Blocking AI moves - smart enough to get angry?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Randall Turner, May 11, 2011.

  1. Randall Turner

    Randall Turner King

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    I've got Japan on my continent, currently medieval, and he's got a hard-on for Washington for some reason.

    Now, normally I wouldn't care, but they're the only nearby civ that's friendly and they're important trading partners for me. (Research agreement pending plus a key resource.)

    I've already paid off Nobunaga once to stop a war with America, but then he came to me requesting I join him in another war - which of course I didn't, but it means that yes, Virginia, he's going to start yet ANOTHER war (and probably destroy him), indirectly screwing up my economy.

    I tried making a defensive pact with America (and saving), no joy, he went to war anyway. (My army is stronger, but he evidently didn't care.) Now, I don't want to go to war with Japan either, same deal - research agreement, trade partner.

    Edit: reloaded and tried another tack...

    So, I've decided to try blocking his access to the American cities (they only have two) with my "neutral" troops in the area. (Pissy little scouts and bowmen, but they'll do for taking up a tile.)

    The question is - is the AI clever enough to see that I'm messing with their attack by stationing my troops on their attack routes?

    If so, welp, sorry, Washington - I'd rather you didn't die, but I'd rather not go to war with Japan pre-riflemen even more.

    If not, that seems to be the way to keep Washington alive long enough to buy Nobunaga off AGAIN, ie, after the 10-turn "no peace possible" period has expired. (Also keeping a scout on America's "cotton" resource tile to keep it from being razed.)

    TL;DR - if I block an AI's attack with my "neutral" units, is it clever enough to figure out I'm screwing with it?
     
  2. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

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    No, go ahead and block him. Besides, even if he does get a little bit mad, if you have a stronger military, research agreements, etc with japan then he probably won't attack you.
     
  3. Randall Turner

    Randall Turner King

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    He gave me a, "Your have too many troops near my borders, please move them away" warning. :) Of course, all my guys are clustered around New York and Washington, I guess that's as close as the AI can get to, "move your ass so I can thump these guys!"

    I told him, "oh, no, just moving through" and ignored him.

    Damn, he's keeping me hopping. My goal now is to keep his few Samurai's from getting adjacent to the American cities, quite fun, but not at all easy.

    I'm afraid Washington's days are numbered, but we're coming up on enough turns I can try to buy him off again. We'll see!

    On another note, in the meantime Hiawatha denounced Nobunaga, at least. That's something. (Then he asked me to go to war with Japan w/him, took a look at the turns until the research agreements matured, had to decline.)
     
  4. Randall Turner

    Randall Turner King

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    Holy Crap, it WORKED!

    Nobunaga, with an army that must've been 2-3x more powerful than America's, finally just said "hell with it" and made peace!

    Key was limiting the number of approach avenues, funneling the Japanese heavy-hitters through one or two tiles where the USA bowmen and trebuchets could concentrate on them.

    Man, if I was Japan, I'd declare war on me in a heartbeat now, totally screwed him up. Nope, still have trade agreements, still reasonably okay w/me. :)
     
  5. noncognosco

    noncognosco Warlord

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    I don't know if they get mad at you for doing this, but I know for sure that the AI has done it to me. They deliberately place "neutral" troops in a way that makes it hard for me to attack. Sometimes they even block my ability to arrange my forces pre-war, as though they know it is coming.
     
  6. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    You could also have gifted units to America if you were confident that Japan was friendly with you for reasons other than being afraid of your army.
     
  7. Jatta Pake

    Jatta Pake Warlord

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    Japan has become super aggressive post patch. They smashed Catherine with ease last game.
     
  8. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

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    When the AI can see too many of your units outside of your borders (or directly on your border) he will often ask you if you're planning to attack or not. If you're planning to attack but say "naw bro, just passing through" you'll take a pretty severe diplo hit. If you're just blocking him or really just passing through, you get no diplo hit at all.
     
  9. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

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    I don't think the AI is programmed to wonder if you're messing with them.

    I had a game recently where my scout found a warrior/settler walking out of AI Berlin. I followed it, found the spot they were going to settle and planted my scout there. (really early game, so this was one of their 'free' settlers) The warrior/settler stayed 1 tile away just sitting there. The units never left that spot as long as I was on their target city location.

    the Germans never got mad at me or asked me to move.
     
  10. RedRover57

    RedRover57 Emperor

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    Unfortunately if you tell him you are just passing through (which may be the case at that time) you can't attack him at ANY point later in the game or you will get the diplo hit, even if it is 200 turns later. There should be a statute of limitations on this.
     
  11. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    !!!

    Pretty comical, although hopefully it gets patched because this would really really cut into the usefulness of AI bonuses. It won't take long for players to figure out AI settling tendencies and block 5+ cities eternally, maybe capturing those settlers for themselves eventually...and since you take less total cities you are way less of a warmongering menace!

    Ouch.
     
  12. Eat_My_Brains

    Eat_My_Brains Chieftain

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    I thought that was with city states only? I would LOVE to be able to donate units to a friend without having to directly join a war against another nation, kinda play the peacekeeping role, esp as I play Babylon and usually have a big tech lead! :king:

    How do I do this?
     
  13. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Move them inside their territory and hit the gift button. I don't know if you need to move it out of sight of their enemy or if they just don't make the connection. If you really want to help them, set them up in tactical formation with ranged units behind defenders.
     
  14. Eat_My_Brains

    Eat_My_Brains Chieftain

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    Thanks, ill bear this in mind for the next game!
     
  15. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

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    yeah, I would think they could just move over to another logical location close by or bring a few more units over and threaten my scout. Don't need another diplo action, just a few extra units to let you know that you shouldn't be there.
     
  16. Dunkah

    Dunkah Emperor

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    I would like to see a mechanic that allows you to as a player to tell the AI "Hey can you please vacate this particular hex over here for me". This would be very usefull in telling those CS's to move to allow you to construct a road once they fill their territory.

    This would alos be cool if the AI could tell you the same and give you a diplo hit if you don't of some kind.
     
  17. noncognosco

    noncognosco Warlord

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    Especially for neutral civs and CS, this makes a lot of sense. Most of the time they seem to be blocking your way out of stupidness rather than ill-will.
     
  18. Randall Turner

    Randall Turner King

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    Yep, can't remember the number of times a city-state unit squats on a freeway right-of-way, forcing those ugly clover-leaf bypasses. Emminent Domain, you pogues!

    Even worse, if you've got a connecting road passing next to a city-state border on a hill tile, they'll often adopt that road/hill hex as a "guard" spot and keep someone there pretty much indefinitely. No harm done for normal units, but your workers and generals CAN'T move through them, argh!

    Btw - re: war - All worked out fine.

    Can't afford to be giving away units to USA, I have a lot but I'm stretched (barb hunting), plus turned all city-states off this game so's I have to build them myself if I want them. At marathon, it takes a LONG time.

    Hiawatha turned around and backstabbed me during the USA/Japan war, right after he asked if I'd like to gang up on Japan. <shrug> He was #1 military, guess he just had to go to war with someone.

    Interestingly, at that point I was, "oh I'm screwed", attacked one of his Mohawk Warriors to get a surrounded Mandekalu out (or at least take someone with me), the Mohawk went "pop!" (Edit: and jumped the Mandy cav into the water**, he got peppered by an Iroquois galley but made it to safety.)

    I'm like, "wtf?"

    Hover over the next Mohawk Warrior, first displayed modifier? "-50%, Insufficient Strategic Resource". Dumbass declared war on me with a horde of (normally very powerful) Mohawks, and only 2-4 Iron. Saved my ass. Was the deciding factor in the war.

    Re: "Just Passing Through" w/Japan - I do not intend to declare war on anyone, RedRover. But, I do now have a defensive pact with the mighty two-city American empire. Might go to war that way, but shouldn't get a diplo hit. (If I do, you'll know 'cause I'll squawk!)


    ** - water exits: because Songhai units defend in the water, exiting stage left into a nearby damp spot is a pretty common occurrance. :)
     
  19. cccv

    cccv King

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    I once cornered an AI's spearman so that it would get shot to death by a barb galley. That was funny. But you know what's also cool in the "AI has no idea you're messing with them" category? You can pillage roads they build to connect their cities if the roads are outside of their boarders. They'll just send a worker to fix it, but they don't get mad about it AFAIK.
     
  20. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

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    yup, I've done that before. very funny especially if you did it by the capital. It's one of the ways AIs get so much cash early. Leave the scout there and they can't fix it until their culture pops the tile.
     

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