit more synergy with their magic line.
     
  7. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    or Air 1 could give spell extension 1? Earth 1 could give combat 1(would buff golem and fireball) and also you could have Water 1 giving +1 movement with 5% chance to wear off?(basically fair wind for a golem, basically greasing the joint the 5% representing it sometimes leaks lubricant)
     
  8. Tlalynet

    Tlalynet Emperor

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    The Luchiurp could probably use a few more bells and whistles, but a complex upgrade system would me more micromanaging and less overall fun. Something that gave them a withdraw chance would be a perk though, a 10% one like Domingos air suggestion. Something that would not be game changing and small enough that your not sure if you want to bother with that build or not, or something you really only build in your main mfg city so when one does withdraw on that rare chance its really cool.

    A movement bonus that wears off would be cool, but it would become a pain to keep stacks together. That would be fun and unfun in different ways. How about instead of putting in a spell it is tied to a mechanists shop build that grants a +1movement +some small combat practical thing like a str% or first strike and increases the heal rate of Golems in that city by 20%. When golems come in they get tuned up and when they go out there is a 5% chance that wears off per turn.

    It would be a big enough bonus that its desirable but not something you can put on the frontlines without a disciple and rush buy gold. It would also help get those new golemns to the front lines a little faster, and that is a big perk by itself.

    But per the topic, fireballs for Luchiurp are definitely not overpowered.
     
  9. deadliver

    deadliver Loud Mouth Amateur

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    Starting to like the idea that specific mana types allow the blasting house to provide free promotions to the golems. This would encourage the luichurp to go after mana nodes and not only for the earth mana.
     
  10. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    they should make the blasting workshop a) more expensive and b) use all of the Manas (integrating the other buildings) a and b should be implemented together (or you could have a base building that does nothing and you build attachments to it)
     

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