BOTM 08 Final Spoiler

DynamicSpirit

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BOTM 08 Final Spoiler



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Aha, first in both spoilers. Except for the island to the east and a small island to the southwest, I did not expand off the initial island until Astronomy. I teched well with the small empire, but played sloppily, not even filling out the initial island until pretty late. I expanded well into the new world and had one war with Frederick in South America to secure Aluminum and launch in the late 1800's.
 
This was an interesting game. The map was great and I loved the multiple options presented in the game. Starting on an island but adjacent to all the other civs with a new world in the distance. I decided to go for domination or conquest from the beginning because I knew of the shortened time frame.

I started out peacefully though, putting 4 cities on the main island and 2 each on the three islands to the east and 2 on the mainland. Start was not great for production so that was a focus and I ended up with several ok production cities. I tried to get ahead of the other civs with lots of cottages and only 2 wonders (the great lighthouse and the great library) With this starting location and all the coast the GL was key and I was ahead of everyone in tech by the middle ages with Pericles the only one very close. I focused tech solely on using liberalism to get rifling and was able to pull it off.

Pericles, Ham, Jao and Genghis were all Hindu and Frederick and Peter were Buddhist. Though Hindu Genghis was not well liked and was rather small losing some cities in earlier continental wars. Once I go I chose to attack Genghis first. I took his capitol and 2 other cities and he went down quick. Unfortunately one turn after I declared war I got the stop was against Genghis AP resolution which I defied giving me a healthy dose of unhappiness in about a third of my cities. The next turn he was my vassal. It seemed to take forever for another AP vote and I sat with the unhappiness bonus for a long time.

I next moved on peter, using galleons to land on his western coast and take out his core. I made the mistake of razing a couple of his cities that were on my easternmost island. This led him to become a vassal of Fredrick, who was the largest Civ at the time and made for a long drawn out war. I took one of Frederick’s cities gave it back to him for peace. Then researched up to assembly line and declared on Fredrick and peter with infantry. At this point Peter and Fredrick had knights, longbows and the occasional Musket, though Fredrick’s large stacks backed by Trebuchets were dangerous for invaded cities I was able to take care of them and cut him down to size that I was able to vassalize both of them. The last three civs were much easier as I now was large enough that they would vassalize after I captured a couple of cities and the toughest troops I saw were grenadiers. Pericles did spring off an American vassal in the new world which I had to send some troops over to occupy.

The end result was a conquest win (with only the American civ destroyed) in 1736, score of 28K, which seemed low for the date and style of victory. The key I think was concentrating almost completely on 3 things at different points of the game

1) Early expansions and economic development (lots of cities and GL)
2) Focus on tech to gain rifling and then Assembly Line
3) Focus on military production, taking advantage of a huge advantage in one type of unit.
 
At this point Peter and Fredrick had knights, longbows and the occasional Musket, though Fredrick’s large stacks backed by Trebuchets were dangerous for invaded cities I was able to take care of them and cut him down to size that I was able to vassalize both of them.

My war skills are poor and this is exactly the situation I struggled with in BOTM07. I took a stack of cannons and infantry against Korean knights - about 10 cannon and 12 infantry IIRC. I walked into the first city with hardly a scratch, and moved out next to the second. I wasn't too worried when I saw trebs and knights approaching as I though my superior quality troops would hold them off.

In reality the 4-strength trebs decimated my 20-strength infantry through collateral damage and the knights made short work of my cannons. The next round I deleted the infantry units rather than gift the enemy the promotions.

My first thought was that my tech advantage was irrelevant. I could have taken the city with trebs and macemen just as easily. Likewise when attacked there was no benefit from stronger or promoted units against seige weapons. In fact I would have been better taking fresh units rather than veterans - the XP earned would have enabled them to heal after the first round of defence.

Is there a defence against seige weapons?
Or are my stacks just too small (typically 10/15 seige/troops)?
Or do I accept than I will lose the stack and make sure I have a couple more waiting behind?

nokem
 
IMO the key against trebs is not to let them catch you in a city. As you said, they to quickly grind down even vastly supior units. I lost 2 infrantry to 4 trebs and a couple of mace at one point in the game. Fredricks Trebs were almost all city raider 2. I had to vacate one of his cities completely because his stack was just to big. The city was coastal so I was able to use 2 galleons to move the garrision to an adjacent city and fredirick then made the mistake of splitting his force, letting me take out the xbows and maces he had with his trebuchets and finaly forcing him back into the city and taking out the stack. His other large stack with attacking genghis and after he took one city i was able to stop him by planting 4-5 infrantry between the city he had caputred and the next city and picking apart his units as they tried to move to genghis's next city.

I was using stacks of 9-12 total 3-4 galleons with 2/3 infantry, the rest siege. I was also supporting bombarbment with a healthy number of frigates for coastal cities.

I think that if you have a big tech anvantage in your infrantry, it is more beneficial to have you stack adjacent to the city rather than in it. A knight iun your stack can be good for this as it can kill the last defender then leave, letting the computer reoccupy the city so you can kill more.
 
I used this game to learn more about BtS such as the later stage of the tech path and the concept of colonies. I settled a lot of cities on the other continent and liberated them. This denied the AI land to expand, and enabled me to get resources very cheep. But I noticed that I could not improve the land of my ally, so that should be done before the liberation.

Diplomatic Victory 1580AD (Challenger)

...I took a stack of cannons and infantry against Korean knights - about 10 cannon and 12 infantry IIRC... In reality the 4-strength trebs decimated my 20-strength infantry through collateral damage and the knights made short work of my cannons. The next round I deleted the infantry units rather than gift the enemy the promotions.
...
Is there a defence against seige weapons?
Or are my stacks just too small (typically 10/15 seige/troops)?
Or do I accept than I will lose the stack and make sure I have a couple more waiting behind?

Your stack is not too small, it's too big. You should place the infantry in stacks of three to avoid collateral damage, and accept a few losses. But the main error is most probably that you attack and then move your troops into enemy territory too early. It's better to declare and wait a few turns for the enemy to move his stack to you, so that you can kill it with your cannons + inf.

The kill-lost ratio when fighting with lots of superior units in the open is up to 10:1.You will only reach this ratio if you control the war, which means that you have to predict the behavior of the AI.
 
I went for a peaceful diplomatic game. As I managed to get a tech lead (including Astro) while beelining for Mass Media, I was able to settle as many cities as I wanted in the beautifully crafted New World (:goodjob: on map editing, DS!).

Thing is, I didn't bother to settle/capture many, just a few ones (mainly in Central America to grab as many resources as possible, to help me with happy/health issues and to trade around for the diplo bonuses). I did some research on the strategy forums about BTS colonies but I found out that the answer for an overseas empire is not forming colonies: it is running State Property (well, in this game at least).

The diplomatic environment was the easiest part. Besides the trading bonus and the right civics (I never adopted a religion, even if almost all my cities were christian), Genghis was everyone's worst enemy, so fighting him in a (mostly) phony war did the trick for a 14xx UN victory.
 
The end result was a conquest win (with only the American civ destroyed) in 1736, score of 28K, which seemed low for the date and style of victory. The key I think was concentrating almost completely on 3 things at different points of the game

I got a 1736AD conquest victory too!

It was a pain to have to conquer colonies in addition to getting the starting civs to capitulate.
 
Blimey!!!! - I got a win.:D - Can I just repeat that. - I won.:D:D:D

- After a year of submitting losses to the XOTM games...I've finally won one. - I think that Noble ring map GOTM was the last time I won anything.

Cultural victory in 1896.

Was this really an Emperor level game??

The end date caused me a bit of a panic when the 100 year warning popped up. I worked out that Paris and Lyon would achieve legendary status without much difficulty. - The problem was Orleans...This was my third city on the west end of the starting island. - I was culture bombing with Great Artists from the other 2 cities and building the big multiplier buildings in this city....In the end I needed 1 more Great Artist to bomb to victory...But I got a Prophet *?*^£!. - OK there was still time....next Great Person...Another Prophet...ARRRGHH. - This cannot be. - My cities were loaded with Artist specialists yet producing GP's...The curse of having a contaminated gene pool.

Anyway 14 years before the end of time and I got the artist I needed and Orleans gave me the third legendary city. - Phew!! that was close.


Enjoyed this game, enjoyed the map, delighted to be able to talk about a winning game for once. - Perhaps all these months of reading about other people's tactics have started to pay off.
 
Just trottled along, researching, kept tech lead, got the circumnavigation bonus and hit mass media a bit on the late side (around 1480 AD).

At this point, I ofcourse had missed out on any GE from Pyramids (+ Hanging Gardens) due to a dilluted gene pool in Paris (oops). I also had neglected to settle the other continent (or do much there at all except navigate around the landmass). In part this was due to no army, in part because I couldn't be bothered. I guess I should pay more attention and try things out on my first BTS game, but I'll have to replay and try different things, I guess.

I had a spare Merchant (who really should've been a GE) floating around, so I started a golden age, switched to Universal Suffrage and saved up some money. This gave me a 1580 build of the UN.

My neglecting expanding meant I was a wee bit on the short side of a diplo win (oh about 50 pop points or so :)), but I figured I could manage soon enough. Well... I did.. only it took the better part of 200 years, after spending 3-4 rounds of elections short about 10-15 pop points. So I finally needed to build an army to get there and get the last population points by force.

So a less than spectacluar 1750 Diplo win, that I really never was threatened for and should have gotten much earlier, but there's allways next time, I guess :)

Great game, and good fun, though.

Cheers!
 
At about 1200AD I noted the website revelation of a 500-turn limit, which was a bit of a blow to my (so-called) strategy of late Culture victory. Taking stock, the numbers didn’t seem to add up to a 1910 victory:- I might have squeezed a couple of extra cities within my borders but it was taking ages to assemble all the necessary buildings whilst at the same time I was neglecting my military and science (this is why I normally steer away from Culture:- no real fallback strategy if an AI such as GK sets his sights on you). I was pinning my hopes on establishing Sushi asap, but unfortunately I was having no luck in popping the requisite GM from GPP. Nevertheless, I seemed well set for Liberalism (then taking Economics for a GM) but was pipped at the post from nowhere by Joao (1140 AD). I was the only Civ with banking so I still thought Econ was mine, only to again be beaten by Joao (who must have used GMs to rush it, as I still had the Banking hegemony a couple of turns previously:- didn’t realise the AI was that smart! :blush:).
It was now obvious even to me that culture wasn’t going to cut it by 1910. I started to build up my military and created some extra space by taking GK down a peg or two, although my clear up of the E Islands was somewhat wasted as GK and Fred repopulated with new settlers before mine arrived (I burned the original GK cities which were in daft locations). I circumnavigated (1210 AD) and eventually established a good presence in the N part of the New World:- 4 good cities. A second war with GK ended up with his capitulation. I was still very popular with the other AI and a Diplo approach seemed my best opportunity for victory. I was first to Mass Media and immediately set my Moai/IronWorks city onto the UN. To my immense frustration, Pericles nipped in at the last moment (with GE I guess) to snatch it from me. He also completed R&R, Hollywood, Broadway AND Eiffel Tower in short order. Fred then flexed his military might by annexing Joao and leaving an impressive SoD at my S border (buffered by GK). Pericles took the UN vote from Fred (who I was now just behind in the pecking order) and I was left fuming :mad:.
The game was now very tight between myself, Fred, Peter and Pericles. I needed more land and people to get myself elected to the UN or, if necessary, ensure a time victory. I decided against a large-scale assault on the New World (which was now pebble-dashed with cities including conclaves from three new colony Civs) because I needed a strong homeland military and my existing colonial costs were already considerable. This left Pericles as the obvious target, as he had juicy land and cities combined with a feeble army and was also now targeting a Culture victory of his own.. Never one for the easy option, I reasoned that I needed to take out Fred’s SoD before adventuring elsewhere. I DoW on Fred, allowed him to advance and capture GKs buffer cities before letting loose my assault troops. This removed Fred as an immediate military threat and I gained 6 new cities (3 from marine assaults in the NE islands and 3 (re)captured from GK lands). In the interim, Pericles completed the Manhattan Project (hhmmm, I don’t have uranium) then voted through a Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (phew!). I was now ready to conquer the helpless Pericles and grab the UN, but this didn’t quite go to plan. A Nuclear Civ World was new territory for me and, naively, I assumed the UN treaty banned nukes entirely (although in hindsight it is fairly obvious that it doesn’t prevent you lobbing those you already have at your enemy). I DoW on Pericles, the screen shakes 1, 2 even 3 times and I’ve been nuked!! :nuke: Horrified, I quickly inspect the damage but it is surprisingly light:- a few glowing squares, a border city lacking half its population and all the ten or so units I’m sure were there the previous turn. Pericles lacks the military to back up this opening salvo and I quickly recover to capture his three N cities and close upon his core cities. He offers capitulation before I reach any of these …… I ponder my decision, worried that he will capitulate elsewhere if I refuse. On the basis that (a) he can’t get a Culture victory by 1910 and (b) I seem to have enough pop for UN election anyway, I accept him into the French camp and feel confident of final victory. The game now took another unexpected turn:- Pericles puny colonial vassal made a UDI and then apparently persuaded Peter (my bosom buddy for centuries) to take him under his wing, precipitating war between us. The screen shakes again!! :nuke: Another 3 nukes were lobbed in my general direction, but again with surprisingly limited effect. This DoW was potentially a game-breaker:- Peter had by far the largest military power (about twice mine) and the strongest colonial vassal who bordered my New World territories. I had the advantage of Advanced Flight whereas he had Robotics:- I anticipated a really meaty Modern War. As it turned out, the AI kamikaze approach of rolling vast numbers of largely unsupported tanks over my borders quickly turned into a massacre:- my jets cleared the skies, bombers softened up the targets and gunships plus cleanup tanks did the rest. Kill ratios were 52 : 3 for armour and 88 : 18 for aircraft. Peter sued for peace with a few turns left, but only a Time Victory was possible by then. I had eventually generated a GM and sowed Sushi (and Civ Jewellers) to all my cities, giving a small points cushion for an eventual Time victory. A somewhat disappointing end after such a strong start, but some very interesting new experiences (especially of the nuclear variety) along the way.

Many thanks to DS and the GOTM staff for the great map, although (like a few others) I found both the changed leaders and the various green shades a bit confusing. I have no problem with the concept of mixing leader traits, but the switching of historical leaders to different Civs gave me serious headaches. When I see GK, I expect Karakorum and Keshiks; with Peter, Moscow and Cossacks!

Ooops ! Apologies for the lengthy post; got a bit carried away with my Apocalypse stories.
 
jesusin, contender. Goal: mixed feelings of militar glory. Result: very late domination with puny score.

What a gruesome horrible thing I made out of this nice game!
My main problem was being too fond of building (helped by the unlucky exploration who seemed to indicate I was isolated). At 500AD, with 11 cities, some of them too new to be useful yet, I hadn't even started considering war.

I planned for Musketeers under Nationalism for a quick army buildup and for a speed deployement (or maybe it was just a way to cheat myself and allow me to keep building Universities for Oxford instead of troops and anti-AP missionaries).

In 870AD I had Liber+Natio+GunP and dowed Feud-less Genghis. Also started a GAge that turn to revolt into the AP religion first, then FR+Nationhood. From then on, I drafted 3 untis per turn. Starting in different cities, in order for every city to be washing drafting unhappiness away.

I took him as a vassal as sson as I could, lest he should vassalize to Hamm, who was also at war with him. Musk against archers was quite easy.

In my next war (Pericles, ironless, longbowed, 1020AS-1240AD) I found me very short of Cats. Left him living in OCC, not my vassal in order to finish him later.

Here I made my worst mistake: my mismanagent of palaces. The colonial expenses were killing me, and I wasn't wise enough to move my palace, causing only 2 cities to get colonial expenses and relieving dozens of them... The use of the FP in the mainland was another mistake, it should have been saved for the newworld.

So I got to rifling and my economy tanked. What's the use of Academies and Oxford when you run 0% science for the rest of the game. I was on the red for the rest of the game even at 100 gold. Some of the cities in the new world were costing me 60gpt!!! Yet I kept taking barb cities there.

Next in line was Hamm, whose cities but an island I took in 10 turns. But it wasn't quick enough, he had time to vassalize to Fred, the monster that had some 30 cities that I found myself in war against. After he took 1 city (with Palace almost finished there, arggg) I killed his 25 units stack and started advancing. I was in a rush, cause he was researching Chemics and I though Grenadiers came with it. When I realised he could not built them and I got to Rifling, everything went smoothly. He kept being 10turns away from MilSci for more than 30 turns. Now I had too many Trebs that I didn't need, since it was more efficint to attck with Cavalry directly against the city walls. Anyway, reducing 125% defenses at a pace of 4% a Treb is not acceptable.

A terrible misclick gave Fred peace for free when he was ready to capitulate and gift me a city! I suck.

Dowed Joao and found my units losing 15% strengh every turn due to his airships. There was nothing I could do against them, but taking his cities, so I did. Defied a city gifting resolution and redowed Fred when allowed... that put me with 40 unhappy faces per city, so every city would work just the central tile, nothing else. Not that I cared too much, since my constant whipping and drafting had left me with cities no bigger than size 6...

I almost-killed everyone but Peter and won a Domination victory, delaying it a few turns to win a bit of pop before the end, so as not to get a shot neither for a fast finish nor for Gold. The fact that I didn't need the tiles given by 2 culture bombs and that I launched a GAge 1 turn before the end doesn't say much about my GP management.

Good things I learned:

- Airships rock.
- When someone liberates his colonies, a new leader appears and the domination land limit is reduced by 2%. Would it be wise to set up two cities on the pole only to liberate them and thus reduce the land needed?
- Musketeers agaisnt archers or cavalry against lbs don't require CAts/Trebs at all.
- I used spies! Yes, I did! I took down the cultural defenses of a couple of cities with the revolt mission.
- Sistine's doesn't really help in a domination victory. I wasn't running a religion, and even if I were, I hadn't built tempels nor monasteries enoguh for the +5pt to have any relevance. The +2cpt for specialists was nice for popping borders in new cities, but building culture would have worked just the same. I should have build 10 swords instead of a Sistine's.
- Nationalism rocks in the offensive too.


Things I could have done:

- Globe theatre for constant drafting city.
- Moai. They are so expensive that I can't believe they pay off in a reasonable amount of time, unless you are going for Space.

Need to keep on learning more BTS features...
 
Looks like I was the only one who lost this. I suffered a "Reach 500 Turns and the Game Stops" Loss in 1910 AD. So I will claim that I was about to win in 1912 AD, even though that would be a complete lie. I did not ever settle beyond the original island because Emperor level is too hard for me.
 
I think I have done every screw up in this game but nothing will compaired to this. I managed to get to the new world and founded and captured bunch of cities and was building the capital in South America. With a few turns to finish {EDIT: the palace not the game}and very late at night, I saved the game and exited to the "WINDOWS". Dialogue box asked if I am sure and I said yes. The game retired instead :cry:. I just turned everything off and went to bed.

I think I need to take myself out and kick my own ass.

Anyways it was fun to figure out the map very early and only build minimal cities and speed through the techs to get astro. Missed Lib by two turns to Fred (?). Was heading for cannons to get rid of old buddy Kahn. The war he DOWed at the end of the first write up messed up my colony plans for the large island to east.

BTW, I got screwd by the AP resolution that tried to help me by agreeing to "stop the war against the member DeGaul". My forces were about to take one of Kahns Cities on Iron. I did not want any help.:mad: Oh well no submittal this time (did not save after the retirement) and on to Immortal game.
 
Well, RL robbed me of my time to finish this off as a cow quest (sorry MarkM), and left me scrambling to see if I could rush a cultural with just a few hours left. The answer was no ... had to retire with 10 minutes left to deadline (or so I thought) to submit for a few score points ...

Then I realized that one hour left means one hour plus, not less than one hour ... but playing on to see if I could have eeked out the win, war was declared on me about 10 turns later, and not much chance I would survive that anyway (at which time some sleep was in order).

dV
 
Well, RL robbed me of my time to finish this off as a cow quest (sorry MarkM), and left me scrambling to see if I could rush a cultural with just a few hours left. The answer was no ... had to retire with 10 minutes left to deadline (or so I thought) to submit for a few score points ...

Then I realized that one hour left means one hour plus, not less than one hour ... but playing on to see if I could have eeked out the win, war was declared on me about 10 turns later, and not much chance I would survive that anyway (at which time some sleep was in order).

dV
Hey dV, well you actually made me feel much better :) I felt like a bit of a douche agreeing to the cow quest & then not being able to finish it myself either. I feared I'd fall short because I was out of town for work last week. Though I did play some last night, I wasn't close enough & had to throw in the towel. I didn't even bother to submit. It's too bad because I did have a win in the bag, I just need to play out the last eighty turns, I had tech & score leads and had just finished taking over most of the new world, the scores/minimap in 1826:
Spoiler :
attachment.php
If you look at the mini map you'll see some hints of my probably very unorthodox strategy -- I'd not even conquered anyone else until the 1800s, but I was way, way in the lead by then anyway, by basically just being a builder -- which proves it's possible to do this and win at emperor level. I hardly fought any wars until just the prior couple dozen turns. In fact I didn't even get my first city on the main continent until 1812, when I did a blitzkrieg to finally take out Genghis all in one go over (man that war weariness was short-lived but ugly, even with jails and mt rushmore). Instead my entire strategy consisted of settling just islands, avoiding wars (or using the Apostolic Palace to get me out of them unscathed if I could not), then getting naval advantage to get caravels/circumnavigate first & most importantly privateers ASAP when I found the "New World." I prowled the seas with those, getting multiple great generals & up to 40-50 experience on a couple by sinking almost every galleon that tried to settle New World (about 50 galleons!) This left most of New World to me alone to settle/conquer barb cities. I even moved my capital over there in order to escape the crushing colonial expenses, so ironically my home island became my colony. A nice bonus came when Peter declared on me in later 1700s just as I was finishing my colonization. Peter was my main competition in New Word (probably because his sea route was furthest away for my privateers), but I made quick work of the the 5-6 cities he had in New World (I probably had 15-20 there by then, including heroic epic which I'd never had reason to build earlier), and then to my delight discovered that Peter was willing to capitulate to me even though I had never even fought a single battle with him on his main territory, just in the New World. You can see in the screenshot above that he was my vassal by then.

The thing I am most proud of in this game though is my wall street/national epic city, Orleans:
Spoiler :
attachment.php
Hopefully you can make out there are 3 religions and two HQs founded there, and also that almost the entire part of the building list that is displayed is all wonders (I actually had to increase game resolution so they all could be seen at once!). Even though the science rate is at 100%, this city is generating 750 gold and 777 culture per turn :) -- with only one cathedral! I carefully managed my early city settlement and religion spread by missionaries to try to force the three religions to end up in that one city and it worked (I got four religions total, the first was in Orleans, the another city, so I spread the Orleans religion to every city, and the other one to every city but Orleans, so it would have fewer religions than any other city. Then I spread the third religion everywhere so it would be true of Orleans again when I found the 4th religion, Islam). Probably why I never settled a city on main continent, I spent a lot of time & delayed expansion trying to make that work ...

This city was pumping out GP like crazy, at the time I left off the game I actually was about to start my fourth golden age. Oh well ... I had a great foundation laid & was already pulling away in score, was just starting to spread sids sushi (for which I had over 30 resources due to trades etc!) + conquer Hammurabi to start a population boom to shoot the score through the roof, but ... I just couldn't find the time to play the last 75 turns in time :(
 
This was an awesome map. Loved the island start, the overseas expansion, the continental wars. The distant promise of a new world.

This has been a busy month for me in RL, so I had to retire in 1500AD, after running out of time to complete before the deadline (and not wanting to run over into my time for BOTM09, which looks awesome). Here's the situation in 1500AD:



I was playing for a conquest fueled domination victory, but actually started by building several of the marble- and gold-based wonders including GL, Temple of Artemis, Parthenon, Mausoleum of Maussollos and of course National Epic and later the Taj Mahal. I think I became a bit adicted to great people, and the BtS +100% :gp: during golden ages is very nice. :)

Anyway, was very happy to see Genghis Khan nearby as he makes a great vassal - high unit train %, low WFYABTA limit etc. Vassalized him in 1430AD after taking 6 of his mainland cities (and raising one on one of the nearby islands) and have taken my second city from Pericles, where I have a small tech and resource advantage (cavalary, rifles + cannon v. Pericles' rifles and trebs).

Thanks DynamicSpirit for the map. This was a great setup and I enjoyed this game a lot. It's a shame I didn't have enough RL time to finish it.

Oh well - on to BOTM09. Immortal - can't wait! :goodjob:
 
Right up front I want to say this was a great map. Many, many paths were possible. Despite the culture advantages offered, I chose to try a domination game simply because I have been getting a little tired of the tedium of building missionaries, spreading religions, building temples etc etc. Here's how it went:
- Oracle slingshot to Civ Service
- eliminated Genghis with maces (he wouldn't capitulate until down to one city left, and it was too strong culturally to allow neighboring cities to work, so he had to go completely)
- I had the same problem with Pericles. He would capitulate early but his cultural spread was too great so I left him with only 2 cities when he capped, which is all he had for the rest of the game.
- by this time I saw how big this map actually was so I decided the only way to keep the economy going was with communism and state property, which I think is the key to making this whole map work.
- it also became clear that I need to get the +1 water movement so I sent out a caravel.

The a very interesting thing happened, Fred declared on Joao, who soon asked me for help. I joined the war against Fred and bribed Peter to join as well. I took a couple of cities and Joao asked me to protect him and be my vassal! Very lucky turn I thought. I didn't even know this could happen.
By this time it seemed my population was outrunning my land percentage so I went back to slavery and once I had rifling and airships it was only a matter of time till Fred was toast. I gave 3 groups of islands with only 2 cities their freedom, which reduced the winning land percentage needed from 64 to 58 and in 1718 Fred capitulated giving me the domination victory.

2 points learned:
- lowering the bar by freeing islands with 2 cities really helps for an earlier win
- defending a friend can make him a voluntary vassal

Thanks DynamicSpirit for a great game!
 
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