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Blizzard and Facebook offer an opt-out; will 2K?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by evrett37, May 27, 2010.

?

Should there be an Opt out option ?

  1. Yes

    75.0%
  2. No

    25.0%
  1. mjs0

    mjs0 The 4th X

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    Whilst I 100% agree with your final sentence I would contend it is also wrong to overlook the other side of the coin, because with a business like Valve is running everything is connected, you cannot look at one piece and judge it in that disconnected state and completely out of context.

    For example, you may feel that some of the 'extra' data Steam collects does not directly impact your service but...

    If they use that data to make money by selling valuable demographics-based usage statistics to game developers and publishers then that is money that can be used to invest in new features, keep older games available, offset the cost of the service and keep it free, etc etc.

    All of which at least have the potential to give you a better service.
     
  2. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    I agree that sounds like a solid argument, but it is essentially "the ends justifies the means".

    They could equally likely use that money to further strengthen their monopoly on the market and potentially charge proportionately more for similar products in the future. I can appreciate there are reasons a company would want to collect such data for marketing and frankly I'd expect them to. Really I think it's generous to Valve to be wording it in a way that makes it sound they are doing it for us.
     
  3. mjs0

    mjs0 The 4th X

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    I would never imply they are doing anything for us out of some philanthropic motive, but that doesn't mean benefit won't flow in our direction.

    Just as it is wrong to pretend Steam won't use all this useful data for purposes that are beneficial to them it would also be wrong to pretend that the net outcome of every possible use of that data is harmful.

    All I am doing here is attempting to bring balance with a few centrist posts amongst the flood of posts from the extremes.
    A thankless task but such is life.:hammer2:
     
  4. Tylerryan79

    Tylerryan79 Emperor

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    I personally find nothing wrong with joining their service(steam) and giving them my personal info, because it states they will keep it to themselves unless i say otherwise. Good.

    They may take surveys/polls ect., and I have an option to take part of or not. Good.

    They take "Aggregate information" and "Inividual information" and will share it with other parties. While no company will in the end know who I am, I have no real choice in the matter. The aggregate information is statistics on my usage habits, games, sex, age that they have(not sure what you need to fill out to join) but presented in a way so no one can contact me. Individual information is me specific minus any contact info, or possably they have my info, but are not allowed to contact me directly without my permission. I personally dont see the big deal in being able to tell valve, no you can not use any of my info and put it into either types of information, aggregate or individual. Thats where Id like the option to opt out.

    Then there is "personally identifiable information". They will not give this out unless you agree to it. This is when you join steam, and check if you want to receive emails ect from other companies valve thinks youd be intrested in. This is another "Good".

    Sorry for double post, but on a phone its hard to edit/change, and easier to repost. Basicly anything you must give them to join or use game services ect(not sure what info, has it been stated or can a user state it?) will be made into the 3 types of info defined in the policy. With the exception of aggregate, it is also statistics the program sends back also.

    In the end its no big deal really, but having a choice to opt out of aggregate and individual info sale isnt a big deal either, as far as Im concerned. Y
     
  5. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    The analogy I would make is this; I don't like online advertising, per se.
    But advertising is great when it is part of a business model that means I get free content.

    I am not sufficiently annoyed by the advertising that I would prefer to pay more instead to get said content.

    Its like saying that CivFanatics should have an opt-out for the ads at the bottom of the page (yes, scroll down, there are ads there). But ads are part of their (non-profit) business model. Without any ads, we'd have to pay to support this site.
     
  6. Rebel44

    Rebel44 Warlord

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    That 70 million per year profit is 3-4 year old data - at that time Steams revenue was fraction of what it is now (based on info from Vlave about Steams sales increasing by over 100% year-to-year for past years I expect their current sales to be 10 times as much ).
     
  7. evrett37

    evrett37 Prince

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    Did you get a pinky promise ? Cause it doesnt count unless its a pinky promise..
     
  8. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

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    Tell me, if you think they're going to break their legal obligation to keep your details confidential anyway, what is the point of an "opt out" for it?

    Nothing.

    What is the point of this thread?

    Nothing.

    Just yet more evrett making claims that everyone involved is wanting to sell details illegally. No evidence, no reason - just baseless and mindless claims.
     
  9. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    They promise, sure :lol:. Will laugh the whole next week about that.

    The same for 50% of the threads around here :/.
     
  10. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    :hatsoff: You are right. It's funny, this "centrist" sort of idea is what I'm trying for as well. I'm attempting to balance all this steam love and steam hate with both legitimate reasons for not wanting to have to use steam as well as my own experiences with steam so far. I get the general impression that not loving steam for pretty much any reasons gets you labelled around here as being paranoid or against something like chocolate. My simplistic take on it is that Steam appeals to our short term desires and satisfies them rather well. Many rally behind it because they feel it is what will save PC gaming because they actually believe it is at risk of dying due to consoles (IMO that is a paranoid fantasy as well). In reality there are all sorts of reasons for loving or hating Steam and the main problem around here is that hardly anyone actually listens/reads arguments properly. For example, the number of strawmen that have been presented in the civ5 forum in the steam arguments is more than I have ever seen in the history of civfanatics.

    But yeah, centrism :goodjob:
     
  11. evrett37

    evrett37 Prince

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    Talk can only get you so far. As Civ teachs, if you want to progress eventually you need to forgo dipolmacy and wipe the other side off the map.
     
  12. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    If this is your philosophy to life, it explains a lot....
     
  13. evrett37

    evrett37 Prince

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    Its called nature dude..and its a system thats been around far far longer than human beings and their group hugs. Letting 2 philosophies fester endlessly is counter to progress. You didnt notice a player in civ gets closer to victory by wiping out all of the Native Americans or the razing of every city with Jewish worshipers?

    All out Mongolian horseman style war to wipe the pro-steam lobby off the forums is something I think would be accepted in a community that adheres to the values of Civ.
     
  14. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    Biology student here, don't go claiming something in your crappy ideology is natural as even if it weren't false, it wouldn't be a justification.
     
  15. Mercade

    Mercade the Counsellor

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    Just another thinly veiled bah-steam thread by someone who made other bah-steam polls and anti-2K threads.

    Can a mod close this please? :trouble: It's getting tedious.
     
  16. evrett37

    evrett37 Prince

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    Just another thinly veiled personal attack by pro steam lobby on their mission to shout everyone down. If you dont like whats said Mecedes go somewhere else or put my threads on ignore.
     

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