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BOTM 10 Final Spoiler - Game Submitted

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by DynamicSpirit, Oct 6, 2008.

  1. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    BOTM 10 Final Spoiler



    Reading Requirements

    Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 10, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless
    • You have submitted your entry


    Posting Restrictions

    • Please do not reveal locations of modern resources (coal and later)
     
  2. srad

    srad King

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2007
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    Location:
    Heidelberg, Germany
    This game was tough for me but I think Mansa had reaaal problems. Something like this must be going on in his brain: "Ok, I'm tech leader, so let's go to space. But wait, with my army I can just conquer the whole world. Hmmm, but I'm Mansa and I don't attack anyone and ooooops my third city has become legendary!".

    This was in 18xx, do not remember exactly. My problem was, I didn't know how to win. My theching was too slow to beat Mansa, my army too weak to attack him (ok, I thought that and didn't tried it) and Washington was also strong like hell. He had JC and Gengis as vassals, so he was the winner of all this wars going on. But no one dares to attack Mansa, so I couldn't bribe someone into a war with him.

    Things I could have done better:

    - Diplomacy: Everyone was cautious towards me, I should have licked the boots of Washington more :).
    - FE/SE Economy and not CE. CE is too weak on this level. Too less great scientists and too low production with CE.
    - Head for a diplomatic victory? (But I really never did this so I have no experience in this VS)

    Nevertheless, thank you DS for this map layout and so a chance to win on deity!
     
  3. blastoidstalker

    blastoidstalker The Geographer

    Joined:
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    529
    Well, I lost this one to Mansa in 1826 to a cultural Victory. I was proud that I made it to the end, built the UN, had a vote for diplomatic victory, which did not come through and was the second most populous nation at the end despite bieng one of thre smallest. I never lost a city

    I am frustrated that I did not win though, because I had a chance. My mistake was not adjusting to early events to change my goal for winning the game. in 2800 BC a barb city was founded in the sweet spot just east of my capitol, it was taken by ceasers praets in 2360o BC and his large army there scared the living @@@@ out of me. Washington soon buiult a city just north of this and cut me off from eastward expansion. I could have got one city squezzed in there, but i though doing so would have made me toast later on and the target of war to early.
    So instead I expanded westward, just taking the good commerece spots on the the long arc of land all the way to where it became a frozen wastland. At this pont I still though that I would win the game by domination, as war is where I think I can best beat the AI, take advantage of its tactical mistakes and beelining rifling (which worked well at emporer). But the Praets on my boarder kept me from having this oppurtinity early. I also missed out on copper (causing me to beeline iron) and some prime spots, giving me a more spread out (i.e. expensive) and less production based empire. I stayed with the AI in tech the whole game but mansa and Wan Kon eventualy got ahead of me.
    I decided then to switch to diplo for a win. I had a problem though. the map was a classic two side situation, Ceaser and Khmer on one side Mansa and washington on the other and two weaklings in Ghengis and Wan Kon. Unfortuantly they were slow clkose in power and pop it was tough to tell who would come out on top. And the side who could most easily eliminate me (caeser and Khmer) were Buddhist which was the one religion that did not spread to my boarders till the 1600's. This forced me to play the between game for two long, and as the sides constantly warred, I constantly picked up negative diplomatic modifiers that coast me in the end.

    eventualy in the 1600's I got buddhism, was able to pick my side, with Caesar and the Khmer. At this time Caesar leapfrogfged over washington in Population, forcing me to bribde washington to get open borders so i could supply him with sushi and give him biology and medicine. This acutaly worked and washington again became highest pop and I got control of my UN. At this point I though I could win, when Genghis broke away from being washingtons vassal, got declared on by most of the world and became Caesars vassel, eliminated the targed I needed for the commen war and some more population. Mansa then thankfully ended the game, not allowing me to create another half baked plan to get the votes I needed.
     
  4. MarkM

    MarkM Cow Herder

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    Well, what a tease this game was. Most of the game I thought I had no shot, but I kept playing the angles & then just when I thought I'd half a shot to pull it out after all, bang I lose to JC on a UN vote by FIVE votes :cry:

    JC'd vassalized everyone but me and Mansa (with whom I had grown pretty tight with and was angling to get on my side to take him on -- they'd already fought one war already). It was just a freak of timing JC had the votes -- he'd just finished a war where he'd captured a lot of Washington's cities which were just beginning to come out of anarchy and starve away population, while meanwhile I'd just gotten biology and Sid's Sushi & my population was taking off. But the vote came at just the right time, though I was #2 in pop and MM #3 our combined votes fell five votes shy of blocking JC.

    I probably would not have won anyway, but I can always dream! Certainly got a lot further than I ever thought I would in a deity game, even though I made a lot of critical mistakes in hindsight (I'm expecting a number of people will win this one). Although he had MASSIVE stacks in the field against Washington (on had 79 cavalry and 29 artillery, plus maybe 20 infantry), I had a 4-5 tech lead on him, including flight, and was 4 turns away from Industrialism, while he did not even have electricity yet. My best case scenario was to bribe Mansa Musa into doing a DoW on him (he was +10 with me and -6 with JC, and I'd clawed my way back into the tech race enough that I actually had techs MM didn't have), but if my fears that MM could not be pushed into war proved true, my economy could generate either 1900 science or 1300 gold per turn plus a half dozen good production cities, so I was thinking I could possibly build enough tanks to cut down his army to size by luring him into my territory & swallow his units up with retreating tank on cavalry battles.

    Maybe it's best that it ended before the endgame really started though, it would have taken me all next weekend to try to pull this one out (and then it still wouldn't have worked, MM would probably launch or something LOL). There were certainly plenty of other things that went wrong -- or I plain just did wrong -- but I doubt the gory details would be of that much interest.

    Thanks for the fun game DS! Learned the most I'd learned from an xOTM in a long time, and looking forward to learning many times more from other final spoilers. Small cropped screenshots of final scores and maps attached for heck of it.
     

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  5. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    I surpassed all of my relatively modest goals for this game, already by the 500AD spoiler! At that point I was far behind in tech and power, and simply hoped to survive by diplomacy.

    I had taken 4 barb cities in the west and settled two more there. I had only settled one city east of capitol. Mongols became vassal to Rome fairly quickly, and my having joined Romes war (in spirit), Ghengis was quite irate at me. At least as a vassal he can't act on that... but it seems as though his hatred of me affected Rome's attitude to me despite having good relations with Rome. Is attitude an average or something when there are vassals?

    Anyhow, I did everything to get on Rome's good side. I used a spy to convert him to my civics, for example... but that only lasted about 10-20 turns. Otherwise, I used spies against Washington who was learning to dislike me since Rome was his worst enemy. I managed to steal HBR in about 1500AD (already obsolete). Otherwise, I kept stealing his treasury, which kept my research rates high. So high, that by the 1500AD's I was matching the AI rates and even almost matched Rome and the other warring nations in tech. Rome had taken most of Washingtons best cities, but had reached stalemate near Washington and started losing them to cultural pressure. Meanwhile, I ended up taking two Roman cities with American names by culture! Yeehaa - conquering by culture.:dance: Wang Kong takes advantage of Rome's bridge-too-far escapade, and DOW's him and starts rolling up Mongol and Roman cities (as far as Antium). Suvreyaman was alsmost a non-factor in this game, despite being ahead of me in score.

    Live by the sword... die by the sword. Meanwhile, in the west, my furthest south city (Uzbek) which has my FP and Hermitage and two cathedrals and every culture building I can build while running as many artists as possible and building only culture... revolts to Mali (again and again while losing population until finally they become Malinese). Unbelievable culture pressure from Mali... and the closest Mali cities were not even his legendary cities!:cry: Never had time to rebuild an FP nor Hermitage (nor had time to lose 2 more cities to Mali by culture -- but almost).

    Well... it was a good learning experience and I did a lot better than I expected. I think if we play enough deity games like this one, I can actually entertain thoughts of some day winning one of them. Certainly don't need to quake with fear at the thought of playing this level anymore. Its quite possible to keep up in the mid-game, and if you don't give up too much ground early on leaves you with good chance at victory. I didn't do that, though.:sad:

    I finished ahead of Ghengis and Washington and even Rome. I was too timid with war, but my hopelessly backwards military tech made that probably the wisest survival strategy in this game. But next time I would do things differently :sniper:
     
  6. kowalski37

    kowalski37 Chieftain

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    I normally struggle to win on anything past Warlord difficulty level, so simple staying alive was my goal here. I managed to capture 2 Barb cities and found 4 more including my capital. My only real achievement was being the only player not attacked by Caeser, who won in 1806 with a diplomatic victory. By the end he had everyone minus myself and Wang Kon as vassels. I switched to Buddism along with Caeser early on and then switched to Hinduism as soon as my neighbour Washington did. Then just as Washington was invaded by Caeser I switched to no state religion. I enjoyed playing the game even though I was hopeless and look forward to playing more higher level games.
     
  7. blastoidstalker

    blastoidstalker The Geographer

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    caesar had the honor in my game of declaring war at some point with every other civ in the game, including his friend with a +7 rating
     
  8. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    My end game was very exciting, unfortunately by that stage I was down to 2 cities, 1 being Aachen, the other being up in the northern icecaps, courtesy of an attack by Wang on the home peninsular and Julius on the other one.

    However, Sury, clear point leader, and seemingly destined for Space, had his victory stolen by little old Mansa Musa's incredibly cultured cities. In fact, if not for someone sabotaging Sury's Docking Bay, he would've launched 4 or 5 turns earlier and probably won.

    Ironically, my best friend in the game was, by far, Genghis. Until he voluntarily vassalised to Sury, I'd made a number of trades with him and was keeping parity with him, excluding his army. Unfortunately, once he did vassalise himself, Sury gifted him way ahead of me and I was back to being a loner unable to trade with anyone.
     
  9. MarkM

    MarkM Cow Herder

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    Yeah mine too -- everyone except me. I was careful to stay on his good side as much as possible, and gave into almost every demand he ever made of me (including entering wars against GK and Sury). I actually got him all the way to friendly with me for a brief period :assimilate:

    One of few JC demands I refused was to go to war against Washington towards the end of my game, in the 1700s. I'd actually hoped that they would knock each other out a bit and leave an opening for me to exploit, JC had massive stacks of doom, but Washington had tech advantage (including flight), but the "JC as Russians vs Washington as Germans" scenario I hoped for didn't pan out, JC just rolled over Washington. In the end I did join in that war too, but only when it became clear Washington was going to lose & get vassalized & I better destroy as much of his infrastructure (pillage! pillage! pillage!) and grab what territory I could before it happened. More of a defensive action than a major exploitation.
     
  10. Nioco

    Nioco Chieftain

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    Cheesy victory but victory nevertheless :p

    My very first win as a religious victory and of course my very first win as deity (last BOTM was my first win as immortal :crazyeye:)

    The map was generous, and I did rather well tech wise and of course diplomatically. Washington (my main ally for this victory) went from friendly to pleased a few turn before the next AP vote...I had to research fast liberalism to switch to free speech to made him friendly again.

    Gave him astronomy for free, made defensive pact...no war ever in this game.

    Got 8 towns at the end almost all running hybrid economy with most building made from the whip. Was running 90% science at the end thanks to all trade route and ofc rathaus.

    Thanks for this nice game...It may be my last as after like 2 years playing mainly this game I would never thought to win a deity game with GOTM rules and I feel like having made the most of this beautiful game. I learnt a lot from all crazy players among you and am still amazed by some games descriptions in this very BOTM....Out of my skills though :)

    Keep all the good spirit of this community :goodjob:
     

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  11. MarkM

    MarkM Cow Herder

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    Congrats Nioco! There is no such thing as a "cheesy" victory at deity IMO. Hope we see you back sometime. I think I know how you feel, I would like to "go out on top" too. Alas I'm not even good enough player for making "cheese" :(
     
  12. Cabledawg

    Cabledawg King

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    Chesapeake, VA
    I thought I played this game very well. Except for 1 sizeable mistake. After settling the western peninsula, I had a fair number of cities, good tech rate and friends with everyone. I bribed a more advanced Sury in a war against a more powerful, but behind in tech Rome. They stayed at war for a very long time. When the dust had settled. I was further ahead in tech, but Sury had vassalized everyone except Mansa and Ghengis.

    I made it to the Internet first and I knew I had Space locked up....that is until someone built the UN....yup...Sury won the game. Mycenian was a city I captured from the barbs 1 turn before Rome would have taken it....It turned into my Ironworks. You can see it in the pic building Apollo.



    I played it out to see if I would of launched.



    My mistake was allowing Sury to keep on warring. I could have stopped it allmost anytime....but I really thought it was a good thing.
     

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  13. civ_steve

    civ_steve Deity Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

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    formerly Santa Clarita, California
    I'm still too much of a Civ3 player, so I forget a few "details", like you still need Rifling to build Cavalry even if you have just learned MilTrad! :rolleyes:

    I managed to learn Nationalism (3rd to learn) and trade for a tech or two and lots of money to keep the reseach going. Music next, and then on to MilTrad; building lots of HA's and Chariots for upgrade. Rome and Korea (vassalized to Rome) had been at war with Genghis and Sury forever; MM was at war, then peace, then war with Genghis. MM asked me to join in war with Genghis, and I thought that was pretty safe so I agreed. No problem. Then, with 2 turns left to learn MilTrad, Korea asked me to ally vs the Khmer. Sury had captured that pesky Barbarian city on the nice resource spot just to the East of the starting location (of all people! He was in the right place at the right time). I wanted the location so I agreed and the SOD from that city was impressive! So I learned MilTrad, traded for about 8 Techs and lots of Cash, and of course I couldn't upgrade so Aachen fell. Submitted as incomplete in 1300 AD.

    Some funny things. Korea, even though a vassal of Rome was far advanced of Rome in Tech. America, Korea and MM had the greatest Tech lead, and I think America, never in a war, was the leader. Learned a lot (thanks for the great spoilers!), and looking forward to the next Deity game.
     
  14. kcd_swede

    kcd_swede Jag är Viking!½ GOTM Staff

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    :goodjob: Congratulations!
     
  15. Gosha190

    Gosha190 King

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    I can say the same words about me :)

    I finished a little earlier - in 20BC. AP was built in 245BC.

    What an exciting game! Each time I pressed "end turn" I did not know what will happen on a next turn. Crazy AI declared wars very often. And early diplomacy was extremely hard for me.

    Great thanx to the Stuff for an outstanding map and for assistance on my technical problem! :goodjob:
     
  16. Nioco

    Nioco Chieftain

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    Hehe a bit !
    Could not achieve that even if I got theology very early as well. Got no city sharing a religion with my neighbours...had to wait like near 400 AD to start AP because of that and then got no way to improve Washington from pleased to friendly except :
    Declaring on JC along Washington (suicide in my game)
    Try to give tech earlier, could have done that before getting astro by lightbulbing Divine right as Washington was way ahead in tech.
     
  17. Gosha190

    Gosha190 King

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    OK, I had similar problems.
    1. MM took all 3 earlier religion and very long time did not spread them among other civs.
    2. Wash randomly cought Hindy (hm... it's interstingly: I intended to type past time from catch and made misprint. But my dictionary tells me that bold word more exact :) ) and accepted Hindy, so I could not accept Christianity for a long time until 5XX BC. And at the same time there was no another common religion with my friends to accept.
    3. I sent free Christ. missionary to JC capital hoping that my religion infected other civs without missionaries. JC was most adequate leader hwo had open borders with all neighbors. But my first religion did not spread independent and I needed to build missionaries to spread it.
    4. I accepted Christianity only afer JC and Wash did that first. Both of them I planned as my friends and body of electors :D
    5. When all civs except MM were in Christianity, I spread Confu.
    6. I converted into Confu 4 turns before AP was finished. And 5 turns later returned into Christianity.
    7. At the end of my game MM waked up and began to spread Hindy! :mad:
    I built some number of missionaries for Wash and asked JC to stop trading with MM.

    It was extremely nervous game from start to end!
     
  18. Morcar

    Morcar Chieftain

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    Well, gongratulations Gosha and Nioco - great playing.

    Finally i've decided to retire from my game. I have stolen a lot of techs from Wash (using three Great spies) and actually was first to discover electr., radio and mass media and have built UN, but that didn't help me - Caesar was just too strong (had 3 vassals), i couldn't win even if all others except for JC would have voted for me. So just unlucky, but a good try though i think;)
     
  19. jesusin

    jesusin Ant GOTM Staff

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    jesusin, contender. Goal: fastest diplo victory. Result: shameful diplo loss to JC.

    I feel distressed about how random a diplo victory is with vassals on.


    After my bad start, I came back into the game and remained the tech leader all game long. I was friend of the budists (JC, Wan, Sur, Gen) and not the hindus (MM, Wash).

    My only problem was that JC was the pop leader and had vassalized Gen and Wan. I had a plan, gift lots of cities to Wash so that he was the pop leader and I would have enough votes for a win even withour pop of my own. I was about to do it in 1450AD, but JC dowed and vassalized both Wash and MM before I could do so. Lost chance.

    At least I was quick enough to build an army, join the fight and bring Sur in. Both me and Sury got a nice city. But it was not enough, with the whole world but Sury and me vassalized JC won in 1525AD.

    I could have delayed things by not finishing the UN, but I was tired of such a long game and interturns were taking half a minute with so many (JC's) units moving around. I had not real option. since vassals always vote for their master and there was no way other was passing JC now.

    At least I have seen and used an artillery unit for the first time. They rock.

    I have enjoyed the game a lot. I have a bad feeling, though, I could have won the game if I had kept my initial goal of a cultural victory.
     
  20. Gosha190

    Gosha190 King

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    It seems that vassals should be "turned OFF" in the game settings. JC looks like a monster on this map in major number of games I hear about.

    I sympathize with you in your sorrow :sad:
     

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