[BTS] BOTM 132 - Final Spoiler (game over or abandoned)

kcd_swede

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BOTM 132 - Ragnarök - Final Spoiler





So how did your game after 1AD go?



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No posts, eh?

The game went reasonably well. Had a good amount of cities teching well at 1AD, so I basically just built on that. And waged some warfare. The AIs were incredibly slow techers -- when I located the last two, they didn't have Alpha yet, in 1000AD! :crazyeye: But given distance and so forth, I decided to invade Kublai first, which was shortly before 1AD. Later I landed units on Gilga's land. Dared to do that because, for one reason or another, I couldn't see Humbaba. Even landed a spy to check him out, but he was nowhere to be seen. Gilga did settle a city on Willem's land, which Cathy later captured, so maybe he got lost at sea? Tanks aren't the best swimmers. There were also a pack of galleys in his cities, so it's possible he was stuck in one of them I suppose, though it would be weird to not disembark when I was stealing his cities. Largely by amphibious assaults, granted, but still. Great land he had too, with plenty of food, and some much-needed resources, not least the Gems. And then there was the funky 4:food: tile...

Early on I spotted what looked like Indian colours while exploring, but didn't get actual contact with him until Optics. Both were hilariously backwards, so getting +4 fair trade was a no brainer, and cheap too. Apparently Boudica and Hannibal had been waging war for a good while, and were still at it when I located them. 2-3 GGs spawned elsewhere, so I thought the last two AIs were at war with the 'barbs', but it was the barbs fighting among themselves. The continent looked pretty big, my units weren't terribly far away, so I decided to get a pack of Galleons and take it.

Throughout this I had basically been bulbing towards Mass Media, and Libbed Radio. Could have won in many different ways, but decided to go for the UN. Willem and Cathy were Buddhist, as were I, so both were Friendly. Population sizes were pretty similar between Willem, Cathy and Roosevelt, but by the vote Roosevelt had more, partly due to (finally!) filling out his land with cities. I hoped for a 22% Great Engineer to speed things along, but didn't get him. Would have shaved off about 20 turns. A Golden Age or two helped, though, and I won Diplo before Turn 200.

Score was rising rapidly at the end, 3-4k a turn, but I just wanted it over with tbh, and with a different approach it's possible to get silly scores on this map anyway.

Thanks for an excellent and fun map :)



(edit: Why does the header say BOTM 128?)
 
I'm seeing that we do need to conquer the minor civs.
I posted here cus if this is true, it's probably not fair to inform people this late.
You are right... another player brought this to my attention. yet another (unintentional) pitfall set up by the mapmaker. what do we usually say? Never trust a mapmaker.:cringe:
 
The plan was to rush to Astronomy while taking care of Cathy. Then wipe out the northern hemisphere.

Things happened pretty fast after 1AD (T115)
116 Willy down. His cities were still in revolt. One settled on stone. The capital had an aqueduct... Hey I could chop the HangingGardens in just a couple turns.
119 Gilga dead
121 Hanging Gardens
130 Astronomy/ Cathy beaten, I just need to wait for Feudalism to get her capitulation (hindsight: should have done peace vassal)
134 Gandhi vassal
136 Roos vassals
(park boats, delete some workers, etc)
137 win! wait... what? :aargh::wallbash:
(gas up the boats, whip another army)
Go to the opposite side of the world and find the other 3 minor civs.
Vassal is not possible, so need to find every. single. city. and conquer all.
144 Celts
146 Hannibal
147 Mongols are the last to fall (would have been first if I knew I had to kill them eventually)

Very fun game. I was going to replay it (for fun) without Astronomy--just one culture-bridge from Cathy to India, but now that I know minor civs have to be killed, it's not possible to reach them all.

I'm honored to have gotten burned by kcd_swede's final and arguably most evil (and seemingly unintentional) twist.
:thanx:
 
War against the Mongols went slowly, but that conquest was finally completed in 1440. Meanwhile, Willem beat me to Liberalism by three turns and beat me to completing the Taj Mahal by four turns. I delay getting Astronomy after all the AI, because I don't want to give up the bonus from Colossus. Anyway, galleys are enough to reach the Sumerians and start conquering their cities. (I never did get a glimpse of Humbaba, but he must have allowed Willem to become the hero. The Sumerians still hold one captured Dutch city.)

Gandhi had build the Hindu AP and there had been more than one vote for a Religious victory, but Catherine voted for Gandhi, while Roosevelt (the largest Hindu power) voted for himself. I was confident that this even split wasn't a concern for me.

And then came the election of 1625, when Catherine shifts her votes to Roosevelt, who wins a Religious victory with exactly the number of votes needed, 340 of 454! :eek: :mad: :cry:

In analyzing this defeat, I realized that Gandhi had switched to Free Religion, losing her co-religionist bonus with Catherine, dropping it to only +7, while Roosevelt was at +12. That, apparently, was enough.

So, I submitted my loss (after all, if we can defeat stronger AI with these alternative victory conditions, turn-about is fair play). But what kind of Ragnarök is this? Ending in peaceful, religious harmony? Besides, my people had already switched to Free Religion and weren't about to pay attention our own tiny (28 votes in the last election) minority of Hindus. :nono: So I continued playing the game for fun. I conquered the Sumerians (Willem finally recaptured his own city, which had shrunk to 1 pop, razing it in the process.) while the Celts conquered the Carthaginians. (Hannibal had been left with one island city at the "official" end.) I decided the Celts, technologically backwards while rivaling my civilization for size, would be my next target. It takes me until 1866 to finish that job, but I capture nearly the whole continent. Roosevelt made a token attack on one Celt city, then settled two of his own cities at the eastern edge of the tundra.

Catherine, Willem, Roosevelt and Gandhi would each be attacked and made vassals, in turn. I founded Sid's Sushi and Mining, Inc., along the way, which accelerated my growing lead. The unofficial Conquest Victory was achieved in 1914, with 7322 points. Even if this hadn't been unofficial, I doubt this would be worth any more than a middle-of-the-pack showing for me. As usual. :blush:

Incidentally, the AP votes continued throughout the game, but Catherine never again voted for Roosevelt. :rolleyes:
 
Razing the AP city, or gifting Mass Media to its owner is recommended in games that stretch out to the 1800's. All kinds of mischeif can occur... usually just forced to deny resolutions giving conquered cities back, but even the potential losing scenario -- they will all become friends if you war with them all. Sorry to hear of your loss.
 
Fun game, for a slowish space in 1824. Didn't have the stomach to go Sushi, so kept in SP. I vassaled the Dutch, eliminated the Mongols, Sumerians (Humbaba disappeared, after what happened to the machine guns in BOTM130 I suspect at some point the AIs for some reason just eliminate their best units :crazyeye: ), Americans and Indians. The Celts eliminated Carthage, and decided to leave them alone. Also the Russians were kept at pleased for large part of the game (fearing that vassaling them would trigger conquest, I understand now that wouldn't have been the case with the Celts alive), although somewhere in the 17th century Moscow was burned down to avoid AP trouble. Very enjoyable game, especially the first part of it. Thanks for mapmaking, kcd! :goodjob:
 
Razing the AP city, or gifting Mass Media to its owner is recommended in games that stretch out to the 1800's. All kinds of mischeif can occur... usually just forced to deny resolutions giving conquered cities back, but even the potential losing scenario -- they will all become friends if you war with them all. Sorry to hear of your loss.

I wasn't anywhere close to Mass Media or being able to raze the AP city (in fact, I still hadn't gotten astronomy) when Roosevelt won the game. Since only a couple more votes would have saved me, spreading Hinduism to another of my cities would have worked, but I hadn't even bothered with building a monastery for that. Doing so would have been a distraction from my war aims, and I never realized the danger.
 
I hope KCD that your sense of evil mapmakerism is refreshed and you honor us with more sick deviousness.

Space loss to Roosevelt with 40 turns left in the game with my spaceship about 8 turns behind him. Gandhi was close with a culture victory but it wouldn't have occurred until 2 turns after my scheduled landing on AC.

As I said in a comment for a previous BOTM about finding out there was a leaderboard for "participation" trophies, I did my best to screw this game up early so I could lose spectacularly. It is a good thing I sometimes forget the lessons I've learned, otherwise I might actually come close to the top of the results for a game. Who wants that?

First, crank out settlers and forget that we are at permanent war the Mongols and don't worry about city defense and research into iron once we see there isn't any bronze reachable in our continent, and let the Mongol scout travel around freely so the 'Gols would know exactly where to go.

Second, fail to prioritize a few important wonders and lose them by one turn or just a couple turns.

Third, toward the end of the game while having a space win as priority, assume that we are on our last spaceship part ( beating Roosevelt by a few turns, ha ha... take that AI!) only to realize you missed the docking bay and then to compound it, settle a GE to speed up what you thought was the last part in another city by a measly 1 turn instead of using it in Nidaros to possibly allow us to get the docking bay built to beat the Americans.

On the negative side, early exploration did find the lower passage and a rushed archer and then another rushed archer were sent to block it where it was just 1 tile wide. Just a couple of turns later the Mongol "Welcome to the Neighborhood" group of 4 chariots appeared. I knew they would make short work of my unpromoted archers on bare ground so we retreated to a nearby hill hoping they wouldn't bypass us. I lost both Archers, but the Mongols were left with just 1 damaged chariot which retreated.

Once IW was researched I rushed a settler and settled it on the Iron on the ph across the channel with 1 archer and then another to try and keep it long enough to rush a spear and get it over there. Once this was accomplished it meant a nail biting moment when a stack of keshiks, chariots, and an axe showed up to renovate our city (btw, KCD lots of land, horses and iron for the AI! Have you no mercy?)

Surviving this it took awhile to defeat the Mongols but their fate was sealed.

Catherine and I had a love hate relationship throughout withe her alternating between attacking me and being my best friend then later voting for me for a AP or UN win, then rinse and repeat.

The Sumerians went next, though I never saw Humbaba. I attacked the Dutch at their city on the chokepoint between the two halves of their territory, surviving the onslaught of their numberless hoards and took peace to build up more troops and finish them off. A few turns later the Russians attack and because I can't get reinforcements to them due to the Dutch territory surrounding it I lose the city to the Russians.

I meet the Americans and Indians around that time , getting a world map after I had already secured the circumnavigation bonus. It appears the Americans who are way more advanced than everyone else have not been bothered by wars with the rogue civs.

From here it kind of repeats. We take the Dutch city that has their only oil, have to take peace, isolated city and troops, Russia attacks, beat them back, war on the Dutch again, take their capitol, peace with the Russians.

Now I think I'm on the homestretch to a late space race win. Roosevelt is several techs ahead but I have prioritized getting The Internet and learn everything the other AIs know. I pull ahead by a couple techs but Roosevelt is hanging in there. Of course that is when the Russians try another sneak attack, then bring in the Dutch and Gandhi who has apparently given up his vows of pacifism. I hold them all off but of course lose the race to space in the end.

The only other non-rogue civs to go to war were the Americans and Russians, later in the game before the space race started with no real harm to either.

I did remember one important lesson learned in a replay of the previous BOTM. Troops embarked on transport do not get a chance to defend a city and are destroyed when your lone unembarked defender dies and the city is taken. Sometimes it is hard to remember the differences when playing Civ 3 through 6.
 
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*pfft* I got burned by this minor civ bs thingy too. As usual, waiting to the last minute and literally my head was bobbing as I capped Roos expecting conquest only to find out that the minor civs do count. Wastin "my" Time would have beaten me, and likely Jovan, who always goes conquest. I was so tired I was just going to quit but it dawned on me that I could get easy RDV in a few turns by whipping some mishes from nearby cities (to gandhi and roos), so I won a religious victory that could have been won easily a thousand years earlier when I bulbed optics and conquered AP from Amsterdam.

Taking out Mongols was slow but figured (again, not with the thought that I needed to kill them), but just to eliminate the annoyance of them sending units..and keshiks would have been annoying if he ever did get them.. Killed Gilgs in one turn (yeah humbubba disappeared but i did see him earlier roaming around), and capped every AI in one turn with the exception of Roos, who was a bit stubborn - likely to the fact that Washington was inland (not captured) and he expanded more than any other AI.

Only Berzerks were used, and a super medic chariot. Having the medic in the boat with the injured berzerkers worked very nicely, as they healed very fast while the boats were traveling to the next target.

Interesting map. Not sure I'm a big fan of minor civs..at least having so many on the map.

Anyone notice the maintenance in overseas cities..wow.
 
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