BLM and Protesting

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How bout this narrative..
CNN, MSNBC, WaPo, NYT all silent about Bernell Trammell’s execution
...Some black lives matter less?

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Do you know who a true “peaceful protester” was? Bernell Trammell was an activist for President Trump and his faith, and he did so peacefully. But he doesn’t match the profile for Black Lives Matter to care. Say his name.


Perhaps just some more random black on black crime, perhaps not. We'll see

Its not okay that he was murdered adn if it was a politically motivated murder that should be a bigger deal, its also not okay to say "what about black on black crime?" in response to protests about police brutality and Justice system abuses.
 
I just genuinely don't understand what you're trying to say. I was explaining intersectionalism to you and you gave me some weird digression about astroturfing. For example I never called any marginalized voices inauthentic, that was all you projecting. So maybe the move here for me is to just let you keep tilting at windmills.
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To me this seems to describe almost every outrage he has so. . .
 
Why don't you try talking to one? Not online.

You want me to track down racist morons and talk to them face to face? They're probably not even wearing masks. Sounds like a waste of my time and a potential hazard to my health
 
I just genuinely don't understand what you're trying to say. I was explaining intersectionalism to you and you gave me some weird digression about astroturfing. For example I never called any marginalized voices inauthentic, that was all you projecting. So maybe the move here for me is to just let you keep tilting at windmills.
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I'm sorry, do you think the average black person oppressed by police is equally in favor of protesting for gay rights?

I don't. So taking the lead of a protest against police brutality and then making it about women and LGBT is subverting it, using it for an entirely different cause. The fact that the dominant culture in this country may marginalize both groups doesn't make them allies at all.

I don't understand how you justify this without saying that the subset of black/gay people who agree with your agenda somehow represent the true, authentic voice of the oppressed (which you see as coming from white America).

Just because you cannot comprehend does not mean that it is incomprehensible.

I comprehended just fine. What I didn't get is why my (clear) summary of it was too hard to him to unpack.
 
Black lives killed by white cops matter

As long as there is no "only" in front of it :mischief:

Although this Trammell person (Rip, of course) seems to have been a loon:


No way he was murdered due to being a force to be reckoned with/having political clout.
Just another insane guy trying to make ends meet, and possibly this was just a petty crime kill.
 
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...Some black lives matter less?

It's almost like you're being intentionally stupid
For about the hundredth time. There is nothing lacking in the institutional response to this man's death. The police are looking for a murderer. They will charge the murderer with murder. Very different from how things normally go when a cop murders someone. That difference is what the protests are all about. You know all of this already, of course.

The fact that the dominant culture in this country may marginalize both groups doesn't make them allies at all.

Very true. Just look at how white supremacy sets the poor whites against black people, when they would be natural allies otherwise.
 
I'm sorry, do you think the average black person oppressed by police is equally in favor of protesting for gay rights?

I don't. So taking the lead of a protest against police brutality and then making it about women and LGBT is subverting it, using it for an entirely different cause. The fact that the dominant culture in this country may marginalize both groups doesn't make them allies at all.

I don't understand how you justify this without saying that the subset of black/gay people who agree with your agenda somehow represent the true, authentic voice of the oppressed (which you see as coming from white America).

You are extrapolating a lot from what I said and that's what makes your remarks obtuse. You don't need to be churlish about being called out on that. Again with the tilting at windmills.

The fact of intersectionality is that these groups intersect. That is all I said. The reality of that is made clear when you have the founders of BLM being three-out-of-three women and two-out-of-three LGBT. The reality of intersectionality is that in a group like BLM you will have debate and struggle between the people as they share their perspectives. Black women relate their experiences to Black men; Black queers relate their experiences to Black straights; Black people relate their experiences to white people.

How can Black women who are also the victims of police violence be subverting the movement by relating their own experiences with that? You should know the matter of Breonna Taylor's death being far less publicized than that of George Floyd is an issue for BLM protesters, not because of your imaginary white commissars coming in and dictating correct policy, but because there are Black people for whom it is relevant and serious that Breonna Taylor be attended with the same respect as George Floyd. It may boggle your mind, but a political movement can attend to many controversies and, possibly even, debate them and grow.

It's no question to me or anyone if Black people will protest for gay rights. Of course they will. There are Black LGBT people and allies. Likewise, there are white trans people who would prefer not to be raped by the police in holding cells, and there are white people who for any reason at all agree the police shouldn't be allowed to murder people indiscriminately in the streets for nonviolent crimes. I don't see any queer people derailing the movement by choosing to show up in support and solidarity at a BLM protest. Once you show up to a BLM protest and march, you are marching for the cause. I think you can only call that subversion if you're a goon cop trying to trick people into not protesting.

If there's anything at all that definitely pushes groups together and makes unlikely allies, it's probably the anti-BLM protesters who can't help themselves pivoting from their racist dogwhistles to "kill transgenders" and "kill [slur for homosexuals]." I assure you nobody in BLM, even the most homophobic person, was fooled into clapping along at that. They all knew what the Blue Lives crowd was there for, and even on a bad day it's not BLM protesters that try on chanting "kill transgenders."
 
Very true. Just look at how white supremacy sets the poor whites against black people, when they would be natural allies otherwise.
Not just the poor whites they go after. They also go after regular straight white males who feel insecure in their place in the world and emasculated. More often they go after the ones who are quite isolated. Innuendo Studios goes into detail on this on “How to Radicalize a Normie”.
 
Black lives killed by white cops matter

I'm glad you can acknowledge that, just like I can acknowledge that the tragedy that is inner city crime should be addressed as well, but I oppose further policing and would suggest instead other methods are worth trying after 70 years of failures.
 
More escalation from police. This time in NY. If we can get this bullfeathers stopped asap that would be great. (In the video it is pretty clear these protesters were not attacking the officers with bottles and rocks as they claimed, because lets be honest the more videos like this go out the more people like me (who have some sort of a middle ground compromise fantasy) decide that ACAB is actually an apt acronym)

https://lawandcrime.com/george-floy...table-for-using-unmarked-van-to-abduct-woman/

“Last night, plainclothes NYPD officers yanked a young transgender woman, Nikki, off the street in broad daylight,” his statement read. “This incident, along with many others of unidentified officers arresting people and taking them away in unmarked vehicles, is part of a frightening pattern being perpetrated across this country. We know that people of color and transgender people are at greater risk of police brutality, with transgender people at particular risk of harassment and abuse while detained.”
 
You are extrapolating a lot from what I said and that's what makes your remarks obtuse. You don't need to be churlish about being called out on that. Again with the tilting at windmills.

The fact of intersectionality is that these groups intersect. That is all I said.

Almost every group you can imagine intersects at some point. Why is this intersection so valuable or meaningful? How is police brutality against black people related to white gays being sent to conversion camp?

The reality of that is made clear when you have the founders of BLM being three-out-of-three women and two-out-of-three LGBT.

The only reality that makes clear is that people with multiple 'oppressed' traits tend to be at the forefront of radical university movements and therefore got in ahead of the mass support (did Linda Sarsour and Tamika Mallory represent the entire Women's March when they stated that Zionism and feminism were incompatible?).

It's a bit like a Guardian journalist going to a village in Kashmir to get their perspective and wind up interviewing a guy who gets his knowledge from reading the Guardian. That's a real thing, btw, especially where I am.

How can Black women who are also the victims of police violence be subverting the movement by relating their own experiences with that?

They're not, and you're now in motte mode.

What would be subverting the movement would be talking about how the patriarchal family model nerds to be abolished in favor of Marxist collective childcare. You can believe that black people would be better off with it, but it's not clear why it should be fought for at the same protest as the police officer choking a guy to death.

You should know the matter of Breonna Taylor's death being far less publicized than that of George Floyd is an issue for BLM protesters, not because of your imaginary white commissars coming in and dictating correct policy, but because there are Black people for whom it is relevant and serious that Breonna Taylor be attended with the same respect as George Floyd.

Actually, what I heard were complaints that the naked protestor image was taking attention away from 'black women protest twerking'.

George Floyd is a celebrity martyr and he blew up organically, not because he was deliberately promoted by the media as opposed to a black woman being killed in similar manner. It's not clear what another death not having equal 'screentime' should prove (does the Tank Man take attention away from everyone else who died at Tiananmen Square?).

Also, police very disproportionately kill men. So this is an example of female privilege, is it not?

It may boggle your mind, but a political movement can attend to many controversies and, possibly even, debate them and grow.

A movement that constructs an entire worldview and punishes those not on board with every aspect of it is just a cult.

It's no question to me or anyone if Black people will protest for gay rights. Of course they will. There are Black LGBT people and allies. Likewise, there are white trans people who would prefer not to be raped by the police in holding cells, and there are white people who for any reason at all agree the police shouldn't be allowed to murder people indiscriminately in the streets for nonviolent crimes. I don't see any queer people derailing the movement by choosing to show up in support and solidarity at a BLM protest. Once you show up to a BLM protest and march, you are marching for the cause. I think you can only call that subversion if you're a goon cop trying to trick people into not protesting.

Uh, no, protesting as a particular demographic is not derailing the movement. Using that protest to advocate for your own demographic and to push policies black people overwhelmingly don't want, on the other hand...

If there's anything at all that definitely pushes groups together and makes unlikely allies, it's probably the anti-BLM protesters who can't help themselves pivoting from their racist dogwhistles to "kill transgenders" and "kill [slur for homosexuals]."

It's the other way around, although convincing you of that is probably a lost cause (every politically active person in America is exposed constantly to intersectionality propaganda).
 
I'm not going to play ping pong with you over a dozen little nitpicking points, dude. This snipping up a post into every line and taking each one into a conversational detour is just obnoxious. Compose your thoughts and articulate them in a single coherent narrative or don't waste my time.
 
I'm not going to play ping pong with you over a dozen little nitpicking points, dude. This snipping up a post into every line and taking each one into a conversational detour is just obnoxious. Compose your thoughts and articulate them in a single coherent narrative or don't waste my time.

You're building an anarchist movement in radical university departments and using members of certain demographics as your spokesmen. Your experience in organizing and connections allows you to funnel those spokesmen to act as leaders for mainstream mass protests when they occur, and to give them the illusion that 'intersectionality' is backed by the demographics in question.

You also swallowed the Judith Butler gobbledygook that's used to justify this and are stumped because it's not working on me.
 
It's almost like you're being intentionally stupid
For about the hundredth time. There is nothing lacking in the institutional response to this man's death. The police are looking for a murderer. They will charge the murderer with murder. Very different from how things normally go when a cop murders someone. That difference is what the protests are all about. You know all of this already, of course.
You don't need to be churlish, I was referring to the lack of media response. Trammell was a BLM supporter. Sure, perhaps he was just insensibly murdered, but he was a Trump supporter and the current narrative is suspicion that he may have been killed because of that. I just wonder if the suspicion would have been that his murder was related to his support for BLM (possibly), would the media coverage be different?
 
Black lives killed by white cops matter
The rate of white lives killed by black cops have been way lower. Many of those protesters were unemployed because of the Covid pandemic, then protesting become their new jobs.

Are they going to protest about the surge of the Covid death in the future and mark "Covid Patient Lives Matter".
 
It's almost like you're being intentionally stupid
For about the hundredth time. There is nothing lacking in the institutional response to this man's death. The police are looking for a murderer. They will charge the murderer with murder. Very different from how things normally go when a cop murders someone. That difference is what the protests are all about. You know all of this already, of course.

The cop who killed Floyd was charged
 
You're building an anarchist movement in radical university departments and using members of certain demographics as your spokesmen. Your experience in organizing and connections allows you to funnel those spokesmen to act as leaders for mainstream mass protests when they occur, and to give them the illusion that 'intersectionality' is backed by the demographics in question.

You also swallowed the Judith Butler gobbledygook that's used to justify this and are stumped because it's not working on me.

Okay, you did what I asked, but I just... what? Radical university departments? Me, an anarchist? Judith Butler???

I think you're jumping at shadows, dude. I can't help you with that.
 
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