Boff-06 Everybody Loves a Well Dressed Man (Meh, Emp, Iceage)

Aren't the barbs on raging stronger? Plus by playing Emp, don't they come out a bit earlier as well?

I seriously doubt you can research both ponies and metal in time to fight barbs with only warriors. Even if you stave them off, they will trash your lands, so better to take the safe route!

Besides, you can likely count on warm fur to keep your people happy early on an iceball such as these settings dictate..tho from the opening screenie, what's with all the plains squares????
 
Ice Age maps aren;t about massed tundra (though there is quite a lot of that on wide conts), it's all about massed plains with a very thin jungle band and scattered grasslands. Overall, Ice Age is about lower food.

A very distinctive map script that cannot be duplicated by mere Dry or Rocky settings in the other maps. Play a few Ice Age games and you'll begin to appreciate rivers and grassland tiles far far more.

As for barbs/raging not sure about BTS but in vanilla, they didn't come early, they just came in volume! Add to the fact the Great Wall wasn't even in Vanilla, prohibiting that wonder for this SG was just common sense!


Cheers!
-Liq
 
Hi :hatsoff:,

Time to start the game...
The RNG smiled on us this time as you will see.

We settled in place, starting hunting/worker working the corn tile. I decide to let the culture pop the hut so we have better results...

turn 5, our exploring warrior discovered a nice set of resources: deer, gold and stone nearby! As well as another hut...

Spoiler :


He popped the hut for...

Spoiler :


2 turns later, the borders of istanbul popped...

Spoiler :


Exploration continued while researching AH, and we quickly ran into bad guy #1, a french one :p:

Spoiler :


OK let starts spamming units now (Nappy's favourite sport)! :lol:

Our warrior was more pleased when he met Hatty...

Spoiler :


Note that we then went Archery after AH as no horses resource was visible at times. We discovered one rather close soon after that but with the tech half researched, I finished it.

We also had a worker steal opportunity but vetoed it: first to no piss off Liq in the first turnset, second because the tiles toward Thebes are roaded so our units would have risked a counter attack (if hatty had 2 archers in its cap).

Spoiler :


The mentionned horses (note that we did worker -> warrior in the cap):

Spoiler :


I think this site, while very food light (there are some grasslands to be farmed at least) is very strategic for its resources... we could also try to chop SH here (to fight egyptian culture at first, and to use our free myst) :mischief:...

I stopped turn 35 when archery came in, selecting mining in the BW path.

overview of the land:

Spoiler :


I would settle the horse site (my vote is on the horses if we go for SH there, one east otherwise to still secure the phants) and then the rice/gold site (one west of the rice)...Others possibilities are to settle the stone or the other gold, but I don't think there are any AIs on this side of the map, so those could wait a little bit :)

Cheers,
Raskolnikov
 

Attachments

  • Boff-06 BC-3125.CivBeyondSwordSave
    52.3 KB · Views: 57
So Thebes is 2 tiles east of the southern plantation resource (silk?) in egyptian lands? There are a couple of seemingly reasonable city sites near Istanbul as well.
 
So Thebes is 2 tiles east of the southern plantation resource (silk?) in egyptian lands?

Exactly :). Yeah there are nice cities (for this mapscript) around istanbul and we want them all (by any means :mischief:)!

Cheers
 
Fishing and Mys!
Holy Mackerel! ;)

Nice huttage there mate!

Hmm so yeah Pony site going for SH sounds good. Placing the town directly on the ponys is especially nice considering they will never be pillaged (barring losing the town altogether). Feshwater and plenty of forests to chop there as well.

Scouting was spot on as well though what general direction was nappy met at?

Sweet surrounding land for sure considering what we got last time:lol: The capital itself is pretty effing bleak looking and since no horses in the BFC there is prolly copper or iron to work in one of the MANY pains tiles hehe. Let's just hope the RNG doesn;t consider a viable initial resource to be nukes or coal =p

Silver up next as no word from Grover yet.

No point dot mapping quite yet tho 1 west of that rice looks fantastic... Half price lighthouse to work those lake tiles and feed the hungry hills! If the fish were tile closer, it would be a broken good town hehe.

Cheers!
-Liq
 
Based on what you can see, securing ponies for offense (you have Bows for defense) is the smart move. Securing Ellies for the happy and later phants is a double bonus.

I assume an immediate attack on Egypt is also in the running since her capital would make an excellent addition sooner rather than later to your somewhat cramped empire (she is right next door) and if there are more ponies around, you don't want those war chariots charging in your direction. Plus, her capital is going to be the best city you can possibly add to your capital for at least a couple millennium.

If it were me, I would take the ponies, take Hatty's cap, and then settle your "fourth" down by the gold/rice/fish site. This would provide a solid start, two happy luxuries, and the economy won't take that bad of a hit.

Beeline courthouses, snag the religion, take your priest from Henge and your well on your way....

but you guys already knew all of this :) Or I have it all wrong :(
 
Scouting was spot on as well though what general direction was nappy met at?

He was spotted near Hatty borders, seeing as she is his worst ennemy, I guess he is close in the other side of Thebes...

I assume an immediate attack on Egypt is also in the running since her capital would make an excellent addition sooner rather than later to your somewhat cramped empire (she is right next door) and if there are more ponies around, you don't want those war chariots charging in your direction. Plus, her capital is going to be the best city you can possibly add to your capital for at least a couple millennium.

I agree she has to go fast but attacking with chariots seems a suicide: Thebes has already 40% culture defense and it's likely that it will be 60% when we have 6/8 chariots assembled (creative + holy city). Add to that archers and possibly axes/WC will be waiting for us... So I would attack either with HAs, axes (if copper nearby, but then we would have to veto SH in order to be fast enough I think), or phants. She has to go for sure, but I fear chariots are not the answer here... thoughts on this?

Cheers
 
Thebes is especially good, because unless emperor gives settlers to the AI (the score table suggests not, although your 2 free techs from huts may be misleading), it is also the buddhist holy city, and that shrine won't take long with Egypt's UB.
 
Chariots are eh..... hehe. Liq doesn;t have a shred of faith in a non UU chariot rush to be honest but then liq sucks at early rushes.

Since we have myst AND archery we could chop rush oracle in our glorious capital and take HBR for HA's maybe? I mean the AI never makes many spears unless it has to and unless she settles ON metal, HA's are perfect to pillage anything hooked up. Axes are just so much Hatty exp if she has war chariots going ...not to mention do we even have have copper in a blank bfc tile hahaha.

The main issue with this I see is we just don;t have the food to whip out the HA's so that would use up even more forests hehe.

One thing I love about egypt tho is that yes she can pop a fast GP but to do so takes valuable early work off the tiles.

How's all that sound for a suicidal start?


In Emp, The AI gets 1 settler 2 archers 2 scouts at start btw

A really good reference can be gotten at...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9042

Amazing amount of info in a highly polished PDF. Though the person that did the icons didn't know about Right Click -> Feather vs. Select -> Modify -> Smooth.

Though no idea how the icons managed to obtain that level of fade.

Notwithstanding, Liq fully blames Photoshop for hiding that sort of useful distinction in an ocean of obscurely named drop down menus!!! :old:

Cheers!
-Liq
 
The main issue with this I see is we just don;t have the food to whip out the HA's so that would use up even more forests hehe.

That's why I would not build the Oracle... without marble. I would rather tech HR while expanding to 4/5 cities (more production for the HAs), grabbing phants, stone and both gold in the process. We can also build the mids and delay the attack until construction (phants+cats stack). What do you think of that? I think the SH can help us more than the oracle and has better synergie with Mehmet (huge REXer)...
In the end, if we really, really want the oracle, I would take COL rather than HR, organized courts are awesome... (last part of the sentence is weird out of the context :lol:)

Cheers,
Ras
 
Liq loathes the early rush so no argument about Rexing instead of hammering.

SH out of pony town sounds good but how large we want to be before pushing a settler out? Seems to me we sort of need to rush it as hatty is prolly stuck between us and pyscho... er that nice French Man. Oh and love Egypt for all their wonderlust!

Poor hatty eh?

Organized courts is an oxy moron no?

Cheers!
-Liq
 
how large we want to be before pushing a settler out? Seems to me we sort of need to rush it as hatty is prolly stuck between us and pyscho... er that nice French Man.

dunno, the thing is with raging barb ON, we can't start the settler without having few archers out (at least 2). So I would grow, work mines until 2/3 archers are done then go settler. We can speed up the process by applying all our chops in Istanbul to the settler (ie while building the archers, make one turn switchs to a settler if a chop finished)

edit:
Organized courts is an oxy moron no?

I think it's more a pleonasm ;)
 
Finally wandered home from class, finished a book for aCK and got it :crazyeye:.

Not sure about the calls to attack Hatty. Egypt is generally a sane neighbour to have. Only problem usually is being out-cultured as Hatty is Creative (while Rammy will spam wonders).

Meanwhile, we have Nappy hanging around, who is the most violent of the three Frenchmen, and he already hates Hatty due to Warmonger Respect levels. Add to that and we don't even know where Nappy is.

This all seems like a powder keg waiting to happen that we shouldn't even have to lift a finger to ignite, so why should we when we can REX instead? Chariots are our only guaranteed attack unit, and honestly chariots are horrible unless you have a chariot UU (which our intended target does btw, lol).


Otherwise, turns seem fairly straightforward. More joyous scouting while teching Mining->BW to find out the RNG screwed us and there is no copper except for in some losuy tundra or desert area very far away from our capital.

Should be able to spam out a pair of archers at least as well before getting a settler started.
 
Now, I have to be Extremely Silly (TM), but I just came home from Istanbul, of all cities.

It has around 15 million inhabitants, so we should probably get this thing rolling :lol:

Good start, Ras - nice hut luck!

I like the idea of settling horse/ivory, but it's against a creative leader and with no proper food... All in all, IceAge maps are hard to dotmap - they're crappy.

...Oh and RR: [harsh parent voice]Do your Cavaleiro homework![/harsh parent voice]
 
3125BC (35):

Preflight check. Looks pretty autopilot with the warrior finishing and growth happening in 3 turns. Have massed food for an ice age start, but we're not too close to being able to leverage it yet, which means scouting turns for S.ilver!

3100BC (36):

Hinduism is FIADL. Turn 36 meaning probably no other religion loving civs on the map anywhere.

3075BC (37):

A wolf appears on the tundra hill I was going to step on this turn. Good thing animals don't get defensive bonuses eh?



Pasture done this turn, and warrior and growth happening next turn. Our current collection of techs means we have nothing to do for 7 turns while mining comes in, so going to work on a road leading east.

3050BC (38):

Alan LeMay gets Woodsy 1 after killing the wolf last turn.

Warrior done in Istanbul and dial up a 7 turn archer. Uh, make that 6 turns after MMing to slow growth (no whip for population control). Ok, well whatever. Sending the new warrior to scout on account of barbs not popping yet (I think).

Worker starts roading on account of not being able to do anything else (except farming plains tiles, :gag:.

3025BC (39):

Zzz... Oh wait we spot Nappy's scout standing on the stone tile to our west.

3000BC (40):

LeMay is healed, so heading off again... Well, that was a short trip north. Icelocked at the northen part of the continent obviously, so we'll swing back.

2975BC (41):

Road done on the pasture, so continuing it on the bare plains tile. I think we'll finish in time to get back to the plains hill and waste no time mining.

2950BC (42):

Spot more ponies to the south, and a scary bear!



2925BC (43):

The bear goes west, and we go east. Run!

2900BC (44):

Archer is done, growth in 1. Fortifing the archer and dialing another in 6 turns.

Mining is next turn and the worker finished the road last turn, so has the exact 1 turn to waste running back to the plains hill.

Nappy is to our south.



Yes I blundered into a lion, good thing we are on a high defense tile.

2875BC (45):



Bronze Working is 22 turns, ugh. Luckily no one else is in Slavery so we're not THAT slow :p.

The lion ignored us and walked on to the blank plains tile to the west. Odds are not great at around 68% (RNG hates us!) so not attacking, instead keep on scouting.

2850BC (46):

The lion attacks our south warrior and dies, yay! We are down to 1.4 strength though, so stopping to heal for 3 turns.

2825BC (47):

We hit our west coast!



Awesome! Well kind of for an ice age map :p.

2800BC (48):

The "enemy" is spotted near Istanbul. What?



2800BC? You've got to be kidding!

2775BC (49):

Barb kinda side steps us, not entering the culture. Ok whatever. A second archer is done next turn, so that's good. Probably going to get a third one before even thinking of a settler.

2750BC (50):

omgz! Barb stepped on our Pasture! We can't have that can we?



Newly built archer gets beat down to 0.6 health but wins 2XP, ok nice!

We dial up another archer as it's clear the bad guys are running around in full force, sigh...

Noting that Nappy's capital seems to be built on a hill, so bad ideas all around to go about attacking.

The mine is done this turn, so switching to it to get that archer out faster. Growth in 4, archer in 4. After that... well various ways exist to stall are growth I think.

2725BC (51):

Well with ZERO gold, I think Gibbon is wasting his time if this is his "greatest work".



Nappy adopts slavery so guess who got BW?

omgz, barb archer appears north of Istanbul. It's been a while since I've turned on raging barbs apparently.

Well, seeing as we are beset by a ton of barbs, going to promote our archer to Combat 1, as Drill is somewhat meh when the strength levels are similar. Healed in 2 turns, ugh.

2700BC (52):

Arg, wtf?



I thought they were supposed to bother the point leader! (which is Hatty)

Well, going to charge the full health archer onto our farm, as a 50% chance to live is better than trying to kill them across a river to defend our farm.

A forest grw on one of our riverside plains btw. Normally this would be great, but seeing as I was milking the 1 commerce from that tile, sigh...

2675BC (53):

Yay, our archer on the corn won! Promote Combat 1 as well for multipurpose barb clearing duty, sigh... He heads back into the city and the other archer steps out onto our mined hill because...



Barb warrior incoming from the east as well.

2650BC (54):

We punt the barb warrior that came from the east due to it stepping on our road.

The archer is done in Istanbul, and due to this craziness, dial another one. We don't really have the luxury of time to build a barracks. Growth in 14 turns, so we need to find a way to stall before then, sigh. Mines incoming hopefully.

2625BC (55):

Barb archer XPs our hill archer. We BARELY take any damage, so healing for 1 turn.

The archer that performed the warrior punt last turn buys Combat 1 and stops to heal for 1 turn.

2600BC (56):

Another barb warrior is incoming against our corn, so Horace Ford goes to protect our farm. Again!

2575BC (57):

And Ford wins the barb killing exercise against the warrior. Whew, was getting worried there for a second when the warrior was heavily beating on our last unit in the group.

Archer done next turn and then I need to get on a settler.

2550BC (58):

Alan LeMay absorbs an attack from a barb warrior while fogbusting.

Sooo... If there was any doubt at all that the RNG HATES US with a passion. First we got that negative diplo event with Hatty who is normally reasonable and nice. Now we get THIS!



We have NO GOLD at all and cannot do anything. So +1 angry faces in Istanbul meaning 1 unproductive citizen. Thanks guys!

Archer is done, dialing a settler in 10 turns. BW in 8 turns.

2525BC (59):

Another barb warrior shows up in a bid to kill off our corn again, so William Tell charges out to defend it.

2500BC (60):

Seems like the barb warrior is utterly mad and wants to attack Istanbul directly?

Anyways, 73% odds from Howard Hill who is chilling in Istanbul, so we charge out and win 3XP and the next combat promo.

We finish the grass hill mine and switch work to it, too bad that doesn't actually cut down time for the settler, sigh.

We are going to ATTEMPT to finish work on the last hill, sigh...

2475BC (61):

Howard Hill buys Combat 2 and retreats back into the city, sigh.

LeMay sees another barb warrior probably incoming in the next turn or two.

Sent a warrior east to take a closer look at the elephant/horse area, and all we found were more barbs! Dancing with the barbs and trying to let them attack Egypt, lol.

2450BC (62):

Scouting warrior just got attacked by a barb warrior and won flawless. We buy Woody 1. The archer danced to the SE, so we move NW away from it (let it attack Egypt).

2425BC (63):

Of course the barb archer ignores Egypt and swings back west towards us. And ANOTHER barb archer appears.



2400BC (64):

Barb archer attacks Horace Ford who is on the hill covering our worker. We win, whew.

Scouting warrior blunders into a barb archer and we're probably dead. We are in a forest, so we stand a SLIGHT chance of living, sigh.

William Tell pulls back to defend a farm as barbs come from the east and west. Howard Hill takes out a barb beside the city square.

2375BC (65):

And the scouting warrior survives! Only took 0.4 strength damage.

William Tell and an unnamed archer clean up the enemy warriors that swarmed the city last turn.

2350BC (66):



No copper at all sighted anywhere on the map. Not a huge surprise, I could have told you that before.

I revolt to slavery immediately, and dial up Pottery, as granaries are golden. Obviously can change that though.

A look at what's around.



Thinking we have enough information to dotmap some stuff, considering it's quite dangerous to go out and get more info.


EDIT: Total Barbs Killed: 13
 

Attachments

  • Boff-06 BC-2350.CivBeyondSwordSave
    73.3 KB · Views: 62
ok so you abused the wiki for archer names but no Worker name??? omgz.

well pony town first and then a southern block town for nappy hopfully sounds about right, will alloow a silver to goof with a dot map since he enjoys that so much.

I have the save.

Cheers!
-Liq
 
Ok, so dotmap spammed for your consideration.



Blue Dot is our Pony Dot that also manages to grab Phants, due to the likelihood of everyone else on the continent also having Phants (that's how these bloody things seem to work at least). There is no food anywhere near this dot, but we do win 7 grassland forest tiles, two of them riverside and all contiguous on sides facing away from potential enemies (but towards likely barb spawning areas). Painful because it lacks an actual food resource, but there are plenty of grasslands to farm once we're done with the forests.

Yellow Dot is... well... Yellow Dot! Boff convention to use Yellow Dot for the aggressive in-your-face blocking city. Debated with Liq the merits of putting this town on the hill vs getting the shinies 1 tile north. In the end, since it's a blocking town against Nappy, better to have it on a hill, rather than have it get run over because it wasn't on a hill. The gold is a desert gold anyways. We can always spam a filler town to pick it up if we REALLY wanted it.

Orange Dot is the one and only way to pick up the stone and fish in the same city. Not much else to be said about it really. A filler town, although the 6-food fish tile (after our half priced lighthouses!) is golden on this mapscript.

Red Dot is on a plains hill and picks up 8 grassland tiles, one of which is rice, so big food for an iceage mpa. Also win the gold, which is a plains gold and not desert gold.

Magenta Dot wins us fish and deer, because we can't possibly abandon food resources in our current state.


Was thinking about a town north of Istanbul, but with only deer there, it really isn't pressing and the terrain really is bad.....

One thing I notice is a big lack of happy resources (not that we have the food for a high happy cap anyways). We have gold and ivory for happiness right now. We have NO calendar resources, and the only ones in sight are in Hatty's land. That probably has to do with our lack of a serious jungle band. I am surprised that are north is so barren though, no furs or silver will make it annoying to get happiness. Probably looking at HR for most of the game.
 
Hi,

I don't have time to look the save before late afternoon (GMT+1)... but I would not skip the gold with the yellow site, i don't think we gain something by moving it south...
More comments tonight :)

Cheers
 
kind of a toss up to grab gold or one south for the hill. Keeping in mind the land really sucks for cottages though and well... The commerce from the gold mine might be better.

Well lets see your reasoning.

Grover is out since he wasnt to participate in his first SGOTM so that leaves 4... guess we can take one more person for this game since with DE it's 4 people.

Meh!

Cheers!
-Liq
 
Top Bottom