Bonus and malus for health levels

[ggmoyang]

In BE devs adjusted negative health malus so it's not too be severe as it was in Civ 5, and added high health bonus possibly there's no golden age counter in BE.

According to Civilopedia(or whatever it's called in BE) there's 6 levels for health. Known levels:

over 10: ??? and -50% intrigue for opponent spies in your city (I forgot the first bonus)
over 0: +20% outpost growth
under 0: -10% science, -10% culture
under -10: -10% production, +100% intrigue for opponent spies in your city
under -20: -50% growth, -50% outpost growth

(bonus/malus are cumulative with earlier levels)

Can anyone check the last level(which would be either +20 or -30) and +10 bonus? Thanks!

 

[AriochIV]

How can you have +0 and -0? Shouldn't it be +1 and -1?

 

[ggmoyang]

I meant any positive/negative value, I'll rewrite them.

 

[aguliondew]

With health being hard to get I see the higher difficult AI being more interesting. They can not just mass expand without consequence. Seems like health effects your time to win more than your ability to grow, unlike civ 5 when a deficit of health means your city get set back.

 

[AriochIV]

With health being hard to get I see the higher difficult AI being more interesting. They can not just mass expand without consequence.

Sure they can; they'll just cheat.

 

[aguliondew]

Playing on any difficult above prince you expect the AI to get some bonuses. Without it they do dumb stuff and waste alot of their turns. Its not cheating if you ask for it . Sure I will try deity and let the AI start with 2 settlers and increased production/happiness. Only won a handful of times and it gets frustrating very fast.

AI's landing after you, few health options, and negative science/culture when not healthy. The AI will be playing catch-up (which should not take them long) instead of you. As long as you have a end goal staying ahead will be easier.

 

[Knut_Are_M]

so High Health is a way to get really good spy defence, and low Health makes you really vulnearable to spies. Looks like you can go into negative Health, but you suffer some minor penalties and a huge penalty to spies and growth.

so send Your spies to the civ that have negative Health and ignore those With high Health since those players will be really hard to spy on.

So prosperity does indirectly have better spy defence most of the time since Health helps vs spies.

also prosperity gets more and more positive Health for every city they can get there hands on. they can get excess Health With ease With the use of some biowells.

 

[3of5]

Its not exactly on topic, but somewhere it got mentioned that in larger maps health mali for cities and/or population are smaller, to help in filling the map better. So on a huge map it might be easier to get that third city out without going into negative health.

I think thats a good balancing idea, especcially as there seem to remain wild areas on bigger maps anyway. Good alien planet feel.

 

[ggmoyang]

Its not exactly on topic, but somewhere it got mentioned that in larger maps health mali for cities and/or population are smaller, to help in filling the map better. So on a huge map it might be easier to get that third city out without going into negative health.

I think thats a good balancing idea, especcially as there seem to remain wild areas on bigger maps anyway. Good alien planet feel.

It was same in civ 5. Virtue cost/tech cost penalty per city is also lowered in larger maps.

 

[Cyon]

so High Health is a way to get really good spy defence, and low Health makes you really vulnearable to spies. Looks like you can go into negative Health, but you suffer some minor penalties and a huge penalty to spies and growth.

so send Your spies to the civ that have negative Health and ignore those With high Health since those players will be really hard to spy on.

So prosperity does indirectly have better spy defence most of the time since Health helps vs spies.

also prosperity gets more and more positive Health for every city they can get there hands on. they can get excess Health With ease With the use of some biowells.

Hm.. or even more evil, sabotage your oppenents helth first, either trade them a newly conquered large pop city, or if you are already in war with them, use cavalry and pillage their biowells... and then flip their capital, worm it or play with some dirty nukes....

 

[joncnunn]

How can you have +0 and -0?

You actually can in the one's compliment version of binary for signed numbers. (It was replaced quickly by two's compliment to eliminate that quirk.)

But there actually is some math (involving limits) in which both "+0" and "-0" have specific meaning.

 

[joncnunn]

With health being hard to get I see the higher difficult AI being more interesting. They can not just mass expand without consequence. Seems like health effects your time to win more than your ability to grow, unlike civ 5 when a deficit of health means your city get set back.

The most noteworthy portion is that dropping below 0 doesn't affect production and so will allow you to get back above.
Dropping below -10 under this though and you'll have a harder time getting back above with the production penalty taking place then.

Sure they can; they'll just cheat.

Indeed, this is called Civ V Vanilla (and G&K) playing on Chieftain which only got 60% of the unhappiness of the human did on prince.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The most noteworthy portion is that dropping below 0 doesn't affect production and so will allow you to get back above.
Dropping below -10 under this though and you'll have a harder time getting back above with the production penalty taking place then.



Indeed, this is called Civ V Vanilla (and G&K) playing on Chieftain which only got 60% of the unhappiness of the human did on prince.

Well except its only a 10% penalty, and it does affect your Culture (one of the 3 ways of getting health: virtues, buildings, or improvements)

 

[joncnunn]

and it does affect your Culture (one of the 3 ways of getting health: virtues, buildings, or improvements)

Which the AI even in BNW only pays 67% of the cost of policies as a human on Prince (and above.)

So if this handicap level is unchanged in BE, the AI with healthiness of -5 is still getting policies faster than a human does who with a positive healthiness.