[BNW] Deity Liberty Domination - Jungle

[durron597]

How does one deal with large patches of jungle if you're going for a liberty 3 city domination game into crossbow rush?

I recently played a game where I killed Egypt with crossbows, then moved on to go kill Rome and there was a huge jungle in between me and him; I had made a declaration of friendship with Persia early on so I couldn't kill him and I felt like I had to kill Rome next because he was first in every category and had already slaughtered Greece. Except by the time I got into his core cities he already had Muskets and Castles in all of his cities.

The game before that, as China I started on the western edge of a Pangaea with a huge jungle to the south (Polynesia) and a mountain range and more jungle to the east (Maya), which cut me off from the rest of the map. I started with Honor in this one, not Liberty, and the slower xbows were obsolete before I could take much more than Honolulu.

Both of these were standard maps pangaeas, 4 billion years, normal climate, etc. Acken's sub T160 China win had none of these terrain problems until the very end when he was going for his last capital when he already controlled half the map.

Is it basically a requirement to have good terrain to get one of these really fast xbow domination victories? How do I deal with it?

 

[gobbledydook]

How does one deal with large patches of jungle if you're going for a liberty 3 city domination game into crossbow rush?

I recently played a game where I killed Egypt with crossbows, then moved on to go kill Rome and there was a huge jungle in between me and him; I had made a declaration of friendship with Persia early on so I couldn't kill him and I felt like I had to kill Rome next because he was first in every category and had already slaughtered Greece. Except by the time I got into his core cities he already had Muskets and Castles in all of his cities.

The game before that, as China I started on the western edge of a Pangaea with a huge jungle to the south (Polynesia) and a mountain range and more jungle to the east (Maya), which cut me off from the rest of the map. I started with Honor in this one, not Liberty, and the slower xbows were obsolete before I could take much more than Honolulu.

Both of these were standard maps pangaeas, 4 billion years, normal climate, etc. Acken's sub T160 China win had none of these terrain problems until the very end when he was going for his last capital when he already controlled half the map.

Is it basically a requirement to have good terrain to get one of these really fast xbow domination victories? How do I deal with it?

You have to go around rough terrain. You can't expect to push through 10 tiles of forest.

 

[stormtrooper412]

you restart

large patches of jungle are the worst kind

 

[Sclb]

I had made a declaration of friendship with Persia early on so I couldn't kill him and I felt like I had to kill Rome next because he was first in every category and had already slaughtered Greece.

Why do you even care about diplomacy in a domination game? The correct thing to do would be to trade for all his gold for your gpt and lux and DoW on the same turn. Also try to get him to DoW as many of his neighbor as possible.

 

[gobbledydook]

The backstab modifier sucks a lot, means you will never get full value trades for your luxuries and strategic resources again.

 

[durron597]

The backstab modifier sucks a lot, means you will never get full value trades for your luxuries and strategic resources again.

this. I would backstab for the 5th or 6th capital but not the 2nd.

 

[Sclb]

You expect civs to trade luxuries and strategic resources in a domination game? Usually by the time you kill the 2nd or 3rd capital, you won't get full value, and probably will get denounced by remaining civs.

 

[gobbledydook]

You expect civs to trade luxuries and strategic resources in a domination game? Usually by the time you kill the 2nd or 3rd capital, you won't get full value, and probably will get denounced by remaining civs.

Well, if you are smart at working the alliances...bribe your next target to go to war with everyone, then denounce and declare war. They're going to love you.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I never saw Jungle/Forest as a huge problem.

Usually around ten or even 20 turns before I plan to start a war I will substract at least 2 or 3 workers from improvements and make them chop all forests in my path, build forts and finally roads for efficient troop deployment. Hills with roads are actually great.

 

[Shark Diver]

Well, if you are smart at working the alliances...bribe your next target to go to war with everyone, then denounce and declare war. They're going to love you.

This pretty much describes what I'm going in the Community Persia game. I just finished taking Moscow, and have 3 capitals to go, but the 3 civs I conquered earlier are all being fair trade partners now and Brazil even recently offered DoF. Diplomacy (or knowing how to exploit the game's diplo modifiers) makes a huge difference.

 

[donkeyfish]

Hello, I am quite new to posting on this forum, but played the game a lot (so my opinions are not completely trash I think, but feel free to disagree )

If everyone has denounced you, its very difficult to achieve anything with diplomacy. E.g. paying someone to DoW, getting paid to DoW yourself, getting someone to join a war. I think this is more important than losing full price for trades, and the reason I prefer to avoid "backstab" and "didn't move your troops away" penalties early. Whenever I sign friendship with neighbour early in domination games, I tend to regret it (like Persia in the original post). I like to be friends with the guys far away. Smart diplomacy can slow down the AI, making crossbows (or whatever unit your fighting with) viable for a longer period. It can also divert AI units, making your progress faster. So arguably diplomacy is even more important the worse terrain, when speed is more of a constraint.

On the jungle topic I agree with carl.jung, workers can solve most problems. Especially with the Pyramids I tend to have 4 workers early (perhaps from t60-70) that can be reassigned to form an engineering battalion. I always go for "wagon trains" (I think its called) after finishing Liberty, so I can spam roads. Always trying to be ahead of my army, finishing roads prior to the troop movement. With Honor its more difficult (at least in my experience) to overcome terrain issues.

However, if you start in the jungle and there´s jungle everywhere, I´m inclined to agree with Stormtrooper. I don't think every map is suitable for a super-quick win (like you cite in the op), and jungle everywhere is a good candidate for "worst start" award in my opinion. But its more the issue of having to settle in jungle than moving through it later I think.

 

[durron597]

On the jungle topic I agree with carl.jung, workers can solve most problems. Especially with the Pyramids I tend to have 4 workers early (perhaps from t60-70) that can be reassigned to form an engineering battalion. I always go for "wagon trains" (I think its called) after finishing Liberty, so I can spam roads. Always trying to be ahead of my army, finishing roads prior to the troop movement. With Honor its more difficult (at least in my experience) to overcome terrain issues.

Sure, and this is what I ultimately did do in both games, maybe I didn't do it enough and improved too many tiles, but you can't use roads in your opponents territory. Did you buy open borders from them before DoW and chop their jungles for vision? Even that doesn't help if they have hills + jungle...

 

[donkeyfish]

I do that if I have the time, but I usually don't delay an attack for it. But it doesn't work all the time, and situation where opponents city has jungle hills 1st ring and flat jungle 2nd ring so you can't get vision is "wait for artillery" mode for me at least. Thats one of the worst possible scenarios (lots of mountains with single-tile passage in 1st ring is the worst I think).

It makes it a lot easier if you can attack someone else while preparing.

There is also the cheesy trick of settling a city 3 tiles away from your target and use GG

 

[durron597]

There is also the cheesy trick of settling a city 3 tiles away from your target and use GG

I actually did that in one of the games, but only against the Great Wall civ.