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BNW unit maintenance cost in early eras broken?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by funkymunky, Oct 10, 2013.

  1. funkymunky

    funkymunky Warlord

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    Need some advice for how to manage economics & military in early eras (particularly classical & medieval). The latest game playing Persia on Prince level, I have been finding that no matter what I do, I cannot manage to have a positive bank account at all and have a decent military (meaning around 6-10 units, & a couple of workers). Every time I check with my military advisor, he keeps telling me all the surrounding civs are stronger than I am, and even when I maxed my trade caravans (2), built roads to all my cities (6), markets in my main cities (top 3), & oligarchy for free garrisons, I still cannot get out of the red!

    Can some of you explain how you manage to keep a decent military comparable to rival civs? I think I need to shoot for about 8-10 units to keep rivals civs from constantly attacking me (which kills my caravans & makes matters worse), but I can't seem to be able to even afford that, and the lost gold is killing my science. :mad: Any useful advice would be appreciated (or even workarounds if the mechanics are broken). Also, is anything about early economy/ early unit maintenance being address by the new patch (didn't see any notes regarding that)?
     
  2. Draco84

    Draco84 Warlord

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    That is likely the problem. My rule of thumb is only build 1 tile of road for each population in the destination city.

    So I never build a road to a size 3 city, will build to a size 4 city if it's only 4 tiles away, etc. Roads usually eat up 1/3 of all my gold in the early game once all my cities are connected even at decent size.
     
  3. Dralix

    Dralix Killer of threads

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    Check your balance sheet to see income from city connection vs expense from roads. Always plan your routes to use the minimum number of roads to make the connections. Don't let your workers take the long way because they get blocked.
     
  4. Storminator

    Storminator Warlord

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    Conquer some cities, and use the loot to pay your soldiers. Time honored tradition . . .
    PS
     
  5. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Probably your population growth. Higher pop means more gold from trade routes. Try to boost your capital in the beginning. Use food caravans instead. At prince level you will not get much of gold from other AIs nor science.

    Food caravans are the fuel for everything for the first 100 turns since day 1.
     
  6. Jaybe

    Jaybe civus fanaticus Supporter

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    Were you referring to trade routes or city connections (or both)?
     
  7. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    About road connections. Natural gpt rate from population. But you also get more gold from external trade routes with higher population and a caravansry(or harbor).

    It's important to use food trades early then switch later for external trades until you reach happiness level or simply work on a mid term investment(massive upgrade, rush buys, etc). I will take a +3-4 :c5food: per turn vs 4-5 gpt anytime.
     
  8. Matthew.

    Matthew. Deity

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    Just sell an extra luxury for 7 gpt. That usually gets me by just fine. Tabarnak is correct, you will get more benefit from internal trade-routes in the early game. They allow you to work luxury tiles within your borders without sacrificing growth. The GPT is about the same as an early trade-route and you get the additional benefit of growth.
     
  9. Teagen

    Teagen Warlord

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    Early wars are borderline pointless. You can't have a functional military until at the very earliest the medieval era.
     
  10. DemonMaster

    DemonMaster A.K.A. Fenhorn

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    I don't have so many units if I plan to be at peace early on, a couple of archers can hold the line if I'm attacked until I have build reinforcements. If I plan to have an early war, I surely will have a negative gpt, but I live of my scout money, plunder and loot during the war.
     
  11. Snuffleupagus

    Snuffleupagus Warlord

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    I find that I can only really have an 'early' army if I've gotten high gold luxury resources to support it. I like this as it forces an adjustment of strategy depending on start and situation.

    - sell extra resources for money, don't forget to include strategic resources here
    - have a smaller army. the human is a much better military strategist, you will have a smaller army than the AI, but it will be ok.
    - if you have a small army you can build up enough money to buy a unit or two if you are attacked, which provides some security
    - you could always play a civ that reduces upkeep costs . . .
    - don't build so many roads until later
    - watch the non combat units! sometimes I disband workers or my old scout and am amazed to see how much that unit was costing me per turn
    - less cities? this is an odd one, but I usually have a market in all of my cities, if you can't get a market there the other buildings are no doubt costing you more than the city is bringing in
    - are you going for religion? I find that shrines and temples cost a LOT of money for their benefit if I'm cash strapped and not going strong religion
    - get church tithe as a founder belief for your religion.

    Mostly it seems that you're forced to have less units unless your civ has a UA for upkeep or you have a lot of great luxuries.
     
  12. Antarion

    Antarion Prince

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    why does noone hint at trade routes especially to city states if u want to wage war to your neighbour....:king:
     
  13. Antarion

    Antarion Prince

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    imho you cant compare this. ofc if you play with tradition you want your few cities to go big, but in any other case its not like this no brainer.

    external trade routes offer you quickly alot of science, or if u sent them to city states give you influence often enough by the tasks. food is meaningless if u go wide or spamm mass units early game (which i do often because i experiment with honor starts).
     
  14. Olleus

    Olleus Deity

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    on higher difficulties the extra science from external trade routes is incredibly important, sometimes making up as much as 1/3 or 1/2 of my total science (on immortal, when not doing tradition).

    Also, cant believe this hasnt been said, bully some city states. Its basically free gold for having a large army. When not at war, dont be afraid to march your troops around to get all the gold you can.
     
  15. DemonMaster

    DemonMaster A.K.A. Fenhorn

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    Especially with the beta-patch since they have with that buffed the basic value up so sending a trader to a CS early on (or to a Civ of corse when you can reach them) also helps.
     
  16. sendos

    sendos Immortal

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    There's your problem: You're listening to him. He's a fearmonger. Strong finances beats an early standing army. If you don't want to be worried by large armies, a small group of CB's will do just fine. If next to the Huns or Assyrians, have some melee units nearby to block their unique siege units.
     
  17. Knut_Are_M

    Knut_Are_M Prince

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    There are a few reasons to do early wars.
    1. your nabour ignores defence and decides to build 2 early Wonders.
    2. you start With horses nearby and lots of gold yield tiles and open land. (chariot Archers are some of the best early rush units.)
    if you want to do an early rush i would recomend you choose tradition and not honor. you need the gold and tradition gives you the most gold. Also tradition works really well together with cargo ships and caravans with food.

    also consider bullying CS for gold/workers. if you are building that big an army early on you might as well demand tribute from city states or complete some barbarian quests.
     
  18. SirWinston

    SirWinston Chieftain

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    No 1 income in the early game: Trade Routes, Markets, Monarchy, Colossus, Mausoleum of Halicarnassus ... and Cerro de Potosi :)
     
  19. crabe

    crabe Chieftain

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    I agree that your biggest problem is likely roads. In the early game, roads are usually not worth the cost until your cities have some decent pop. Those turns when the road is half built but not yet complete are a real killer. When I finally do build roads I usually have at least two workers building each road. The faster they get done, the less GPT is wasted.

    If you mouse over your gold (at the top of the screen) it will tell you where your gold is coming from (and going).
     
  20. Santa Maria

    Santa Maria Warlord

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    That is exactly the problem, cause you should be able to maintain an early army. Some free maintanance units in Honor would help. In the Ancient era you have no gold -> so you cant afford to have an army. That spoils the fun for me cause I like early wars.

    Before it was possible and better. Civs that have UU in Ancient/Classical are losing a lot of their power.
     

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