BOTM 14 First Spoiler

DynamicSpirit · Jan 25, 2009

BOTM 14 First Spoiler

Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 14, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER

You must have reached at least 500 AD in your game, OR
You have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions

Please do not discuss anything post 500 AD.
Please do not discuss any events in locations or reveal any of the map not reachable before caravels.
Please do not name any civs that are not contactable before caravels.

Sleepless · Jan 25, 2009

Not sure whether to put this in a spoiler or not so will anyway just in case.

Spoiler :

nokem · Jan 25, 2009

Monarch is my level and archipelago maps play slightly easier than average so I'd be disappointed to lose this one. I'm not likely to trouble the medal board but I'm at least hoping for a competitive finish date.

I didn't like the look of the starting location: too many sea tiles. I moved the settler SE looking for more substantial food along the river. I didn't see any, so founded Babylon on turn 2 on riverside plains 2SE 1S of the original start. Not sure if it was really worth the delay - left the capital slightly food poor, but at least it could run a decent number of cottages. Once copper popped up in the BFC I was much happier. A good mix of commerce and hammers with a nice boost from the Wine once I reached Monarchy. Early cottages and a beeline for Bureacracy might be in order.

Techs: Mining, BW
Build: Worker, Warrior

My scouting warrior was eaten by a lion early in proceedings, but not before he'd made contact with the Mayans. Evidently they were very close and I was pretty sure of the direction they came from. When I saw the copper I decided to rush immediately with axes. My second warrior located Mutal while I whipped and chopped 5 Axes. I left one on garrison duty (I had spotted a scouting Mayan archer) and declared witht the rest. I killed the two defensive archers for the loss of two axes. The Mayan civilization was no more.

Techs: Pottery, Hunting, Archery, Writing
Build: Barracks, Axe, Axe, Granary (whipped), Axe, Axe, Axe

Mutal looked like a perfect GP farm. I started to rex from the capital and didn't stop until I had 9 cities in 500AD. I planned to block SB to the south and make a bid for the Gt Lighthouse and Oracle. Unfortunately I was narrowly beaten to both. I guess that's the price for my early rush. However I'm pretty confident of out-pacing the AIs on an archipelago map so I don't mind if they get a few extra techs to trade.

Techs: Masonry, Fishing, MC (from a hut), Sailing, Myst, IW, AH, Alpha, Med (traded), Poly (traded), Priest, COL

Cities:

There's room for at least 15 productive cities on this continent without even troubling SB. Unless there's a surprise out in the fog a totally peaceful space victory should be achievable without too much drama.

nokem

lightsedge · Jan 25, 2009

I didn't like the initial location that much, since the food resources would take a while to hook up. Lots of coastal squares too, which means I would probably have to move my capital for bureaucracy. I ended up finding a great location inland with pigs and corn, which I took although it had two mountains. My third city was on the sheep hill, which I built Moai on. Looking back, maybe I should have settled in place for the GLH (which I missed), but it didn't hurt me too much I think.

I built Stonehenge and the GW, which I probably shouldn't have since I had a great anti-barb UU. Then I could have prioritized the GLH or Oracle. Having the stone was too tempting though!

I found copper in my capital's BFC early, but I decided to let Pacal live, since he wasn't particularly close, and would be useful for tech-trading with and building up my future empire :lol:

. His capital is the holy city for 2 religions, so hello Wall Street city!

Anyway, I've expanded to 9 cities so far. Not really a very fast expansion, but I kept my tech rate up. Sitting Bull annoyingly decided to set up shop in the jungles to the south though :mad:

. Makes me wish I had REXed, but his puny outposts won't be a problem to take care of. I will have to do it soon, since there's no more space to peacefully expand. Pacal will be after that. I hope he builds a few more wonders :mischief:

.

I'm building the Great Library in Babylon. Tech-wise, I'm running Bureaucracy and just got Music for the free artist. Currently researching Paper and going for Liberalism. I'm pretty far ahead of anyone in score, so it shouldn't be much of a problem. Don't know which victory option to pursue yet. I'll decide after I conquer my (big) island. With that much land (relatively), there should be many ways to win.

TheMeInTeam · Jan 25, 2009

I cut pacal down with axes and settled most of the continent. I got a late GLH, late mids, etc. The game is already in ridiculous winning position well before 500 AD, it's just a matter of when.

Similar to sleepless I got beat to 1 city site on the island by the anti-rush cow, but was running away in tech.

Letting pacal build wonders might have been a better idea, however his capitol is a very sound (and pre-developed) GP farm, so IMO it's a tradeoff.

As for where I settled, I settled in place. I know there were suspicions that this would be suboptimal after the other BOTM, but even if all we got was what was in view, a plains hill on which to settle and the seafood meant it would be a reasonably decent start at worst.

ShannonCT · Jan 25, 2009

Goal: High scoring domination

I settled in place with the idea of getting an early GLH. An inland capital wouldn't get the extra trade routes. My second city ended up getting corn, pigs, and copper, but without many river tiles, that site would have taken quite a while to develop into a better capital than the in-place location.

I declared war on Pacal in 2775BC, stealing a worker with a warrior. I declared again in 1550BC and captured Mutal with an axe rush. That turned out to be the only Mayan city. :confused:

GLH was built in Babylon in 1475BC.

With Mutal full of forests, I chopped the Oracle there for Civil Service in 575BC. Mutal would become my GP farm, so I started praparing it for that purpose.

Other wonders included Colossus (5BC), Pyramids (280AD), and Great Library (385AD).

By 500AD, I had 9 cities on the continent and had teched through MC, Education, Philo, and Calendar. I was researching Music and planning to head for Military Tradition. The plan was to conquer the other AI with Cuirassiers and Cats.

Adama · Jan 25, 2009

GOAL: While planning this game, I realized that I had never won an xOTM Contender Class save above Warlord level. This was my fourth BtS Civ game {ever} and my third BoTM. As you can tell, xOTM games are about all that I have time for in Real Life (RL), actually more than I have time for according to my wife. My goals were to win a Domination or Conquest victory on Monarch Contender Class save, and improve my early warring skills.

STRATEGY: Since I thought this to be a waterworld, I decided to make my priority a beeline to Astronomy, bulbing it with a Scientist. To do this I had to skip researching Meditation (to avoid the GS bulbing for Philo), and skip early COLaws and CivSvc, as well as Theology.

I built the Oracle circa (ca.) 1325 BC and chose MC free. In 200BC I was able to steal a tech for my first time ever (Masonry)- I have a lot left to learn about espionage and spies in BtS. That was neat. It was just in time to enable me to proceed with my plan to build the Hanging Gardens (HG).

I had this grandiose plan to use theatres for happiness and the culture slider to avoid War Weariness (WW). Obviously, with my Astronomy beeline, strategy I wouldnt get to Drama until much later.

I had my fifth city (captured one from Pacal) by 115 AD. I hadnt felt ready for my first war then, but when I got the opportunity to steal two workers at once from Pacal, that tipped the scales.

I didnt build enough early workers, and I did not cottage enough squares early. I didnt utilize Slavery as much as normal, but thats because I preferred to let my cities grow.

By 500AD I was questioning the wisdom of my strategy. I didnt even know for sure if Astronomy would be needed on this map (would Galleys do the trick?). I couldnt, for example, build courthouses, monasteries or utilize the Bureaucracy civic. And my research rate was dropping rapidly. But even a bad plan is better than no plan at all, and since no plan is going to survive first contact with the enemy anyway

I amended my goal a little to include circumnavigation of the world first, destroying Pacal in the East and also expanding to the West, and also maybe I could get on the winners board with a medal by achieving the {drum roll please} . earliest time victory. Ha! I think instead of a shield, etc. the icon for that would be a time machine. LOL!

Also, many thanks to DS for his help with a problem or two that I had with my game, and the helpful information he always provides.

Adama

darreljnz · Jan 26, 2009

My second BOTM. I usually play Prince and am moving to Monarch so this is a great BOTM for improving my game.

Settled in place as I couldn't see a better option.

Was stupidly beaten to SH after forgetting to chop (yes, I'm one of those players) but made the GW, GLH and the pyramids.

I took it to Pacal who had the buddhist holy city and an excellent capital location. I was extreeemly lucky with his capital with two axes and two warriors vs 2 archers at 40% cultural defence. Two axes died with no archers down but through luck both warriors had killed enough barbs to get CR3 and took the capital with 0.1 left of a warrior.

I then found Pacal has built another city to the south so whipped another army and took it. I was amazed to find he had yet another city on the peninsula on a hill. Decided to leave it alone so I could eventually backfill some techs he had and keep him as a trade partner.

By this time I'd decided on a domination win - a big barrier being a jewish powerhouse of 3 AIs. I was ahead in score but 3 civs vs me would be a drubbing so my plan involved converting sitting bull to buddhism to avoid the diiplo hit when I eventually DoW. I haven't really waged religious war before so I was surprised that after all his cities had buddhism he wouldn't switch because "We just don't like you enough." About that time I had my first spy in his captial and noticed you could influence religion (this is only the second game I've ever used spies) and got him to flip for about 500 commerce.

Now I have a stack of about 15 gathering slightly offshore about to pounce.

I have only got 6 cities and went from 30% science after my war with Pacal to 80% now. Essentially I saw no point in expanding into the jungle on my own when I'll be taking 2 maybe 3 good city spots shortly.

Currently I'm friends with everyone other than Monty even though most of the world is jewish or hindu. I have a great tech lead - especially since I'm the only one with alphabet.

Mistakes so far:
-Forgetting to chop SH
-Not specialising my cities earlier
-Not ramping up my SE early enough
-Not keeping a city with clean GPP to get a Great Prophet for the holy city

Successes so far:
-Best mid-game position I've ever been in on Monarchy level
-I have a long-term plan for victory which I usually don't see at this point
-Good stategic tech trading

I'm not going to get a great score but I'm thinking victory is probable.

TheMeInTeam · Jan 26, 2009

The requirements for astro bulb:

1. No meditation
2. No Theology
3. No Civil Service

After that all you need are pre-reqs for astro (you need alpha too since that will bulb). You can get Code of Laws and currency and still bulb astro, and I suggest doing so if possible, especially CoL which will make getting the GS's a lot easier

.

Adama · Jan 26, 2009

TheMeInTeam said:
The requirements for astro bulb:

1. No meditation
2. No Theology
3. No Civil Service

After that all you need are pre-reqs for astro (you need alpha too since that will bulb). You can get Code of Laws and currency and still bulb astro, and I suggest doing so if possible, especially CoL which will make getting the GS's a lot easier .

I've already finished and submitted, but thanks for this information. I am adding it to my notes even as I type this... well, sorta' as I type... :mischief:

Typing with one hand is a skill you learn in those "other" forums :satan:

This information makes it a lot easier alright.
Adama

kcd_swede · Jan 27, 2009

I wandered around with my settler for a bit, settling on turn 5 on a spot that copper appeared later. :mad:

Its my own fault for ignoring the blue circle on the spot right next to it, thinking that the circle was just for an extra silk or something. Ha ha on me! Anyhow, the Capitol there was very hammer poor, but was a cottage powerhouse that enabled me to have a healthy tech lead all the game to 500AD. Had to slave a lot of infrastructure which is sub-optimal in a space race game.

Upon settling, contact with Pacal was instant. When BW comes around, here I am sitting on copper with Pacal a mere 7-8 tiles to the east. Hmmm... we're alone on a continent so he won't trade with me, and well, I have all these axes and wondering where to put them...

But then Sitting Bull's workboat floats by, and thus a war is averted in favor of tech trading orgies. I have much room to expand (my second city went east to block Pacal at choke point, got iron there too iirc). Third city went South to get some resource (stone and horse?), and I don't think I settled at/near the start position until city 6 or so. But that turned out to be a very very good production city. Should have settled it sooner, perhaps, but it was safe behind my borders anyhow. I don't regret moving so much, since it contained Pacal, letting me keep him alive for trading without him ever getting too big. It was a good site for getting some early GS's as well. Pacal founded Hindu and shared it with me -- how nice!

Since I didn't make a coastal city until late, GLH not an option and I beelined Optics (bulb, iirc) and circumnavigated prior to 500AD. Sitting Bull outlived his usefulness by being dreadfully backwards technologically, so at 500AD I have a continent all my own (Sitting Bull's) in addition to (more than) half of the start continent. Conquest by Swords for the archers and chariots for the Dogs. Chahokia is my FP site. Don't recall if I managed to build FP before 500AD or not, though. I'm pretty sure I had Astro at that point, which is a record of sorts for me at Monarch level.

So... at 500AD I have enough land/cities for a good run at a Space Race, in my estimation. I lead in techs, cottage economy/specialist economy hybrid does the trick (Pyr+GLib). I concentrated on Naval/Research enhancing techs and traded for the rest. Enjoy that I can keep Pacal advanced enough to be of continued usefulness. A win is almost assured at this point, but will it be fast?

azzaman333 · Jan 27, 2009

Pacal founded Buddhism, built Stonehenge, died, and I slowly filled my continent. Sitting Bull managed to steal the SW of my continent, but that's not going to hurt my inevitable victory if I manage to motivate myself to finish the game off.

Mundungu · Jan 28, 2009

My Start is pretty much similar to azzaman333. I moved the settler Inland, and seing copper already before settling my second city, I placed it there "in the middle" and went on building 5 or 6 axes to take down Pacal asap. Luckily he had founded 2 religions ! Sitting Bull put a couple of cities on my island, but we are buddies, sharing the same religion.

This means however that I skipped all the early wonders ....

There is my dilemna number one, sooner or later need to take down or reduce a couple of AIs, take down the friends ? (easy way) or stay friends and go for a bigger target.

On thing though spooks me in my game, Suliman already became a Vassal of DeGaulle before 500 ... Since Suliman was Nr2 and DG already Nr1, now it looks like DG is overpowefull, with approx 500 point score lead, tech lead, gold lead, prod, culture....
\meanwhile Suliman is obviously already going for culture ....

will be a tough nut to crack.

Next problem is the discovery of Fall from heaven ... since I downloaded the pack, BOTM dropped completely in the background.... Wil I be motivated to finish it ??? not so sure ...

kcd_swede · Jan 28, 2009

Please do not name any civs that are not contactable before caravels.

I think your post (#13) should be editted, iirc there was only Sitting Bull and Pacal meeting this condition. Forgive me if I am mistaken though, since I finished that game a while ago and may have overlooked something in my game. BTW, I am NOT a staff member, so you may tell me to sod off if you wish (staff has established that this is acceptable language) :lol:

azzaman333 · Jan 28, 2009

kcd_swede said:
I think your post (#13) should be editted, iirc there was only Sitting Bull and Pacal meeting this condition. Forgive me if I am mistaken though, since I finished that game a while ago and may have overlooked something in my game. BTW, I am NOT a staff member, so you may tell me to sod off if you wish (staff has established that this is acceptable language)

I'm certain I'd contacted all but Mansa pre-Caravels, and I only couldn't contact Mansa because Monty refused to open his borders.

kcd_swede · Jan 28, 2009

azzaman333 said:
I'm certain I'd contacted all but Mansa pre-Caravels, and I only couldn't contact Mansa because Monty refused to open his borders.

OK, my mistake then. (I had caravels by then so I was being maybe overly careful not disclosing who I met after I got them).

SirDrake · Jan 28, 2009

Oh, the agony of choosing city locations.

I wanted to get the pyramids built, and didn't want to take chances, so Akkad (city#2) was placed to start building (and eating) before expanding cultural borders.

The third city I plopped right on top of the stone. Partly this was to get started on the Pyramids right away, but mostly because there really wasn't another location that was better (it reached both Horse & Iron).

Spoiler :

I got the Pyramids, and as an added bonus, popped a Great Engineer from them. He will be very, very handy.

Also:
Pacal kindly founded a religion and built The Great Lighthouse. Perfect for this map. Sheer dumb luck on my part, but I'll take it. And indeed I took it.

Cheers,
-J

TheMeInTeam · Jan 30, 2009

azzaman333 said:
I'm certain I'd contacted all but Mansa pre-Caravels, and I only couldn't contact Mansa because Monty refused to open his borders.

Some funny things happen when one builds a trireme or work boat and presses "E".

I don't remember who I'd met though. Trade routes with SB were lucrative and I was focusing on my economy since he doesn't declare at pleased. I probably me others too but oh well.

PutCashIn · Jan 31, 2009

I moved the settler 1SE then 1E, AND OMFG DID THE CAPITAL SUCK. Needless to say, green tiles are only great if theres some resource support going on. It wasn't untill after 500AD that my empire came alive.

I also got stumped by the map type, achipelago seemed to push the AI towards science, might be a greater concentration of food resources (well, for everyone except my capital, *sigh*)

PS. I could swear with cultural expansion overriding ocean I'd met everyone befor caravals? - well, they had met me.

jesusin · Feb 1, 2009

TheMeInTeam said:
Some funny things happen when one builds a trireme or work boat and presses "E".

Oh, yeah: your WB gets eaten by a barb galley just before contacting Musa. :rolleyes:

By the way, I found a bug, I'm not sure if it is caused by the game or by the HOF mod. I didn't know Musa. I didn't know it was Musa. But looking at worst enemy info...

BOTM 14 First Spoiler

Fear him of the pink tie

BOTM 14 First Spoiler

Deity

Chieftain

Chieftain

If A implies B...

Deity

Warlord

Chieftain

If A implies B...

Warlord

Jag är Viking!½

meh

Chieftain

Jag är Viking!½

meh

Jag är Viking!½

Warlord

Attachments

If A implies B...

Prince

Ant

Attachments

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