BOTM 16 Pregame. Starts March 15, 2009

[Niklas]

BOTM 16: Dutch Pirates

Game Details:

Arrrr! Black Willem Dread is not pleased. He is the rightful king of the seas, but he is surrounded by pretenders wanting to claim that title from him. Show the landlubbers their place, broadside 'em if you have to!

Game settings:
Civilization: Dutch Pirates (Leader: Black Willem Dread; Traits: Financial, Creative)
Rivals: 6 AIs
Difficulty: Immortal
Map: Archipelago
Mapsize: Small
Climate: Tropical
Sea Level: Low
World wrap: Toroidal
Starting Era: Ancient
Speed: Normal
Options: No vassal states, No random events
Victory Conditions: all enabled

Black Willem Dread:
Black Willem Dread is Financial and Creative; starting with Fishing and Agriculture. The Financial trait gives +1 commerce to all tiles already having at least 2. Creative gives all cities +2 free culture, and 100% production bonus towards Libraries, Theaters and Colosseums.

Unique unit: East Indiaman (replaces Galleon)
It is simply an awesome ship, having 6 strength instead of the normal 4. But as if that wasn't enough it also gets one extra cargo capacity, 4 instead of 3, and like a Caravel it can explore rival territory without declaring war. Sheesh.

Unique building: Dike (replaces Levee)
It adds +1 hammer not only to river-side tiles, but also to all water tiles. Further, the city that builds it needs to be river-side or coastal.

Starting screenshot
This is the start of the game (click for a bigger image):


Adventurer Class bonuses:

1. Pirate stash!: Black Willem has been quite successful in his raiding, and his stash contains an impressive 100 gold.
2. Pirate ship!: Well, it may not be the envy of the world, but you start out with a workboat on the tile north of the settler.

Challenger Class Equalizers:

1. Pirate curse!: The fishermen don't want to be associated with you, they say the fish just won't bite. You'll have to learn Fishing on your own.
2. Pirate reputation!: The fishermen want revenge for their lousy catches, so they all went to join your neighbors instead. Two of your neighbors will start with a workboat.

To Enter the Competition:

This competition will open at 00:00:01 on 15 March 2009, server local time (UTC-6:00). From that date and time, you'll be able to get your chosen starting save here.
Submit the save after your victory (or defeat) here, by 15 April 2009.

PLEASE NOTE that there will be no separate "Saves Available" thread for this game.

Civ version

This game MUST be played in Beyond the Sword (NOT Warlords or vanilla Civ), patched to version 3.17. It must also be played with the HOF mod version 3.17.001. Note that for game security reasons this HOF mod version requires you to be logged in with an account that has admin privileges when you are playing for your game to be a valid entry to the GOTM competition. You'll see a warning dialog if you attempt to start a session without appropriate privileges.

While playing...

Remember - for your entry to be accepted, it MUST be your first attempt to play this game, and you MUST NOT replay any turns. If you make a mistake while playing, you have to live with it, learn from it, and carry on the game without replaying.

We will open 'spoiler' threads during the month for players to discuss what happens in their games. Do not discuss any details of your game outside those threads.

 

[kcd_swede]

Shiver me timbers... archipelago!

I think to settle 1S on the PH unless that reveals something better in the south. Build workboat first, then a workboat and a galley. Sailing is first tech, then mining BW at which time first worker should be ready followed quickly by 1st settler. I'd like a conquest/domination victory at this level, and I would like to borrow some berserkers from that other game if I may? I'll be happy with any victory,though, and must stay a little flexible at least.

No vassals? Arrrgh! Does this mean that colonies are also impossible (will they become independant upon colonizing)?

 

[srad]

Wow, looks like a nice game!

Not sure about the settling position. One south is for the short term better but settling in place gives more food and hammers later on.

Targeted wonders:

1. Great Lighthouse (almost a must from my point of view)
2. Colossus (nice if copper is available, but not sure if it is "necessary")
3. Oracle (Hmm, should I go for it and if yes what is the targeted tech? I think CS is out of scope, so maybe MC or COL? Or just ignore it? Very unsure what to do.)

Think I'll go for a domination victory but my problem is, that I have not that much expirience with this kind of map. Some point milking with Sushi maybe


Does "No vassal states" mean that there are no additional "colony" expenses for cities on other islands?

 

[Skurn]

6 AI on a small map with high sea level... Uh oh!

I bet Ragnar is lurking close!

 

[Vynd]

Having the starting warrior on a different island is a cute touch.

Settling in place looks like a good move to me. Settling 1S gets you an extra hammer early but fewer mines long term. Unless there turned out to be another resource 3S I don't know that its really worth giving up the Clams.

Also, there may not be many other places on the starting island where you can establish other cities. IMHO it's better to stick with this good spot at the north end of the island and hopefully have room for another decent city in the south, than to move south, maybe get a better capital, but increase the odds that you only get a marginal city (if any) elsewhere on the island.

 

[Niklas]

6 AI on a small map with high sea level... Uh oh!

Oops! I guess I got a bit carried away with all the sea stuff. It's Low sea level and nothing else, thanks for pointing this out.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Will look forward to playing it - yay - the first BOTM since BOTM 01 that I can actually play!!!! Thanks Niklas!

But what kind of wicked, evil, dastardly, person puts the settler on a different landmass from the other unit? Hmmph!

 

[mabraham]

Having the starting warrior on a different island is a cute touch.

Settling in place looks like a good move to me. Settling 1S gets you an extra hammer early but fewer mines long term. Unless there turned out to be another resource 3S I don't know that its really worth giving up the Clams.

Also, there may not be many other places on the starting island where you can establish other cities. IMHO it's better to stick with this good spot at the north end of the island and hopefully have room for another decent city in the south, than to move south, maybe get a better capital, but increase the odds that you only get a marginal city (if any) elsewhere on the island.

I agree. There's a serious chance that there's only one more city site on this island. If you move 1S to settle, then whatever cities you build later cannot work both the pigs and the northern clam. I'm not sure if a pig grassland city would get +1F in the central tile, but those who might settle on it are welcome to test it!

 

[mabraham]

Here are some test saves. I wasn't able to work out how to give the Adventurer save the 100 gold, but the workboat is there (and for the opponents at Challenger!) and Fishing is missing for Challengers too.

 

[lukasbradley]

Mabraham, many thanks for creating this. I'll need to practice for these settings.

 

[MarkM]

Looks like you had fun with this one Niklas, great first BOTM effort Is that a leader shot from some mod pack? Willem was the first leader I tried when BTS came out, but haven't tried him since. Not because I didn't find him appealing though! Especially on this map. The Dike will be devastating, if one plays that long (for me it is pretty much a given I won't have won yet -- if I am still playing at all! -- although on the other hand, six AI on a small map may mean the game comes to a head quickly)

I like small, I like normal. A game that will be a challenge, but not take a lot of commitment from the "builders at heart" like me. I might like Toroidal too, but for the life of me I can't remember what it means (I think that the top wraps over to the bottom?) I also wonder the same thing that others have already, does playing without vassals also eliminate colonies? That I'm actually pretty sure of, but what I'm not sure of, does is also eliminate colonial costs?

otherwise I'm pretty much with the emerging consensus. As much as that +2 hammer plains hill is tempting for an early boost for first few dozen turns, it just looks like it will mess up both intermediate capital production and long term city placement too much. that starting location is long on food and short on production, the extra hammers from mining the hill seem important, and it looks like by moving south you'd just pick up another water square south of that southernmost wooded hill. Where we start looks perfect in that regard, maximizes hammers in the vicinity, three hills to mine ... I think you probably only get two if you move. Moving S does increase the number of land squares in FC from 6 to 8, but I think the extra hill & increased whipping fuel is better in the shorter term, and in the longer term you have the dike to make it all moot.

The bigger question for me is initial techs and builds. I think I will skip my usual mining-BW habit and go sailing first. After those three I'll maybe look at what it takes to get GLH? Not sure. Going for early wonders on this high a level is always a gamble. But if I do decide to, for that reason I think I'll have to beeline, and also probably save the woods to chop to build it. The financial trait will help immensely to tech quickly enough to have a shot.

p.s. why do I have a hunch that the warrior being on the other island will end up finding something that will make me want to colonise that island ASAP???

 

[cas]

Hmmm. Looks like a GLH spam-fest...think I will decline that cheese.

Definitely settle in place. I like kcd_swede ideas on initial research: sailing->mining->BW

workboat->worker->warrior(s)->settler. Might be able to whip a second workboat in there.

Normally I avoid warmongering, but it may be a fun change of pace this game with immortal diff, UU, and archi.

cas

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Just to throw an alternative in, how about settling 1E? you lose the fish and gain more not-very-useful sea tiles, but you do gain the pigs (though you need sailing before you can use them). You also auto-clear a jungle, and leave open the possibility of using the fish for a 2nd city, perhaps from the jungle tile 2S of the fish.

Personally I think in-place has more going for it, but I thought I'd throw the idea in as another possibility to consider.

 

[Niklas]

I wasn't able to work out how to give the Adventurer save the 100 gold

You have to hand-edit the Worldbuilder file.

Looks like you had fun with this one Niklas, great first BOTM effort Is that a leader shot from some mod pack?

Thanks! I take that last as a compliment, but no, it's hand-edited by yours truly.

 

[PaulisKhan]

Just to throw an alternative in, how about settling 1E? you lose the fish and gain more not-very-useful sea tiles, but you do gain the pigs (though you need sailing before you can use them). You also auto-clear a jungle, and leave open the possibility of using the fish for a 2nd city, perhaps from the jungle tile 2S of the fish.

Personally I think in-place has more going for it, but I thought I'd throw the idea in as another possibility to consider.

I considered that too, one major case for staying in place though is forest chops for an early WW.

 

[Yamps]

Wow, this game looks so irresistible... Btw, when I read free pirate ship I instantly pictured a free Privateer! Now, that would be real fun in 4000 BC... In spirit with the next SGOTM, pirates back from the future! That would surely do some troubles for nearby AI fishing nets...

 

[MarkM]

Just to throw an alternative in, how about settling 1E? you lose the fish and gain more not-very-useful sea tiles, but you do gain the pigs (though you need sailing before you can use them). You also auto-clear a jungle, and leave open the possibility of using the fish for a 2nd city, perhaps from the jungle tile 2S of the fish.

I actually lumped the two together and just referred to "moving." My same argument applies to this location, but even stronger -- you only have one hill to mine, instead of two or three. In a starting location that is so production poor that is a debilitating flaw IMO.

 

[MarkM]

Thanks! I take that last as a compliment, but no, it's hand-edited by yours truly.

you should upload it so we can all replace the default one, to get us "in the mood!"

 

[Yamps]

No vassals? Arrrgh! Does this mean that colonies are also impossible (will they become independant upon colonizing)?

Does "No vassal states" mean that there are no additional "colony" expenses for cities on other islands?

No colonies and no colonial expenses, I'm pretty sure about that.

Warrior on a different landmass? The last time I played a game like that it was an utter disaster...

I'd settle on spot. Clams could be worked immediately, 3 sea food & commerce tiles to speed up early research look tasty. how does that trick that Gosha mentioned to see blue circles work? Perhaps there is sth valuable to the south, that warrior being to the west is so suspicious...1E loses hills and that Pig won't be improved so fast, so that's out of consideration for me...

GLH has to be done in 50 turns on Deity according to Obsolete's Deity archipelago series. Does somebody know a typical Immortal timing?

Now, if only I could squize in some time. How people play games in ~10 hours is beyond me, I takes 20-30h and sometimes even more for me to finish my games...TMIT's autoworker no micro method isn't really my game and I don't like stack attacks either...

 

[mabraham]

But what kind of wicked, evil, dastardly, person puts the settler on a different landmass from the other unit? Hmmph!

Or Tokugawa across your only isthmus to your continent? Or Always War for Christmas?

Looks like you had fun with this one Niklas, great first BOTM effort Is that a leader shot from some mod pack? Willem was the first leader I tried when BTS came out, but haven't tried him since. Not because I didn't find him appealing though! Especially on this map. The Dike will be devastating, if one plays that long (for me it is pretty much a given I won't have won yet -- if I am still playing at all! -- although on the other hand, six AI on a small map may mean the game comes to a head quickly)

Yes I very much enjoy the Dike. Most archipelago maps I've played have worked along the lines of rush Great Lighthouse, spam (coastal) cities anywhere so long as they have some chance of building a Dike later (since in the meantime the trade-routes and 3-commerce squares will show a net profit), tech like crazy, and pick a late-game VC. The catch here is that there may not be all that much land to spam on.

I might like Toroidal too, but for the life of me I can't remember what it means (I think that the top wraps over to the bottom?)

It's no big deal, you just have a map that doesn't have an arctic barrier at the poles, and you can sail from north to south and vice-versa.

The bigger question for me is initial techs and builds. I think I will skip my usual mining-BW habit and go sailing first. After those three I'll maybe look at what it takes to get GLH? Not sure. Going for early wonders on this high a level is always a gamble. But if I do decide to, for that reason I think I'll have to beeline, and also probably save the woods to chop to build it. The financial trait will help immensely to tech quickly enough to have a shot.

If you want GLH, sailing-mining-BW-masonry has a lot to be said for it. You need to get your basic lighthouse started quickly, you'll need some mines, you'll need to chop for some of the mines. Obviously you can practice with my test game above to optimize your GLH time. Something like WB-WB-worker-WB-lighthouse-GLH might work off the top of my head, but you may need a warrior in there, or to avoid the third workboat. However if one is planning three or four unit builds before the lighthouse, you may prefer to tech mining-BW-sailing, since copper might change your mind (or add to your hammers!)