Blog Post: Diplomacy Gets a Major Upgrade in Civilization VI (available now)

[Eagle Pursuit]

I wonder if you could stack multiple causus belli to get the maximum reduction in warmonger penalties.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Im pretty sure each CB is limited, like you can not use reconquest as a reason to capture a capital from another civ without any penalty.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I wonder if you could stack multiple causus belli to get the maximum reduction in warmonger penalties.

There's only 1 Casus Belli for war, but there are multiple ways to increase/decrease warmonger penalties. We know about:

- Returning city after war decreases warmonger penalty, keeping it increases the penalty.
- Liberating city state or civilization greatly decreases warmonger penalty.
etc.

We could assume there are more, like taking back your city shouldn't have the same warmonger penalties as conquering foreign one.

 

[GauntZero]

Maybe the possibly-soon-to-be-revealed German civ has a special ability that is somehow linked to the CB system...might be a reason to introduce the mechanism first, before the civ is shown.

And it could make sense, if it was one tied to religion.

Like making it easier for Barbarossa to declare war out of religious reasons.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Maybe you can get CBs from fabricating claims.

Backstabbing/Betrayal could be a possible CB: AI breaks off a deal before the timer expires and you get a CB/Denounces you while having a DoF (or at least it should be a viable CB)

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

I wonder if you get war weariness if you decleare war without CB as it may be the only way to make a powerful civilization to actually care about the CB system.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Maybe you can get CBs from fabricating claims.

Backstabbing/Betrayal could be a possible CB: AI breaks off a deal before the timer expires and you get a CB/Denounces you while having a DoF (or at least it should be a viable CB)

You have some great ideas for "no diplomacy" mod

EDIT:

I wonder if you get war weariness if you decleare war without CB as it may be the only way to make a powerful civilization to actually care about the CB system.

It's fantastic question, no jokes. I found relying on other civs only to be really weak mechanics. We know there's war weariness in Amenities screen and if it's affected by CB, it would be great.

 

[skyclad]

They was also a mention of unstacking cities, shame they didn't tell us a bit more about this new exciting mechanic :<

Yes I dont understand why they keep mentioning it. Sure its a design change but the hardcore fans got it by now, and the casuals don't care.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Yes I dont understand why they keep mentioning it. Sure its a design change but the hardcore fans got it by now, and the casuals don't care.

Im not sure there is more to say about it. Maybe the only big thing left are the specialists but thats about it.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Im not sure there is more to say about it. Maybe the only big thing left are the specialists but thats about it.

Religious combat is very vague mentioned. Apostles are quite mysterious figures.

Archaeology weren't cover at all, except for England video and info about related Museum.

Espionage was mostly covered in France video. It looks like there are high-access spy missions, but no details about them.

Relation between amenities and the number of cities slightly mentioned in Aztec video is probably the biggest thing left.

 

[Atlas627]

I think the 6 types might be more flexible, and their conditions change through the ages.

For example, one could be "Liberation", which starts out as a Holy War but changes to war on different governments in the Napoleonic Era.

Another could be "Protection" which lets you rush to defend an attacked ally, a protected city-state, or if your spies discover some magnitude of sabotage against your civ.

One might be "Trade War", which starts out as letting you grab any 1 city you've made a trading post to, but also lets you declare war if you're attacked by Privateers (and the only wargoal is demanding reparations)

And so on.

 

[King Rad]

With regard to denouncing: There is a possibility that you have 6 reasons to denounce, and after that you can declare justified war. So it might be you need a reason to denounce as a first step, opposed to denouncing because you want to and then have a reason to declare.

I agree with this. If simply denouncing a civ provides you with CB to declare war, that really makes no sense. While denouncing could remove the surprise element (so less penalty than a surprise war), it certainly in and of itself should not provide a CB. There still needs to be an underlying cause. I think that denouncing as a first step prior to actual war where there is some other CB would be a great feature if it really had diplomatic effects. It could further decrease the warmonger penalty you would otherwise receive: I asked him not to do this action which is not in my best interest (and which constitutes CB for my declaring war on him); he continued; I denounced him; he continued; i declared war. A great mechanic if it works that way, and each step by you lessens the warmonger penalty from others.

 

[Ulthwithian]

King Rad: Well, if we know(?) that denouncing someone gives them a CB for declaring war on you, and if you are correct that denouncing someone else does not give you a CB for declaring war on them...

why would anyone ever denounce someone else?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I suspect you will have to choose a reason to denounce someone and that becomes your CB if you declare war on them.

Also Firaxis fixed their site if you want to view the blog as they intended.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

King Rad: Well, if we know(?) that denouncing someone gives them a CB for declaring war on you, and if you are correct that denouncing someone else does not give you a CB for declaring war on them...

why would anyone ever denounce someone else?

I don't think denouncing someone would give them a CB against you... instead it would just remove the surprise element.

Basically options would be

Surprise War
Formal War (requires that you got denounced or you denounced and waited X turns)
Justified War (requires one of 6 CB... it would probably be formal in the sense that you should state your CB and they can prevent the war/sue for peace by fulfilling your demands...ie returning the cities they took in previous war, city-states they captured/declared war on)

 

[King Rad]

I don't think denouncing someone would give them a CB against you... instead it would just remove the surprise element.

Basically options would be

Surprise War
Formal War (requires that you got denounced or you denounced and waited X turns)
Justified War (requires one of 6 CB... it would probably be formal in the sense that you should state your CB and they can prevent the war/sue for peace by fulfilling your demands...ie returning the cities they took in previous war, city-states they captured/declared war on)

This is exactly the way I hope it will work.

 

[King Jason]

I agree with Krikkitwo - a lot of the discussion around CB/justified war has led people to assert that denouncements/formal wars are the same thing as justified wars.

Personally, I don't believe this is the case. The worst kind of declaration you can do is Surprise; then formal, by announcing your aggression to your target and the world before engaging them; then justified, which gives you cause to do the former.

I actually feel this blog confirms my suspicion since we can declare formal wars via denouncements early in the game but the CB system is a mid-to-late game thing.

 

[ThomasClark]

Was it Ed or Anton that alluded in the livestream that if someone parks their military units on your border, it is grounds for CB? Hope I didn't imagine that. I was struck by how great that sounded, like you can warn someone, and if they agree to move their units and then don't do it within a few turns, you have a CB case.

 

[Atlas627]

Was it Ed or Anton that alluded in the livestream that if someone parks their military units on your border, it is grounds for CB? Hope I didn't imagine that. I was struck by how great that sounded, like you can warn someone, and if they agree to move their units and then don't do it within a few turns, you have a CB case.

Probably a "Broken Promise" or "War of Honor" CB. You can demand reparations only. Works for all of those promises (stop spying, stop proselytizing, remove your army, stop settling, stop buying tiles)

 

[uppi]

Im not sure if religious reasons are a good CB for gameplay mechanics because the risk it basically make the whole CB system irrelevant due to most civilization having their own religion.

The warmonger penalties could also be tied to religion with this CB: You get minor to none with civs that follow the same religion, but normal penalties with civs following a different religion and increased penalties with civs that follow the same religion as the defender. So you can use that CB if you have joined a religious block, but it would not help you at all if everyone has their one religion.