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BOTM 103 - Final Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by Deckhand, Mar 10, 2016.

  1. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    BOTM 103 - Final Spoiler



    So how did your game after 1AD go?

    How many wonders did you build? Did your pursuit of wonders have any adverse consequences?

    Reading Requirements

    Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 103 then you MUST NOT read this thread unless
    • You have submitted your entry

    Posting Restrictions
    • Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.
     
  2. Solyaris

    Solyaris Warlord

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    Can finally add a deity BTS win, nice! Had one vanilla deity win from before (GOTM about a year ago), but have never beaten BTS deity! Gotta say tho, with that amazing start and no barbs, it didnt feel like deity but more like a slightly harder immortal game.

    Early techs where Fishing -> mining -> BW -> masonry -> pottery -> AH
    Did a somewhat unusual starting move by growing to size 6 before whipping my first settler, overflow + chop into 2nd worker and then grow on to stonehenge. My 2nd city was settled to the west, mainly as a blocker city as I saw justinians border to the far west. Thereafter rezzed rest om my penusulvena along with getting some late wonders (stonehenge, the pyramids and a very late TGL, about 800BC or so). Apart from that, all the good wonders (MoM, hanging gardens, ToA) went to the two AI's on the far side of the map, while justinian builded all the crappy once ^^.

    Rest of the game was pretty straight forward. Got ASAP to liberaism and took MT, upgraded already buildt Horse-archers (about 20) and attacked justinian around 500AD. Both Justinian and Egypt was hard and somewhat long wars (as expected on deity), but about 1100AD both where defeated (Egypt had 1 city left and was vassled for happiness). I was originaly aiming for domination, but my momentum and techlead where long gonne, and Germany had a HUGE army (and solid techlead), making another(!) space victory the best choice. With about 50% of the map, my spacevictory was never in japordy, the closest to winning beeing Germany going for Culture (about 50 turns left when I won). The final score was pretty avarage with 274436, 1665 AD, so I doubt it will give me a medall. Still a very enjoyable game=)

    Final thoughts:
    - The great lighthouse was an absolut MONSTER on this map! Probably saved me ~5-10 turnes of my final date (and arguable the game itself). I would rate it way above the pyramids and stonehenge.
    - Forgeting to switch into bouracracy ASAP probably cost me 1-2 turnes of my final date (took a good 15-20 turnes before I remebered to switch)
    - Never had such a good capital @1AD. Total population of 19, working only amazing tiles (mostly riverside cottages).
    - Surrounding land and capital probably was probably too good for a GOTM (even deity)! 4 times food, good production, early commerce and only 3 "bad" tiles (2 grassland tiles and 1 vanilla seatile) along with best starting tile and no barbarians kinda made it too easy
    - I was somewhat lucky not beeing declared war on by justinian. He wasn't pleased before close to 1AD, we shared borders and he had 2 strategic resources (iron and copper). If I understand it correctly, an AI can go into WHEOOH if they share borders and have access to at least 2 units over warrior and archers?
    - First time ever I've buildt stonehenge in my ~50 or so games =)
    - 20 currciers(?) are too little when playing deity. It works on immortal, but I should have waited to decleare war untill I had 25-30 for it to be more effective.
    - Musketers in a hill city with 75% defence will destroy currciers even with 3-4 promotions ;)
    - The Germans will probably be a problem for many going for conquest or domination (AMAZING land and techspeed). Respect to those who manage to eliminate him!
     
  3. yyeah

    yyeah Emperor

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    Thanks to RNG GoD i got my conquest in 1400AD :whew:.
    Triggered DoM in last turn, and i was thinking about giving away cities since i could have done DoM definetly earlier and conq is a harder on this map. But yea i get what i was aiming for.

    Some milestones ... 250AD Astro ~740AD Lib MT, SH, GLH, Colosus (lol),Kremlin (another lol ).
    In my game ais get Alpha around 350BC :eek: that complicated some things...
    I was building Colosus just for failgold but when i saw where ais are i just finished it.
    Couple of turns later i bulbed Astro :lol:.
    However haveing GLH and Colosus in Cap gave me a lot GM points and i get random GM 1 turn befor Rifling so i could upgrade my all Cuirs to Cav.
    Allso i did historical TM for 3100 :gold::crazyeye: didnt knew that is even possible.
    I have nice ss but dont know can i post it ... maybe i will do it later.

    I have 1 more ss what i did with Justinian but i wont write about it you need to see this.

    What else can i say i enjoyed map that much that i even made myself 2 vassals :lol:
    Overall, its not a hard map however fast conquest isnt that ezy as one can think, gotta say. Freddy had Rifling at ~1150 and he reserch it in 2 turns after i took 3 cites so yea that was like :eek:. Its rather sonner then later on deity.

    Lincoln was teching preety good as well and reached Rifling befor i caped him but here (like with Justinian) ive allso made a tactical move.

    I had 3 hes citeis on other continent 2.2 power ratio after i took hes stack, and he didnt want to cap, i allso didnt have any unit to kill... only way, was to attack Washington with 80% def with 4-6 Rifles + something else. I could loose entire stack on this.
    Cannons was on the way and could be there in 3 turns but... i made sth better. :devil:
    I made colony :lol: Saladin untis witch he gets for def was enough to cap Lincoln :smug:.

    Rly fun map thanks for posting.
     
  4. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    I blew it, retired in 325 AD :)

    Opener went 2240 BC Oracle --> Metal Casting, having 3 cities and a whipped settler for the 4th.
    Tech path : Fishing, Mining, BW, Masonry, Meditation, Priesthood, Pottery, Animal Husbandry.

    Unfortunately, I settled city 2 north, by the marble, and lost the gold spot for city 3, to the west, by 2 turns, to Justinian.

    So, from a rather strong 4 cities at 2000 BC configuration, I went into an Axeman build-up to invade the Byzantines.
    Justinian hooked up metal shortly before I DoWed in 1280 BC.

    Capturing the first city was easy and I should maybe have settled for peace immediately after (teching up to macemen). However, I went deeper into his territory and...
    ... I underestimated Justinian's unit spam capabilities.
    Couldn't capture his holy-hilly Buddhist city, so I went around for a tundra junker and his capitol. Took a quick cease-fire to avoid retaliation.
    Had a healthy force of 10-15 axemen, at this point, but Justinian had a LOT of units running around (mostly axes/spears) and I couldn't get above 0.8 of his power.

    When a stack of his landed on flatland by Constantinople, I re-declared to clear his units in the field.
    I then made the fatal mistake to go after the shiny-holy-hilly Buddhist city with 60% cultural defences. My force of highly promoted axemen was utterly destroyed.
    Coulda, woulda, shoulda... yes, should have gone around and picked on the easier targets, bind my time, fortify Constantinople with a handful of units and decrease his production capabilities by going all the way around his weaker cities.

    Whatever... I then proceeded to lose Constantinople to only keep the tundra junker I had initially captured.
    Finally, I headed towards Machinery when Justinian sniped the gold city that started this whole war (defended by a single warrior...).
    Started to build up again, reached Machinery, got Catapults, Buddhist AP forced peace...
    ... and right at the end of that forced peace, like 1 turn before I would redeclare onto Justinian, Hatshepsut came through the Byzantine lands to DoW me.

    GG, game, didn't war well enough.
    Sure ain't in a position to fight against 2 opponents.
     
  5. Major Tom

    Major Tom Immortal

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    Resigned around 900 AD.

    Fredrik snatched lib 520 AD, so that card went out of the window. And knowing about another lovefiesta on other continent things looked grim, techwise. Anyway, had friendly relations to all (except J.), played on, hoping for sushi and diplowin, but the privateers just made me realize I screwed it up, due to high risk war/workerstealing 3800BC.
     
  6. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    Goal: Quick Domination (haven't won that award yet in botm) and won 1150 AD. Wanted early finish so I didn't milk for score.

    Some highlights were ~6xx AD Kremlin and ~7xx AD Rifling. Whipped cavalry to take out Egypt, Byzantium and Germany and settled some islands to reach the limit. Didn't need to attack America or India.
    Cuirassiers are good, but cavalry against medieval units is just absurd.

    I will agree that this didn't feel like a deity game. IMO it was a bit too easy with superb land and rivals that were easy to control/manipulate. Might as well just make a difficult immortal game. Would lead to some more interesting decision making. We had our settling area set in advance for instance.

    Thanks for hosting. Personally I don't want this kind of game to be the norm, but I still enjoyed it as a one-off.
     
  7. yyeah

    yyeah Emperor

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    So yea i was right on my predictions that one does need "only" main continent and this 2 islands NE and NW for DoM.
    Anyway GG Rusten 700AD Rifling its a great date did you skip Cuirs ? i supose yes.
     
  8. Rusten

    Rusten Deity

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    I was building some cuirassiers while teching so I had a quick war with Justinian with cuirassiers. Took 2-3 cities -> cease fire -> upgrade to cavs -> finish him off.

    My game was better suited for conquest as I easily could've taken my ~50 idle cavalry onto India and America (which didn't have rifling yet), but I needed a domination victory.
     
  9. Jastrow

    Jastrow Deity

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    What I felt was a very promising start fizzled into a rather ordinary finish...

    I decided to take the state property route to space, accompanied by a musketeer and Cannon sweep of the continent. Took Justy out, and then about half of Hatty and vaselled here, and then got rid of the Germans. In retrospect, maybe I should have taken on the Germans first, as they had better land.

    Got to 40 cities, but made a mistake (more used to the corporations approach) and did not grow my cities big enough. Also, did not war as effectively as one needs to for a really good date. This all added up to a fairly uneventful run to space in 1650 (should have been 1645, but I bungled worker movements and was left a a few hammers short on my final part. If not for this, I would have launched the turn after completing research.) Final score was a uninspiring 240K.
     
  10. Imploding

    Imploding Warlord

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    Ended up axe rushing justasin! Went to hell.. only got 3 workers then he got metal and i peaced. Oracled Metal casting.. and buildt GLH. Expanded like the plauge and got a currisair rush going.

    Secured my iceland at 1250 AD. And now I'm considering to start the naval assault on Lincoln and Gandhi!

    As Solyaris said... It almost feelt like Immortal with this start.. and it sure did... not once was i afraid of the diety Ai's. and they got alot of room aswell.

    Fun map OP! Looking forward to more diety games!
     
  11. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    Don't remember too much of this game other than blowing it... Had a fairly promising start but got over-confident by declaring on Justinian. He had been at war with the Germans so figured his army would be way off, but my 20+ army of cats and other junk couldn't hold the first city I captured because of course Fred and Just signed peace a few turns after I declared. Threw the towel there. Should've turtled until later.
     
  12. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    How annoying. I just realized I played the adventurer save.:mad:

    I was literally thinking it played out like a Monarch game. Now it all makes sense. My score sucked and you guys all had a lot more trouble than I did!
     
  13. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    I finally finished the game. Domination in 1610. I'm pretty tired so I will wait with the AAR a little.

    I would have liked to used cavs which is probably the better idea but I was afraid Justinian was going to overrun Germany which may make him a monster.

    I did open thius thread by misstake a week or two ago but I closed it as soon as I realized it was the game I was playing.
     
  14. Dhoomstriker

    Dhoomstriker Girlie Builder

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    Where I left off, Justinian and Frederick were in a war with each other, with Justinian losing badly. So, I joined in on Justinian's side.

    Unfortunately, a couple of turns later, Hatshepsut's Culture covered the only path through the Peaks between Justinian and Frederick, and Justinian didn't have Open Borders with Hatshepsut! Oh, my goodness!

    Although Justinian had been pumping out stacks of Military Units, they were now unable to help me out in the war. I ended up delaying the capture of German Cities for about 12 turns until reinforcement Catapults, Macemen, War Elephants, and a couple of Knights arrived on the scene to give me enough forces to break through the German lines. Meanwhile, I was playing cat-and-mouse with Frederick's stacks of Maces, Cats, and Knights that kept hopping from City to City of his as I moved my stack about.

    Patience paid off and I was eventually able to take down and vassalize Frederick.

    When Justinian came a-knocking with a Demand, I gave in and he shortly-thereafter declared war on Hatshepsut, sealing the game for me, as Justinian had an outlet for his stacks and I was able to take on Hatshepsut's army with the extra help. It was easy to take on Justinian later on with my veteran troops and his depleted military forces.

    I settled some Cities on an island that got revealed by capitulating Frederick, who had already managed to settle two Cities there.

    Over time, I took out most of Justinian and Hatshepsut, ending the game 2% shy of the Land Domination Limit.

    I played for Score, although after a certain period in time, I kept losing so many points per turn that I had to focus extremely hard on City growth just to avoid too many of my points from disappearing before I could win the game.

    With Gandhi and Lincoln content to remain peaceful Defensive Pact allies of each other overseas, and with the Corps that I wanted to found in the bag, I left them alone to build most of the late-game Wonders and to found some of the other Corporations on their own. They wouldn't make it to Space before I could win the game, so their primary purpose for existence was to prevent me from going over the Domination Land Limit.

    I went for an Espionage Cultural Victory to finish off the game, as I'd never won solely that way before (I recall our team winning an SGOTM game where there was one City that had to be brought to Legendary status, and Espionage was used in that game, but I don't think that I've had the chance to use that tactic on all 3 Legendary Cities in a game until now). As expected, my game was far from refined and I had way too many Spies and far more than enough Espionage Points.

    An interesting thing happened where Lincoln decided to spam his American Corporation (Creative Constructions) overseas to one of my Cities, disrupting the Mining Inc Corporation that was already there. I left it there to see if he'd continue, but he seemed to have lost interest in further overseas spreading, leaving the job up to me if I'd wanted to continue the task (which I didn't want to do, either).

    The Americans built Rock 'N' Roll and Broadway for me, while the Indians built Bollywood, and they both gladly traded the corresponding Resources to me, helping to counter-act the fact that they were both running Emancipation.

    Thanks for a fun and challenging game! :)
     
  15. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I quit for a combo reason of running out of time and somehow forgetting some aspects of Religious victory. Didn't play with a goal for much of the BCs and then decided for RDV, which I had kinda wanted to do from the start but missed an early play. Tried piggybacking off Justy building the AP. Spread the AP religion to the world myself in the early ADs.

    However, I was playing with the plan of no state religion to build diplo. Once diplo victory became an option I could never vote for myself. Only Justy was an option. ugh. Most often with RDV I've built it myself as far as I recall, which I know ensures you get a vote. However, was assuming as second in AP pop I'd be eligible. Nope. Gotta be in the religion. Thought I'd work it by going with the AP religion, becoming leader, then switching out (I had tons of AP pop with 20+ cities) Nope, that didn't work. Once I switched out, then the instead of a DV vote, it called for another election immediately (even though I was just elected). Clearly now I see why. Live and learn.
    Possibly could have won just by going back into AP religion...may have had enough votes and even some others still voting for me...but too late.

    Fun start for sure. Wish I just went the war route. Instead I never fought a battle until the very last second bribe/Dow on Justy for what I thought was securing the win. Too bad..nice easy Deity game.

    Pretty much settled all the islands myself, but should have done it a lot sooner. Fred got one crap city up North.
     
  16. Dhoomstriker

    Dhoomstriker Girlie Builder

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    That's a tough way to learn that in order to be the Apostolic Palace Resident, one must either own the Apostolic Palace or be a player with the Apostolic Palace Religion as one's State Religion and have the most population points in Cities that contain the Apostolic Palace Religion relative to any other non-AP-owner player who is also running the AP Religion as their State Religion.

    Theoretically, you could get the AP owner to be the AP Resident, then hope that said AI proposes a Religious Victory vote. However, you'll need to be in the AP Religion on the turn before the AI proposes that Resolution, and voting happens before your turn starts, so the "AP Cheese" approach of having all AIs be in a non-AP Religion doesn't work in your favour in this scenario.

    Another thing to watch out for is the AP owner learning Mass Media, which will make the effects of the AP obsolete, including voting and bonus Hammers from the AP Religion's Buildings. You then need to capture the AP and put it into the hands of a player (probably yourself) who doesn't know Mass Media in order to "un-obsolete" the Apostolic Palace.

    If you know Mass Media and you own or capture the AP, you can still un-obsolete it by gifting (or losing) the AP City to an AI who doesn't know Mass Media.

    So, it's a Wonder where its obsoleted status is determined by the current owner knowing a given tech, rather than you knowing a given tech. It's neat to have the AP Hammers "auto-magically" restored just by getting the AP into the hands of an AI player who hasn't learned Mass Media.
     
  17. yyeah

    yyeah Emperor

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    This pass Dhoomstriker ? :).
    Spoiler :



    I rly like this pass and allmoust felt sorry for Justinian... allmoust :).
     
  18. Dhoomstriker

    Dhoomstriker Girlie Builder

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    It was similar, although Hatshepsut placed the City of Pi-Ramesses slightly differently in my game.

    Spoiler :




    It appears that Justinian could go through Hatshepsut's territory at that time, since Hatshepsut was at war with Justinian (but she had been bribed in by Frederick and thus Hatshepsut wasn't doing anything noteable in the war). But, a few turns later in 400 AD came the unfortunate "Justinian I has made peace with Hatshepsut!" message that cut Justinian off from Frederick.
     
  19. yyeah

    yyeah Emperor

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    Oh yeah that hurts, allthough this passages was a nice idea on map.
    It work out well for me since i was able to block off Justinian stack by forceing him to make peace with Hatty right befor i DoW on him.
    And not so great for you since its a huge disadv not haveing Justinian troops to help with your warfare.
    Anyway this mountain chain wasnt something that player could skip in a thinking process.
     

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