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Blizzard and Facebook offer an opt-out; will 2K?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by evrett37, May 27, 2010.

?

Should there be an Opt out option ?

  1. Yes

    75.0%
  2. No

    25.0%
  1. Wieke

    Wieke Chieftain

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    No that isn't bad thats awesome! Plus they ask for your permission first! What are all these people worried about?

    (Furthermore, if you don't trust them now, why would you after they establish some kind of opt-out service?)
     
  2. Commander Bello

    Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations

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    Not true.

    They may not store these information with your name, cc no. or whatever, but they are scanning your system and they are uploading such information - at least in case of a software crash.
    To the best of my knowledge, in such a case you are not asked for permission.
     
  3. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Got a source for that? Note that in your response, simply telling me what you can see on your account is not sufficient evidence. I'm not trying to advocate any theory of paranoid conspiracy here but as far as I can tell you have just as little evidence about this statement as the "paranoids" do about their statements.

    At a bare minimum, Valve appears to know how much time I've spent playing Steam games. That is already more information than what you mentioned.
     
  4. evrett37

    evrett37 Prince

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  5. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

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    https://store.steampowered.com/join/?

    The specific information that you provide to steam is there. Offline mode will prevent you from sending gameplay statistics back to the steam servers if you prevent the steam system from connecting. Why you should care about this is beyond me.

    Sorry, but I do think not wanting anyone to know how long you've played game XYZ for is paranoid. What on earth is someone going to do with that information?

    Steam already don't share private information. It says so in their privacy policy. YOU DO NOT NEED TO OPT OUT OF SOMETHING THAT ISN'T HAPPENING.
     
  6. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    lol so your only solution here is to tell me to exclusively use offline mode and prevent steam from connecting?:lol: I don't really care about the recording of my gameplay time but it is at least one example of information that must be tied to my account that is not something I provided when I signed up.
    Irrelevant. As I said, it's information they collect that is over and above what you provide when you sign up, disproving your claim they don't collect any other information for your account.

    i.e.
    is plainly wrong.

    And yes, I know I'm totally doing a
    :p
     
  7. The_Coyote

    The_Coyote Emperor

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    Individual information can identify you, the key is how "distinguishable from information relating to other users" can be understood / is defined and be used. Yes of course they also say "not in a form that personally identifies any user or enables the recipient to communicate directly" (so your clear name, accurate adress* or email adress should be save). But still now i don´t believe the term "personally identifies" is neither explained in the privacy police nor concluding defined by courts. (one point i´m aware: IP adress, one court decision i know says it´s always a personal information, another court says, it´s not always a personal inforamtion - but also i have no idea how the situation in the US is)

    *) even this must not be: if you live in an apartment building your adress (without room number) is no longer usable to personally identify you, in general only the not usage of the house number from the adress would be enough to avoid the definition of the adress as personal information.

    The question is, are you sure that nonwhere in the net you posted information with personal inforamtion that possibly can be connected throu the individual informations collected by Valve? But of course, as stand alone data individual information are only semi anxious - but still much more anxious than aggregated data.

    Also even the usage of individual informations is imo a bit unclear:
    "Valve may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties."
    and
    "This information [indiviudal informations] may be used to improve Valve's products and online sites, for internal marketing studies, or simply to collect demographic information about Valve's users"

    They may share them with others and they may use them the way described above, but what they will not do with the data?

    And finally the key in data usage and still be trusted by the users is not to sell no data, it´s only important the the user don´t know which data is sold or that data is sold [but looking at facebook, even that seems not always to be that important to users]. But as long nobody knows, most will not care.
     
  8. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

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    The private information that they gather about you is precisely what you enter when you first sign up.

    The statistical and aggregate information that their system gathers about accounts playing their games is different.

    They obviously collect information like "how many people are logged on right now" and "how many people have preordered Civ 5".

    Information is broken up into distinct chunks. Private information, such as your name, address, hair colour, shoe size. Statistical information that does not identify you such as "owns 32 games". Aggregate information such as "there are currently 500 people playing half life".

    The first of these things, facebook and blizzard are allowing you to opt out of. That is the subject of this thread.

    Steam does not collect this information beyond the absolute minimum require to operate their services and does not sell the information to third parties under any circumstances.

    The OP is completely wrong.

    FYI - even if they didn't display the information about play time somewhere you could see, their servers would already store the information required to produce such analysis. Utilising pre-existing logs to provide new functionality that can be bypassed by offline mode really isn't a big deal.
     
  9. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    I believe this is the relevant part of the agreement:
     
  10. Sterf

    Sterf Warlord

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    That's what Chalks said? You can view how many people are online, your friends can see which games you have and how much you played them, etc... Can't see why you would object to that to be honest. If you don't want people to see which games you have for some reason, turn it off in your profile settings.
     
  11. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

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    Yep, exactly. Obviously not letting the client connect to the net will bypass their ability to gather usage statistics, but as others have said, why you would care is anyone's guess.
     
  12. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Because it has nothing to do with Valve's ability to provide the service to me? I have no problem with them collecting information from me that they actually need such as a name, email address etc.

    But what if I don't want other people to know I've spent 1000 hours playing Virtual Families? :lol:

    In general I am opposed to data collection that is unnecessary. The purpose of such information is almost certainly primarily for marketing purposes so the question is not really "Why do I object to it" but rather "Why should I give it?". People like yourself only provide the information because you have to. If Steam asked you to provide your sexual orientation, would you do it? It's not personally identifiable and it could potentially help them in their marketing information.
     
  13. mjs0

    mjs0 The 4th X

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    I should have been clearer, what I should have said is...I am comfortable with the definition that valve uses for individual information if it doesn't overtly include information that easily points at me then I'm not bothered.

    I work on the premise that there is no such thing as privacy on the internet...every single site you visit keeps something about you. So I control and worry about the things that I can affect and live with or avoid those I cannot.

    With the information Valve has the only piece I am concerned about is the mapping between My Name, my account name, my email address, and my CC info. (For the last piece of information I have an approach that gives me peace of mind regardless which I documented in this post.) Frankly as long as they don't share or sell that information to 'people' I don't want having it (and I am as close to certain as I can be that they do not) then I honestly don't care what they do with the other individual and aggregate information. I am delighted if they can make money off of it because it will keep down the price of their games and services.

    Basically this is all about doing a risk assessment based on the information available, and based on what I see in Valve's policy it passes my risk assessment easily.
    Am I 100% safe? Of course not. Am I safe enough? In my opinion, yes.

    Everyone's personal risk assessment on things like this will be different so my acceptance is in no way indicating that anyone else should do so. It's not like anyone pays any attention to my ramblings anyway. :)
     
  14. Sterf

    Sterf Warlord

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    People like these kind of statistics, I like knowing how much I played a game myself for instance. I don't see how that connects to displaying your sexual orientation at all. As much as some people would like to compare it with facebook, it's not.

    And as said, you can make this info private in your profile settings.
     
  15. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

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    In online mode, steam already gets sent information about your initiation and closing of games for validation purposes, as well as for the community features.

    It's not a question of whether or not you should give this information to steam, that is part of it's functionality.

    Whether or not you want it displayed on your Steam profile is another question - but I would like to know why anyone you know knows what your steam profile is if you wish to keep this information secret.
     
  16. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    @the OP
    I don't get it. What exactly is it that you think you should be opting out from?

    Amazing how you write apocalyptic posts without any clear explanation of what you're so afraid of.
     
  17. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Ok I will have to figure out how to do that. (EDIT... I think I found it. Is it simply making your profile in its entirety not visible to other people?)

    The analogy to asking your sexual orientation is relevant because it too has nothing to do with Steam's ability to provide the service to you. It would however probably assist in their data collection for marketing, just as knowing how long you spend playing each game would.

    And yes, Chalks, I realise they can work it out based on the time you launch and close games etc. anyway. The point is that they actually store that info. Anyway, it really doesn't bother me that much. I am just highlighting that some of the data Steam collects is not specifically to give you better service. Some of it is to help them make marketing decisions. That's not necessarily a bad thing to most people. I just think it's wrong to pretend it doesn't happen.
     
  18. Sterf

    Sterf Warlord

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    No, in your community profile under settings.
     
  19. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

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  20. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Yeah I found it. As I said, it's simply an option to make your whole profile private. It's better than nothing, I admit.
     

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