Bombers Don't Work

[docbud]

Hey gang--am new to this game. I play for fun and not records. Am using the Mac version from the download store and have all the DLCs.

I am playing Persia (one of the beginner levels), and am at war with Denmark. My bombers don't work against him or the city states he is aligned with. They just plain don't work. And when I click on the the range icon it shows nothing.

Also--my rocket units don't work against him either. I can be within 2 tiles of him and they don't work. He does have the Great Wall, but my city is within 6 tiles and bombers and jets don't work. I can attack his units, but not his cities.

Also--one infantry unit that Denmark had wiped out TWO of my rocket units in one turn. How is that possible?

I love this game and only play for strategy and fun and not records. But I can't understand why this game sometimes doesn't let my bombers or siege units work. I am definitely within range, but it's like the game doesn't recognize them.

I am a newbie and by no means an expert. But I have seen a lot of this bomber issues and them not working. Usually I find it can be fixed by moving an infantry unit, or quitting and restarting. But I've got 12 bombers and a dozen rocket units all set to take the capital, and not a damn thing works. It's like they don't exist.

Any ideas?

Thanks
doc

 

[Scarpa]

Are you sighting the cities? You can't attack cities that are not in line of sight of a unit.

As for one infantry taking out two rocket units, he must have had blitz on it.

 

[triheptyl]

You need to have the city in your sight. The "Fog of War", or the shading on the areas of the map you don't have visibility of, can't be attack with ranged units or aircraft.

Try moving a melee unit or a ship a bit closer, and make sure hills/forests aren't obstructing your view.

 

[Tiber4321]

Overall, sort of like Cavalry, Bombers are not really effective weapons in Civ 5, UNTIL they are upgraded to Stealth Bombers, then they will make a big time difference.

 

[Stealth Bumbler]

The range is really long, you have to look pretty far out to see where the "red line" is at. Otherwise, it is like others said; any ranged unit that can shoot over obstacles needs a spotter. Artillery, for example, has a range of 3 and sight of 2 so you need a unit positioned to see that third spot. So basically, you bombers are only going to be able to hit things that are close to your ground units.

Overall, sort of like Cavalry, Bombers are not really effective weapons in Civ 5, UNTIL they are upgraded to Stealth Bombers, then they will make a big time difference.

This I have to disagree with (well, not the cavalry part, cav has limited use.) Basic bombers are useful units. Bombers with promotions are somewhat powerful. Stealth bombers with promotions are the wrath of a vengeful god incarnate, an I WIN NAO MMKAY! button if you will, and that just makes the regular ones seem weak

 

[docbud]

Thanks gang--I had to upgrade to Stealth Bomber.

I had radar and satellites completed, and there is no fog left anywhere. It was weird that even when I was two tiles away from the capital that my rocket units didn't work either. And I had artillery and rocket units. Only obstacle their great wall (which I also had as I had grabbed a few of their cities and it possibly works both ways???)

Also--I can't believe there is no uranium anywhere on this map for this game. But that is a different story and it is making it intersting

I wasted a great scientist to grab that

Anyway--I think the Mac version is a bit buggy, as this is not the first time I've had problems with bombers and stuff (or other ranged units). Usually I have to make a melee unit or something do an action, and then suddenly it works.

Thanks for the help and advice, and I love your forum. I check it out daily. I am a newbie and I don't go for records or anything, but play for the stragety. That's why I'm in 2010 and a few turns away from a science victory. But then again, I'm kicking ass war-wise (I finally knocked off Denmark and Germany has 2 cities left).

In case it matters, I'm going on 50 years old, and just love the strategy part.

Thanks again and you have a great forum.

Oh--so far as the red line to show range--it was not showing any red at all. It was like the bombers did not exist and could not do anything. Same thing with my rocket units. I was even one tile away from the capital and I could not fire on them. But it got wiped out by one infantry unit.

It was definitely a very weird game with what happened.

Thanks again gang!

doc

 

[Monthar]

Overall, sort of like Cavalry, Bombers are not really effective weapons in Civ 5, UNTIL they are upgraded to Stealth Bombers, then they will make a big time difference.

Both bombers and cavalry are just fine even before they're upgraded to stealth and tanks. Use the Cavalry to spot for the bombers. The bombers take out units to clear a patch to the city then take the city down to 1HP, allowing any of the cavalry units that still have the movement to do so to take the city. Since cavalry has 4 movement points it can end its turn far enough from the city to not be hit by artillery.

Sure, lancers have more movement than the Cavalry, but fully upgraded to gunships, they lose the ability to capture cities. Cavalry, when fully upgraded to modern armor can still capture cities.

Building all the cavalry you can before combustion, then using all your oil for bombers, lets you get both units the promotions they need to hit logistics/blitz before the upgrade. Then as soon as you get stealth, you can upgrade as many of the bombers to stealth bombers as you have the aluminum for and take the oil they were using to upgrade those cavalry to tanks.

 

[steave435]

Thanks gang--I had to upgrade to Stealth Bomber.

I had radar and satellites completed, and there is no fog left anywhere. It was weird that even when I was two tiles away from the capital that my rocket units didn't work either. And I had artillery and rocket units. Only obstacle their great wall (which I also had as I had grabbed a few of their cities and it possibly works both ways???)

Also--I can't believe there is no uranium anywhere on this map for this game. But that is a different story and it is making it intersting

I wasted a great scientist to grab that

Anyway--I think the Mac version is a bit buggy, as this is not the first time I've had problems with bombers and stuff (or other ranged units). Usually I have to make a melee unit or something do an action, and then suddenly it works.

Thanks for the help and advice, and I love your forum. I check it out daily. I am a newbie and I don't go for records or anything, but play for the stragety. That's why I'm in 2010 and a few turns away from a science victory. But then again, I'm kicking ass war-wise (I finally knocked off Denmark and Germany has 2 cities left).

In case it matters, I'm going on 50 years old, and just love the strategy part.

Thanks again and you have a great forum.

Oh--so far as the red line to show range--it was not showing any red at all. It was like the bombers did not exist and could not do anything. Same thing with my rocket units. I was even one tile away from the capital and I could not fire on them. But it got wiped out by one infantry unit.

It was definitely a very weird game with what happened.

Thanks again gang!

doc

1. I VERY much doubt there's no fog left, do not confuse it with the clouds that cover the map before you've explored it. "Fog" refers to darker areas of the map where you're unable to see units. You need to get one of your units close enough that the target hex lights up.

2. It's impossible for both of you to have the great wall, once one civ builds it noone else can do it. Regardless, the only effect is that enemies move slower trough the owners territory.

3. Are you able to build the manhattan project? If not, you don't have the tech to see uranium, and it does seem very weird that there'd be none at all.

4. This isn't relevant in this specific case since at that tech level you automatically have indirect fire on all units so you can fire over obstacles, but in earlier eras you have to consider the individual units LOS (Line Of Sight) as well since without indirect fire they (the specific unit firing, just any unit seeing it is not enough) need to be able to see the target to fire at it. That means you can't fire over hills or forests unless the unit firing is also on a hill, but even then you're unable to fire over a hex containing a forest on top of a hill.


It's quite possible that some of your problems are caused by mac bugs, I'm not sure, but I doubt it's all due to that.

 

[docbud]

^^^
1. Maybe it's possible I am confusing that with the fog of war. And I had 2 rocket units 2 tiles away from their capital. In fact, one of their infantry took one rocket unit out. I was unable to give air support even though my bombing city was 6 tiles away.

2. Yeah, I figured two folks can't have the Great Wall. He had it at first, but then I guess I got it from the city he had it in (I conquered the city)

3. I do have the Manhattan Project, and I looked everywhere on the map and can't see any uranium. I have played games where there was very little. Maybe I have to explore more but that means going into enemy territory.

4. Thanks for the explanation.

I also doubt the problem in this game is due to Mac bugs, although the Mac version does have problems, though that may be a Lion OS-specific issue. And those issues are with problems loading saved games.

Overall, I do enjoy the game, and I appreciate everyone's help and advice.

Oh--I ended up going for a domination victory as I had gotten side-tracked while going for science due to Germany constantly attacking me. I paid Denmark to go to war with Germany, then I turned on Denmark and wiped them out. They were close to a culture victory.

 

[steave435]

1. I'm not certain, but I think even rocket artillery retain the "limited visibility" (or something like that) "promotion", reducing the range they can see things at to only 1 hex away. If that is the case and there were no other friendly units there, you would only lift the fog from the hex in between then and the city, but not the fog on the city tile, making an attack impossible. If that is the case, then a infantry unit inside the city (or 2 hexes away in any other direction) would be able to cross any type of open terrain from outside your visible range and in to melee range of your artillery before you could see it, or from even further away if they had roads they could use.

3. Hmm, that is very weird. I'm pretty new, but I've never heard of a game where there were none, and if you have satellites it can't be hidden in a tile you can't see. The only thing I can think of is that the AI could have settled cities on top of it. If that's the case, the resource will be connected but the resource icon over the tile will be replaced by the standard info displayed over all cities, so you could only find it by hovering your mouse over it and reading the description. It seems extremely unlikely to me, but it's the only thing I can think of....I think it's either that, or there really is a bug in that regard at least, maybe due to those load/save issues loosing the resource or something.

Nice to hear you're doing well though

 

[docbud]

^^yeah--the whole thing is strange. I couldn't attack Denmark or the city states it was allied with. It's like I was not allowed to. After I upgraded all my bombers to Stealth, then I could bomb away. But prior to that I couldn't even fire on their infantry with my rockets or fighters. It definitely slowed down my progress

But I've wiped them out and now I turn my attention to Germany...

 

[Monthar]

Had you declared on Denmark at that point, or were you trying to auto-declare by attacking with the ranged/air units?

 

[FeiLing]

^^yeah--the whole thing is strange. I couldn't attack Denmark or the city states it was allied with. It's like I was not allowed to. After I upgraded all my bombers to Stealth, then I could bomb away.

Sounds like you were in the 10 turns after a peace treaty. That deal can not be broken.

 

[docbud]

Monthar and FeiLing:

We were at war--and no peace treaty. I did sneak attack him, if that makes a difference. I can understand possibly my first bomber wave not working, but this went on for over 30 turns with me trying to figure out why none of my units could attack his (or his cities--and his CS allies). And I couldn't even attack his infantry, even though they were putting a hurting on me. It's like I wasn't allowed to do anything against them.

But once I got to Stealth, all was okay.

I just finished the game with a diplomatic victory (United Nations). I already had the scientific victory locked up (was holding my last space rocket piece), and definitely had it done so far as domination. But I figured I'd try for the UN as I was making a ton of money, and was unstoppable. I love Persia as I was in a Golden Age most of the game [I had the Chicken thing as well].

 

[Camikaze]

Welcome to the forums.

Thanks gang--I had to upgrade to Stealth Bomber.

I had radar and satellites completed, and there is no fog left anywhere. It was weird that even when I was two tiles away from the capital that my rocket units didn't work either. And I had artillery and rocket units. Only obstacle their great wall (which I also had as I had grabbed a few of their cities and it possibly works both ways???)

1. I VERY much doubt there's no fog left, do not confuse it with the clouds that cover the map before you've explored it. "Fog" refers to darker areas of the map where you're unable to see units. You need to get one of your units close enough that the target hex lights up.

Just to correct this, 'fog of war' is the cloud cover. What steave435 is referring to is 'line of sight', and the distinction here is an important one. See here for the civilopedia entry. You cannot attack into either the fog of war or tiles where you don't have line of sight, but it is not sufficient that you have gotten rid of the fog of war if you want to attack. You must have line of sight in the tile you wish to attack (this is what steave435 is describing, just with the wrong name). This is indicated by the tile being 'lit up', as opposed to the normal darkness.

Now, it doesn't sound like that's the case here, so it's either a bug or a technical issue of some sort. docbud, would be able to provide a save from a turn where this happened (the game should make an autosave every 10 turns)? I can't check it, but hopefully someone with the Mac version will be able to. Do you have any screenshots of this happening? Have you tried the keyboard shortcut for ranged attack, or have you just been clicking on the ranged attack button (or right clicking)?

 

[steave435]

Hmm, that's weird, in all other games I've played and all guides/posts I've read discussing it it has referred to the areas where you don't have LOS, and that matches best to the military term that it originally came from. Like in real life, you know what the terrain looks like, but the "fog of war" prevents you from knowing if anything has changed.

 

[Camikaze]

Yeah, that's true and it's a little confusing how it is named, so it's an entirely understandable mistake (this guide makes the same mistake, for example (which I guess we should probably fix )). But I guess some distinction has to be made, and that's how it's generally referred to (this is why early game exploration is often termed 'fog-busting', as opposed to general scouting of already revealed enemy territory later in the game).

 

[docbud]

@Camikaze: Thanks for the welcome. Unfortunately I didn't keep any saved games. But next time something weird happens I will keep a saved version as well as take screenshots.

Thanks

 

[Tiber4321]

@ Monthar

I have to disagree somewhat. Cavalry are useless in combat, they just get killed. I'll never send a cav into harm's way again. You say to use Cav to spot for bombers? I've tried that, every time a cav is far in the advance, by itself, it just gets wiped out. Besides, by the time you have bombers, you will have upgraded Cavs into tanks. Also, upgrading cav to tanks costs you 1 oil and gives you back 1 horse. Interesting how Cav went from one of the most devastating weapons in Civ 3, to a useless weapon in Civ 5. Although building 15 or so for upgrade to tank is a cheap way to get tanks.

 

[steave435]

@ Monthar

I have to disagree somewhat. Cavalry are useless in combat, they just get killed. I'll never send a cav into harm's way again. You say to use Cav to spot for bombers? I've tried that, every time a cav is far in the advance, by itself, it just gets wiped out. Besides, by the time you have bombers, you will have upgraded Cavs into tanks. Also, upgrading cav to tanks costs you 1 oil and gives you back 1 horse. Interesting how Cav went from one of the most devastating weapons in Civ 3, to a useless weapon in Civ 5. Although building 15 or so for upgrade to tank is a cheap way to get tanks.

Use it to spot any threats to it, which you take out with the bombers, and then retreat if necessary.