Borders of the West?

[Pangur Bán]

The "West's" scientific and technological, and consequently, political and cultural successes have created what in some respects is the first ever One-World Civilization. This civilization has its origins in Europe, and has spread through the Americas and Asia on the expansion of European states and their off-spring. Today, although much of the non-western world is independent politically, the technological and cultural dominance of the West encompasses the elites of most cultures.

However, the question and poll will be concerned with the West's modern Borders. I don't think anyone would disagree that the West includes as its core, western Europe , north America, Australia and New Zealand. Most people may take it to include the Orthodox worlds of Russia, Greece, Bulgaria and so on, and probably Israel too. Latin America might be included? But are Japan and S. Korea included? Singapore? Does the fact that the high elites of India are basically westernized mean that we should include India too? Does the West basically include everywhere there is a westernized elite?

But what do we mean by "western?"

In historical terms, the roots of the West lie in Christianity and Graeco-Roman high culture, which have been modified by the (pretty similar) native European cultures they originally encountered. By about 1492, the West can be taken to be synonymous with (Chaldean) Christiandom.

As a modern cultural term, it is often associated with liberal economic values, democracy and, for many non-westerners - the English language. It used to be associated with race, and I suspect that, although this would be rejected overtly, it is probably the most common method of identification.

The question I'm asking OT is, what are the West's modern boudaries?

 

[Hitro]

Western Civilization goes beyond borders, it is also a form of international culture and lifestyle that can exist in a country only through a few people living it.

When it comes to countries that are predominantly Western I would say it's Europe, North America and parts of the Commonwealth, particularly Australia and New Zealand.
Probably also Israel and South Africa, though the latter is a questionable case.
In Europe the former Eastern bloc is a difficult zone as well, as different countries there are "Western" to a different degree. Belorus certainly less than the Czech Republic, for example. And Latvia certainly more than Russia. And so on...

 

[Archer 007]

Chiefly Europe, the Americas, and Japan.

 

[Hitro]

Originally posted by archer_007
Chiefly Europe, the Americas, and Japan.

Japan as a main part of the Western civilization?

I don't think "Western Civilization" equals "Industrial and Technological Advancement".

 

[Marla_Singer]

As long as there's no more "Eastern Europe" and that most of these countries are member of the EU, I see no reason to excluse the baltic states and Central Europe from the West.

Well, to vote, I've just picked all countries that are culturally directly linked with Europe (including Latin America and Russia... but not Georgia and Armenia).

 

[WillJ]

The following are clearly Western:

Western Europe & North America (USA and Canada)
Australia and New Zealand
Latin America

The following are hard to say, but I consider Western:

South Africa
Israel
Eastern Europe (excluding eastern Slav lands)
The Baltic Nations (Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia)
Russia, Belarus and Ukraine
Georgia and Armenia
Turkey

The following are hard to say, but I consider Eastern/Nonwestern:

Westernizing South-East Asia (excluding Singapore)
Singapore
Former Soviet Central Asia
Former British India (excl. Nepal and Burma)

The following are clearly Eastern/Nonwestern:

Japan and South Korea
China, Mongolia and North Korea
Indo-China, Indonesia, Burma, Nepal or Bhutan
Islamic Middle East
Sub-Saharan Africa (excluding South Africa)

 

[Pangur Bán]

The thing about Georgia and Armenia is that they're both Christian, both historically (they are two of the world's first christian nations) and presently - don't know if that'll make a difference

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by Hitro

Japan as a main part of the Western civilization?

I don't think "Western Civilization" equals "Industrial and Technological Advancement".

Japan's culture has alot of elements that seem non-Eastern in nature.

 

[andrewgprv]

Western Europe, USA, Canda, Austrailia, New Zealand, Israel are what I consider western.

I think Russia, Slavic and Orthodox countries are in a sort of class of their own.

 

[Perfection]

Well with globalisation there is really a viable arguement for Japan's westernization. There is an embrace of the middle class consumer culture, and a focus on individuality that is present in westernized countries. Of course, there is also a whole lot of differences as well, such as religion and gender roles. It all really depends on what charecteristics you define as western.

 

[amadeus]

U.S. and Canada
Western Europe
Israel
Japan
East Asian Tigers (Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore)

I would have included South Africa, but I would say they have economically and politically regressed into a wealthier basketcase.

Latin America was too broad of a definition for me to check it, but I would check it for Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and Uruguay. Columbia and Venezuela do not have economies advanced enough per capita for me to consider part of the "Western." Central American economies are much poorer than South American, so that was a bit of a breaking point as well.

 

[Sarevok]

Europe, US, Canada, Japan, Russia, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

 

[Goober]

Canada, USA, Western Europe, Russia, Japan, South Korea, Thailand, Taiwan, and Singapore are all nations I would call Western.

I am not sure about Brazil, South Africa, or Isreal, or Pakistan (Pro-West count?).

And that is all the Nations I consider Western.

 

[amadeus]

Thailand could be on the way, but there is not much of an educated Thai base to begin real first world industries (maybe some could fit inside Bangkok.) Much of Thailand's population still lives poor lives compared to that of other East Asian states.

 

[Drewcifer]

I'm not sure how to characterize Latin America in this. Most of the cities are certainly western. Through colonialism western culture has become a dominating force there. At the same time there are many areas where western culture is just a thin veneer that has been superimposed over the cultures that existed prior to 1492. This is mostly the case in rural areas in Central America and the Andes. There it is a hybrid culture. The Incas, the Maya, the Toltecs, etc. never completely went away; they just converted to Christianity and learned Spanish. Actually some of them still haven't gotten around to learning Spanish yet. I onced worked with a guy who spoke Quetchwa, the old Inca language, at home; his Spanish was a little better than mine which isn't saying much.

 

[Drewcifer]

How do you define western? Does it just mean rich with a free market economy? That doesn't do it for me. I think it is having a culture that is rooted in the philosophies of the enlightenment figures like Voltaire and Montesquieu, and origins in the Greco-Roman Judeao-Christian tradition.

 

[WickedSmurf]

Western Europe & North America (USA and Canada) and Australia and New Zealand are the ones that seem clear. Apart from those I would like to believe that Latin & South America also fit in. There are some east European countries that also could be considered western these days.

As the culture (well, kinda) emulates from Western Europe, that region is in. The others I mentioned are colonized and created by nations from said region, thus making them similair in several aspects.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[hawai_74]

Western Europe & North America
Australia and New Zealand
Eastern Europe with the Baltic Nations (Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia), i agree Marla
Japan and South Korea
Singapore
Turkey (a recent cool one)

 

[Xen]

well, from my point of veiw, i tend to dissassociate the Christian religion from western culture, as IMO, a country can be western in its culture, but not predominatelly christian in religion... my definition of the west is any nation whos majority of population have a "daily culture" based on the practices, and thoughts traditionally found in European nations- this basically means that if they hold dear some of the most ancient loves of civilized european naions- such as freedom of thought, freedom of the indivudual, freedom of chopice, and so on, more or less leading on to democracy, that would be what I consider a major stepping stone into being wester- the OTHER major blocks, are, of course, using an Alphabet based off of either greek (like Cyrillic in Russia for example), or Latin, as well as a greatdeal of other lesser , and other little pieceis of uniquelly European culture

that said, here is my definition of "The West"

-Europe (this includes Russia & friends folks, as Russia, Belarus and thebUkraine are a part of europe )
-N.America
-Turkey
-Israle
-Georgia and Armenia (who, in my mind, should be considered part of Europe anyway)
-Australia, New Zealand, and S. Africa
-most central, and South American nations
-*possibly* India
-Liberia

 

[AceChilla]

Having money and technology of course doen't make you western, countries don't become western once they start a democracy and have freedom of speech and all that. The western culture is more, much more than only that.

It's a culture that has brought forward the most art, literature and science the world has ever seen. It has made some incredible achievments uncomparable with any other part of the world.

Western is in my opinion:

Western Europe and North America
Australie and new Zealand
Israel
The Baltic Nations (Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia)
And some parts of central Europe, let's say untill people are no longer christian bu become orthodox.

That's were the west stops.

How someone could say Japan, and south east Asia are western really puzzels me. Why because they have democracy and mobile phones? Is that the definition of western culture for you?

Maybe you should ask them yourself but watch out you don't get kung fu'd if you call them western. Asian pride you know