Bonaparte IV

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Scenario League' started by McMonkey, Jul 9, 2011.

  1. McMonkey

    McMonkey ----Evertonian---- SLeague Staff

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,805
    Location:
    Cardiff
    I have just started work on a new version of Bonaparte intended as a ToT multiplayer game, though it should play Ok as a single player game too with a few added events. I think Bonaparte III left a lot to be desired and I want to address these issues in version IV. I will be using my tried and tested map of Europe and the rules from the original Bonaparte with a few modifications. I wanted to take advantage of ToT's extra unit slots and this is what I have come up with so far. I think it is a pretty good blend but I would appreciate comments from Napoleonic era experts as to which units to include, which to drop and what the best names for them should be. I will be doing my own research online and going through my books too, but any help is welcome!



    German Musketeers (Austria)
    Grenadiers (Austria)
    Landwehr (Austria)
    Jägers (Austria)
    Dragoons (Austria)
    Magyar Musketeers (Austria)
    Uhlan (Generic)
    Hussar (Generic)
    Kurasiers (Generic)
    Line Infantry (Britain)
    Grenadiers (Britain)
    Highland Infantry (Britain)
    Rifles (Britain)
    Light Dragoons (Britain)
    Dragoon Guards (Britain)
    Scots Greys (Britain)
    Kings German Legion (Britain)
    Life Guards (Britain)
    Régt. de Ligne (France)
    Grenadiers (France)
    Old Guard (France)
    Régt. Léger (France) or Voltigeur
    Chasseurs à Cheval (France)
    Curassier (France)
    Chevaux-Légers Lancier (France)
    Guard Grenadiers à Cheval (France)
    Guard Dragoons (France)
    Musketeers (Russian)
    Grenadiers (Russian)
    Guard Infantry (Russian)
    Jägers (Russian)
    Cossack Cavalry (Russian)
    Dragoons (Russian)
    Guard Chasseurs à Cheval (France)
    Guard Mamelukes (France)
    Guard Polish Lancers (France)
    Musketeers (Prussian)
    Grenadiers (Prussian)
    Landwehr (Prussian)
    Jägers (Prussian)
    Garde zu Fuss (Prussian)
    Dragoons (Prussian)
    Garde du Corps Kürassier
    Ottoman Infantry (Ottomans)
    Sipahi Cavalry (Ottomans)
    Musketeers (Sweden)
    Lifeguards (Sweden)
    Jägers (Sweden)
    Dragoons (Sweden)
    Spy (Generic)
    Musketeers (Spain)
    Grenadiers (Spain)
    Light Infantry (Spain)
    Dragoons (Spain)
    Line Infantry (Portuguese)
    Cacadores (Portuguese)
    Musketeers (Bavarian)
    Musketeers (Saxony)
    Line Infantry (United Provinces)
    Musketeers (Danish)
    Line Infantry (Generic)
    Napoleon
    Wellington
    Invasion Barges
    Bomb Ketch
    Brig
    Merchantman
    East Indiaman
    Frigate
    Two Decker
    Three Decker
    Blücher
    Workers
    Merchants
    Partisans
    Fortress
    Field Battery
    Howitzer Battery
    Horse Battery
    Marshall (France)
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Arthedain

    Arthedain - Celestial Being - SLeague Staff

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2001
    Messages:
    407
    Location:
    Helsingborg, Sweden
    To perfect such a scenario as Bonaparte, that would be really awesome! I'm no units expert on this period though.:mischief:
     
  3. McMonkey

    McMonkey ----Evertonian---- SLeague Staff

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,805
    Location:
    Cardiff
    I'm having some issues with CivConverter as usual. I can't for the life of me work out what I'm doing wrong. I'm following all the guides (the originals and Catfish's) but I can't get it to run.

    I have the CivConverter folder (named Converter) on my L: drive which is a USB stick.
    I have the scenario file (named Bon.scn) in a folder called Bon on the same L: drive

    So I open command prompt and type:

    I get a message saying:

    So I try:

    and get the message:

    So I then type:

    and get the reply:

    I also tried and many other combinations:

    I have got CivConverter to work before so I'm puzzled as to why it won't work now. Am I getting stupider? :blush:
     
  4. McMonkey

    McMonkey ----Evertonian---- SLeague Staff

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,805
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Here is the file if someone could help me out. I just need the raw scenario file converted. I can do everything else myself. I would like to know where I'm going wrong though as it is very frustrating to be foiled by such a simple command line utility!
     

    Attached Files:

    • Bon.7z
      File size:
      49 KB
      Views:
      167
  5. JPetroski

    JPetroski Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,854
    This looks very cool! :thumbsup: Unfortunately I have no idea how to convert things, but I hope you get it sorted soon, and I'm looking forward to playing this one!
     
  6. McMonkey

    McMonkey ----Evertonian---- SLeague Staff

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,805
    Location:
    Cardiff
    I was puzzled where I was going wrong with CivConverter as I have used it succesfully in the past and it really isn't complicated to use requiring only two lines of instructions. I began to suspect it was something up with my PC. I put the files onto a USB and tried them on my works laptop and would you Adam and Eve it the scenario converted first time! I'm not sure what my PC was blocking but its a relief to know I'm not a (complete) dummy. :D Cracking on with the scenario now.
     
  7. Arthedain

    Arthedain - Celestial Being - SLeague Staff

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2001
    Messages:
    407
    Location:
    Helsingborg, Sweden
    Good news then! :thumbsup:
     
  8. McMonkey

    McMonkey ----Evertonian---- SLeague Staff

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,805
    Location:
    Cardiff
    I have been thinking about unit marching speeds. Napoleon's army often used a speedy march (120 paces per minute compared with the standard 70 ppm) to outmanoeuvre and surprise his enemies. I read that the French Army marched 500 miles in 5 weeks to capture Vienna. The figure bear this out. If their fast march allowed them to cover approximately 15 miles per day then 400 miles a month would seem a reasonable average. On my European map this would equate to around 20 squares or the march on roads from Koblenz on the Rhine to Berlin (though they could not attack at the end). This would mean the Infantry having a movement rate of 5 and a Road Move Multipler (RMM) of 4. Light Cavalry would have a movement of 7 and a road movement of 28 which would allow them to move from Koblenz to central Poland in a month/turn. Other armies Infantry would be slightly slower giving the French a tactical advantage. They may need this as they are likely to be taking on all comers!

    This would be historically accurate, but do you think it would it make a good multiplayer game? It would certainly make predicting an enemy forces planned moves much less predictable and could lead to a more open free flowing game. On the other hand it could be too much advantage for the player who gets to move first in the play order each turn. In effect one side gets to march hundreds of miles and attack while their opponent is stood still. Also how will it effect the game if units can potentially attack five+ times in a single turn? Also what would I do about realistic ship movement? I intended to make all ships subs to make naval combat more interesting, but if the scouting ships have massive movement rates they can just methodically scour the ocean for the enemy instead of bumping into them without warning.

    Perhaps I am better of using more conventional movement rates for the sake of gameplay over historical accuracy. Your views are welcome on this issue!

    One new(ish) idea I have for this scenario is a house rule on vassal status. For example France captures Vienna (and holds it for a set number of turns). Austria would be forced to surrender and become a vassal of France. France would hand back Austria's cities and Austria would have to do as they are told by the French. Vassal status would be cancelled if Vienna is liberated by (for example) Russia. In which case Austria can strike back at the French. I will need to spend a bit of time working out the details so it is not too complicated to follow and there are no unwanted loopholes or anomalies. The overall concept is to prevent the usual wars of annihilation and allow nations to possibility to recover from defeat in a war. I will need a good points and objectives system to back this up. Ultimately I would like to take part in a game of Civ2 that plays out more like a game of Risk with the advantage moving back and forth and players swapping sides as it best suits their foreign policy.

    One thing I need to consider carefully is the role of trade in the scenario. Often trade really enhances a multiplayer game, but it can also become too dominant and if one side falls behind (IE their traders are wiped out in a sneak attack or their only possible trade route is cut) they can effectively be beaten financially (cannot rush build units) and technologically (cannot get to vital unit on the tree). As most of the units and improvement are available from the start it may even be worthwhile cutting trade altogether. I will have to consider this carefully. Again your views are welcome.

    That's all for now. ;)
     
  9. techumseh

    techumseh Emperor SLeague Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,939
    Location:
    BC wine country
    In a multi-player scenario, I'd suggest leaving treaty questions to the negotiations of the players. However, with the rise of nationalism during the Napoleonic Wars, the risk of uprisings or full-blown wars of national liberation was significant for a conqueror who overstayed his welcome.

    Events could provide countries that are partially or completely occupied for a period of time with additional units (guerrillas or regular units), with triggers based on the length and extent of the occupation. The risk, intensity, and type of uprising could be varied by country.

    Spain, for instance, would have a high risk, intensive, and guerrilla type of uprising. Austria would have a low risk, moderate intensity, and conventional type of uprising. Prussia would have a moderate risk, moderate intensity, and conventional type of uprising. Russia would have a high risk, low intensity, and mixed type. And so on.

    Marching speeds should be a compromise. Higher speeds favour the offensive. Too high and balance is upset, too low and you won't have time to get to Moscow (and back) before the game is over. I experimented with this when I made Frederick the Great, and was happy with the result: Siege artillery=2, Infantry and Artillery=3, Leaders, Curiassers and Horse Artillery=4, Dragoons=5, Hussars=6, Cossacks=7. I suggest adding one to French infantry and artillery until 1812.

    I used a road multiplier of 2, which is appropriate for a pre-motorized army.

    Powerful units with a high movement factor can attack over and over in the same turn, which can be unrealisticly devastating. This is a particular problem for ship units with very high movement factors. You can compensate by keeping firepower low (~1, or 2 for artillery and ships) and hits high (~3 or 4), and keeping the difference between attack and defense factors relatively small. This provides more predictable results, so a more powerful attacking unit will usually win, but will take damage, which prevents it from attacking over and over in the same turn.

    I hope this helps.
     
  10. Cyrion

    Cyrion Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    65
    I think gameplay is even more important than historical accuracy!

    And what you might do to improve accuracy could be to change the turn length from 1 month to 2 weeks? :confused:
     
  11. McMonkey

    McMonkey ----Evertonian---- SLeague Staff

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,805
    Location:
    Cardiff
    @Both
    I tend to agree with you both that gameplay must triumph over historical accuracy. I think somewhere around half the historically accurate movement rates might work well. I would prefer to keep the movement rates low (2 for Infantry, 4 for Light Cavalry) but use a higher RMM (perhaps x5). I will try the game with these rates and adjust accordingly.

    @Cyrion
    I would like to lengthen the game a bit but I'm not sure how to get the dates to move up in fortnightly increments. Any tips?

    @Techumseh
    I like your ideas for rebellions. It is a more high tech solution to the problem. I could expand the idea to allow the recreation of entire armies when certain criteria are met. This would allow a player a route back into the game after a defeat. Thankfully ToT's events will allow for such events and as I wont need to use loads to prop up the AI there should be plenty of space. Thanks for the idea!

    BTW Where did you dissapear to? You are welcome to play on as the Parthians in Roman Civil Wars at Webring. The AI has only played a turn or two for you and hopefully hasn't made too much of a mess yet!
     
  12. Radyserb

    Radyserb Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Bautzen/Budyšin
    McMonkey, maybe you should let the french infantry threat all squares as roads to simulate their spead. Or would this be too mighty again?
     
  13. McMonkey

    McMonkey ----Evertonian---- SLeague Staff

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,805
    Location:
    Cardiff
    I was planning to give the French Infantry an extra movement point so they are as fast as Curassiers but slower than Dragoons. This will simulate the Corps system and the faster marching rates. I think giving them the alpine flag would make them too powerful.

    I have been doing bits and pieces to this scenario over the past week or so and it is shaping up nicely. The main things I need to do now are place the units and write the new events. After that I will look at altering the tech tree or making a brand new one.
     
  14. McMonkey

    McMonkey ----Evertonian---- SLeague Staff

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,805
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Just bumping this thread as I'm considering focussing on this as my next project and I want to be able to find it easily. I would be ditching the multiplayer concept and going for a single player French version, starting during the revolution. I would like to make it highly reactive to the players actions, rather than trying to force them down historical paths at set dates. Watch this space!
     
  15. Patine

    Patine Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    8,263
    This very much looks like it has great potentional! I've been looking hoping for a good single-player, fully-inclusive Napoleonic scenario from a French perspective for some time (as, almost all previous incarnations have been meant for multi-player), and I do very much like the idea of starting in the Revolution and reacting to the human player's actions. I just guess the idea wasn't realistically probable before the ToTPP patch.
     
  16. McMonkey

    McMonkey ----Evertonian---- SLeague Staff

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,805
    Location:
    Cardiff
    I think that trying to restrict a player to historical battles and campaigns would be extremely complex and ultimately frustrating for players. I'm going to aim for a 'make up your own history' with events mostly reacting to what's happening in game. I haven't quite worked out how I will do this yet, but I'm sure with the extra ToTPP events space it will be possible. I will probably just gather ideas for this project for now while I focus on other scenarios that are nearer to completion.
     
  17. Patine

    Patine Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    8,263
    @McMonkey

    This scenario probably hasn't crossed your mind for quite, and I have no idea where on your bucket list it may (if it's still there), but, I had another glance at your tentative units.bmp file on the first post, and, having just read an article on them, I was wondering the horseman in the black uniform with white trim and the saber (usually indicating Hussar-style units in fairline's post-Medieval cavalry drawing style) in the Fanatics default slot with no unit flag is in the Black Brunswicker unit, or if they had actually been overlooked?

    Edit - Sorry, didn't see you had listed the unit names under the units.bmp file. In that case, might I suggest, if and when you get around to this, if you indulge in the ToTPP extra unit slots, including them as a event-created cavalry unit, probably under British control.
     
  18. voltar

    voltar Drunken Russian

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2001
    Messages:
    1,020
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Shoot, I got excited for sec

    Would love to play this
     
  19. McMonkey

    McMonkey ----Evertonian---- SLeague Staff

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,805
    Location:
    Cardiff
    To be honest I haven't looked at this project for some time. It was devised as a multiplayer game, but with the demise of that scene it was put aside. The map is there and I think it would be possible to convert it into a single player game. The biggest issue would be how to make a fun scenario with so many units to manage. Patient English's (John Ellis) original was a really good scale for single player. I just worry that a single player version on a large map would be a really time consuming slog. Perhaps when Yugoslav Partisans is completed I will go back and re-examine this project. It would be worth it just to see all these fantastic units in action.
     
  20. techumseh

    techumseh Emperor SLeague Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,939
    Location:
    BC wine country

Share This Page