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Born of Fire: Discussion and Development Thread

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Creation & Customization' started by RedAlert, Jul 6, 2007.

  1. RedAlert

    RedAlert Love one another

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    Born of Fire
    The Mesoamerican Project Continued

    Background
    I started this project several years ago as a simple modification to the mesoamerican conquest. The mod has reached its present form only after several reincarnations and ressurections. A very special thank you to Sword_Of_Geddon and co.; who kept the project alive for over one and a half years while I was away from the forums, and to everyone who contributed their ideas, support, and work in the old thread.

    Navigation

    Info

    Civilizations
    Civilization Traits
    Tech Tree

    Requests

    Tech Icons
     
  2. RedAlert

    RedAlert Love one another

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    Info

    Civilizations
    Here's the civ lineup. To be decided: Leaderheads.
    This mod uses different civilization traits. See below for details.

    Mesoamerican

    Aztecs
    Agricultural, Warlike
    Huastecs
    Artistic, Commercial
    Maya
    Innovative, Religious
    Mixtecs
    Artistic, Warlike
    Olmecs
    Commercial, Innovative
    Pipil
    Agricultural, Artistic
    Tarascans
    Productive, Warlike
    Teotihuacan
    Agricultural, Productive
    Toltecs
    Ordered, Religious
    Zapotecs
    Commercial, Ordered

    Andean

    Chachapoya
    Commercial, Productive
    Chavin
    Artistic, Innovative
    Chibchan
    Artistic, Productive
    Chimor
    Commercial, Warlike
    Huari
    Productive, Religious
    Inca
    Ordered, Warlike
    Mapuche
    Artistic, Ordered
    Moche
    Commercial, Religious
    Nazca
    Agricultural, Innovative
    Tiwanaku
    Agricultural, Ordered


    Civilization Traits
    Civilization traits have been altered to accomodate the mesoamerican theme.

    Agricultural (Replaces Agricultural)
    - Cities produce extra food
    - Irrigated deserts produce extra food
    - Buildings marked 'agricultural' are cheaper

    Artistic (Replaces Commercial)
    - Larger cities produce extra commerce
    - Levels of corruption are lower

    Commercial (Replaces Seafaring)
    - Cities on the coast produce extra commerce
    - Ships have less chance of sinking in seas and oceans
    - Buildings marked 'commercial' are cheaper

    Innovative (Replaces Scientific)
    - Gain one free technology at the start of each era
    - Appearance of scientific great leaders is more likely
    - Buildings marked 'innovative' are cheaper

    Ordered (Replaces Religious)
    - Anarchy lasts one turn
    - Buildings marked 'ordered' are cheaper

    Productive (Replaces Industrious)
    - Larger cities produce extra shields
    - Workers work faster

    Religious (Replaces Expansionist)
    - Can build priests, and start the game with one
    - Priests can enslave; enslaved units may be sacrificed
    - Goody huts are more lucrative

    Warlike (Replaces Militaristic)
    - Unit promotions are more likely
    - Buildings marked 'warlike' are cheaper


    Tech Tree
    Here's the tech tree layout.

    Legend
    -Techs enclosed in blue are available to all civs. They are tradeable.
    -Techs enclosed in green are available only to central american civs. They are not tradeable.
    -Techs enclosed in red are available only to andean civs. They are not tradeable.
    -Every civilization has one unique tech. These techs are marked *(civ name).

    Spoiler era one :
    Era One

    Spoiler era two :
    Era Two

    Spoiler era three :
    Era Three

    Subsequent eras coming soon.
     
  3. RedAlert

    RedAlert Love one another

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    Requests
    There are some things that need to be done that I can't do myself (or at least do well). So I would like to make a general request to any and all creators who would be willing to help out. Needed items are listed below.
    Thank you :).

    Tech Icons
    Not being a very good tech icon maker myself, I've compiled a list of techs needing icons (with short descriptions) for anyone who would like to to take a stab at some.

    Legend
    - Techs requiring icons are listed in black.
    - Techs not requiring icons are listed in blue.
    - Techs unique to a culture group or civ are specified as such.
    - It would be nice, but is not necessary, to have two versions (Central American and Andean) of techs marked *, but a generic icon could work as well.

    Spoiler list :

    Preclassic Era / Early Horizon

    Fishing
    Archaic fishing.

    Hunting
    Archaic hunting.

    Mythology
    Creation legend, etc.

    Tools
    Archaic toold.

    Mining
    Archaic stone gathering and shaping.

    Agriculture
    Beginnings of farming.


    Pack Animal
    Llamas and Alpacas ftw!

    Social Hierarchy
    Beginnings of social stratification.

    Pottery
    Archaic pottery.

    Religious Ceremony
    Beginnings of religion.


    Labourer Class
    Beginnings of a worker class.

    Warrior Class
    Beginnings of a warrior caste.

    Noble Class
    Beginnings of Nobility.

    Bloodletting
    Ritual draining of blood.

    Ranged Weapons
    Atlatl & sling.

    Mummification
    Andean mummies.

    Ball Game
    Mesoamerican ball game.


    Monuments
    Religious monuments including stelae and obelisks.

    Trade
    Simple trading.

    Iconography
    Early Andean pictographs.

    Writing
    Origins of Mesoamerican writing.


    Calendar
    Mesoamerican calendar systems.


    Chiefdom
    Chiefdom government.


    Classic Era / Middle Horizon

    Artisan Class
    Class of artists, jewellers, craftsmen, etc.

    Bronze Working
    Andean bronze crafting.

    Hieroglyphics
    Mesoamerican hieroglyphics.


    Human Sacrifice
    Ritual killings.

    Monarchy
    Monarchy government.

    Obsidian Working
    Mesoamerican obsidian crafting.

    Terrace Farming
    Andean terraced farms.

    Urban Planning
    City layout.

    Archery*
    Bows & arrows.

    Construction
    Andean masonry and architecture.

    Craftsmanship
    Jewellery and textile production.

    Mathematics
    Mesoamerican mathematics, Mayan numerals, etc.


    Painting
    Murals.

    Ritual Warfare*
    Ritualised warfare.

    Ayllu
    Andean family grouping, social structure.

    Codices
    Mesoamerican form of book.


    Astronomy
    Mesoamerican observatories and astronomical observation.


    Pyramid Building
    Mesoamerican pyramids.

    Quipu
    Andean recording device.

    Religious Structures
    Andean temple building.

    Road Network
    Andean road system.


    Trade Network
    Mesoamerican trade system.

    Religious Cults*
    Religious orders and god worship.


    Postclassic Era / Late Horizon

    Bureaucracy
    Incan government organization.

    Calpolli
    Aztec administrative and social groupings.

    Commerce
    Advanced trading systems and networks.

    Defensive Structures
    Stone walls and fortifications.

    Professional Armies
    Aztec and Incan militaries.

    State Religion
    Cults of Huitzilopochtli or Inti.

    Amautas
    Wise Incan healers / teachers.


    Aquatic Trade
    Seafaring.

    Brewing
    Alcoholic beverages (Pulque, Chicha).

    Chasquis
    Incan scouts.

    Huehuetlatolli
    Aztec education by oral tradition.


    Intensive Agriculture
    Aztec chinampas.

    Military Orders
    Aztec military orders (Eagle, Jaguar, etc.)

    Pochteca
    Aztec merchants.

    Public Service
    Incan mita.

    Siege Warfare
    City conquest and defense.

    Hygene
    Aztec aqueducts and temazcals.

    Medicine
    Incan medicine.

    Taxation
    Incan system of taxation.

    Tribute
    Aztec tributary system.

    Empire*
    Aztec and Incan empires.

    Espionage*
    Spies and intelligence gathering.

    Subsequent Eras Coming Soon
     
  4. RedAlert

    RedAlert Love one another

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    -reserved 3-

    You may now post.
     
  5. Yoda Power

    Yoda Power ✫✫✫✫✫✫✫

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    Sounds interesting. I hope it works out. :)

    How about reposting that preview of those cities you've been working on, in this thread?
     
  6. Sword_Of_Geddon

    Sword_Of_Geddon Mysterious Jungle Warrior

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    I have cities I made for this mod back when I was working on the project full time:

    The second era is intended for the mod
     
  7. BadKharma

    BadKharma Chieftain

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    I like those cities SOG. Are they released anywhere?
    Red Alert very nice tech trees should be an interesting scenario.
     
  8. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    1. Wh00t! And a book on the Aztec/Mixtec/Zapotec Armies has arrived on my doorstep today, too!

    2. That's one hell of a confusing techtree :crazyeye: - I'm guessing that it will be a lot less confusing in-game, where civs don't need to see other civs trees!
     
  9. Quinzy

    Quinzy Chieftain

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    :D I bought a book on the Azteca a while ago too :D

    I fully support this mod :) Good luck!
     
  10. Sword_Of_Geddon

    Sword_Of_Geddon Mysterious Jungle Warrior

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  11. BadKharma

    BadKharma Chieftain

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    Thank you SOG I'm going to use them in a project I have going.
     
  12. RedAlert

    RedAlert Love one another

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    Thanks for your support, guys! :)

    Perfect! That would fit just right in era three for the central american civs (and the first era works fine for era one).

    ----------

    The first topic I would like to address is that of civilization traits. I'm not quite satisfied with the original eight traits, so I thought I'd take a note from R8XFT's book and create new ones. Of course what needs to be decided is what will the traits be, what advantages will they provide, and what civs will get what traits. So far I've come up with this:

    Agricultural - Food producing and population sustaining related bonuses
    Artistic - Cultural and happiness related bonuses
    Commercial - Trade related bonuses
    Innovative - Research and Cost related bonuses
    Productive - Shield producing and construction related bonuses
    Religious - Cultural related bonuses
    Structured - Empire building and sustaining related bonuses
    Warlike - Warfare and unit related bonuses

    All of these are subject to change. What exactly the bonuses of each trait will be I do not now. Any suggestions are welcome.
    My biggest problem is that I don't know how to go about implementing new, and altering existing traits in the editor. Are there any experts in that field that could point me in the right direction?
     
  13. BadKharma

    BadKharma Chieftain

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    As far as I know you can change the traits themselves, as they are hard coded. But you can change the ones assigned to each civ.
     
  14. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    I don't know if you're interested, but I'd be happy to pick up work again on the map I was doing for SoG, which is really only a "rough cut" at this point.
     
  15. Sword_Of_Geddon

    Sword_Of_Geddon Mysterious Jungle Warrior

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  16. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    BadKharma's right, although you can rename the traits in labels.txt and/or script.txt
     
  17. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    Yoda Power pointed out a lot of its shortcomings, all of which I would want to correct if it were to be used in this mod.
     
  18. RedAlert

    RedAlert Love one another

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    That's too bad. I suppose I'll just try to work around it.

    Yes please! :)

    Good icon, thanx! I had made a couple dozen icons long ago, but most of them were really bad. I guess it's for the better that I lost them all anyway!

    Really? I checked both files and couldn't find anything. Or should I just be looking harder?
     
  19. RedAlert

    RedAlert Love one another

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    Here's what I've put together for the civ-specific traits:

    Agricultural (Replaces Agricultural)
    - Cities produce extra food
    - Irrigated deserts produce extra food
    - Buildings marked 'agricultural' are cheaper

    Artistic (Replaces Commercial)
    - Larger cities produce extra commerce
    - Levels of corruption are lower

    Commercial (Replaces Seafaring)
    - Cities on the coast produce extra commerce
    - Ships have less chance of sinking in seas and oceans
    - Buildings marked 'commercial' are cheaper

    Innovative (Replaces Scientific)
    - Gain one free technology at the start of each era
    - Appearance of scientific great leaders is more likely
    - Buildings marked ' innovative' are cheaper

    Productive (Replaces Industrious)
    - Larger cities produce extra shields
    - Workers work faster

    Religious (Replaces Expansionist)
    - Can build priests, and start the game with one
    - Priests can enslave; enslaved units may be sacrificed
    - Goody huts are more lucrative

    Structured (Replaces Religious)
    - Anarchy lasts one turn
    - Buildings marked 'structured' are cheaper

    Warlike (Replaces Militaristic)
    - Unit promotions are more likely
    - Buildings marked 'warlike' are cheaper

    Based on these stats, are there any suggestions on which civs should have which traits?
     
  20. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    It's the labels.txt you need to find :) (Mesoamerica uses the one from the main game, so you need to copy it accross)

    Here is the text files with the traits already named. Now you'll also need to rename them in the Civilopedia, although for the most part, that can be done as you go along :)
     

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