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[BTS] BOTM 174 Isabella Final Spoiler, game submitted

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by Deckhand, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    BOTM 174 - Isabella ... Final Spoiler

    Did you manage to win? How?
    Did you have fun?


    Reading Requirements


    Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 174 then you MUST NOT read this thread unless
    • You have submitted your entry

    Posting Restrictions
    • Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.
     
  2. jerza

    jerza Chieftain

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    Did you manage to win? Sort of :D
    How? Joined Joao's team just in time :) He built the entire spaceship, but it was launched from Madrid :D
    Did you have fun? Definitely YES. This was the most bizarre Civ4 game I have ever played :D

    Well - I have already said that in the 1AD spoiler thread - this was only my second game on higher-than-Monarch difficulty (the first one was BOTM 172 in which I had absolutely no chance). This time, I somehow managed to survive until the very end :)
    In short, from the beginning I was so badly behind in teching, power, score, cities, resources and just about everything that I completely gave up on building any army, just tried to be on good terms with Joao and George (which went surprisingly well as I shared religion with Joao and joined George in wars agains the Aztecs and the Inca - luckilly they were so remote that no actual fighting ever happened :)). Then Joao agreed with a defensive pact, later on with a permanent aliance, he built a spaceship, I launched it and that was it :D

    Some fun facts:
    - the most advanced unit I built was a maceman
    - my total sum of Combat Experience points throughout the game was, well, zero :D
    - when I joined Joao in a PA (AD 1795), my power ratio with him was 0.0 and I was some 30 techs behind (researching Rifling while he was researching Laser)

    Spoiler Isabella 1080 AD :

    Civ4ScreenShot0024.JPG


    Spoiler Team Isabella/Joao II :

    From Rifling to Laser in an instant
    Civ4ScreenShot0057.JPG

    Joao might have built it, but it was launched from Madrid :D
    Civ4ScreenShot0076.JPG


    Spoiler behold my mighty army :

    Civ4ScreenShot0114.JPG

    Civ4ScreenShot0128.JPG



    Spoiler AD 1858 :

    Civ4ScreenShot0139.JPG
     
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  3. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    :goodjob:

    :lol:

    I was regretting how hard the game was based on first couple of spoiler posts. now I'm happy I enabled the Permanent Alliances. btw, I first learned about them from a thread about how to win at Deity (using them of course) many years ago.
     
  4. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    I was going for cuirs, seeing that washington had an iron to trade.
    10 turns or so before I was going to trade for it, he grants independance to the island holding one of the irons, making both unavailable.
    Had to rush to astro to settle a crap island far away to get my own source of iron.

    Did get a bunch of conqs up, although later than intended.
    Bribed washington on Monty (which I feeded military techs).
    Took two cities before Joao the bastard does an AP vote to stop the war. >_<
    I should have refused...
    Once the 10 turns where done, I reattacked with conqs+cavalery and had some initial success, but then all of a sudden Washington and monty sues for peace and I can't get out of the war once washingtons SOD turns to me instead.
    Resigned once I had lost almost all of the cities I took from him.

    Fun game (extremly fun up until 1AD!), abit annoyed at myself that I lost focus and did a bunch of stupid mistakes.
    Should have broken up the gameplay over several days instead. :)

    Thanks again for the map!
     
  5. Xcalibrator

    Xcalibrator Ultraviolet Catastrophe

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    Gave up in 1480 when Wash vassalled Monty, with whom I was also at war. I'd tried to keep ahead of Wash's army so I could snag some of Monty's cities myself, and got 2 that way, but since Wash had 2-movers (LOTS of them) and I had none, he would often still beat me. When peace was declared, I was just about to capture one of Monty's island cities with horses. Without horses, or iron, or coal, and falling farther and farther behind, I quit. Rather frustrating experience, since I think that if I'd had horses or iron I'd have had a decent chance. Toward the end I was so desperate I even did the immoral/illegal sneak of paying Joao a pig plus 159 gpt for iron to upgrade my trebs to cannon for one turn and then pillaged my own pig to cancel the deal. I are ashamed, and I never even got the chance to fire them as it turned out. Obviously the key here was to REX toward the other AI and grab land before even knowing what resources it contained. Equally obvious is that I don't know how to do that without killing my economy before getting Alphabet so that I could build research and not fall hopelessly behind. I'll probably have another go at this when the pain wears off.
     
  6. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    That trick is allowed afaik. Is it really more immoral than attacking our stalwart allies who have been our friends all game? Or gifting cities and then capturing them for war score?
     
  7. MarleysGh0st

    MarleysGh0st Chieftain

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    As I said in my first spoiler, I took the Adventurer save, so the challenges I faced were nothing like what the rest of you playing at Deity experienced. Still, by deciding to finally try to up my game (after over a decade of finishing in middle of the pack) I got to try some things I never did before. And, as I said, I wanted to try a Conquistador rush.

    In 100, I'm first to Music; I save my bonus GA for a later golden age. In 540, I agree to Joao's request to switch to Confucianism. Washington and Monty are both Hindu. I build the Great Library in 400. Monty and HC are both plotting and don't like me (hey, I'm actually paying attention those "plotting" fist icons, now!) but neither has open borders with Washington, so they shouldn't be able to reach me if a war begins.

    In 880, I build the Mausoleum. In 1040, I'm first to Liberalism and take Military Tradition as my free tech. In 1050, I use a GS for a 12-turn Golden Age, switch to Caste and Pacifism, and run all-out merchants for some GMs. I later complete the Taj Mahal to extend the Golden Age, then use another GS and my GA to extend it again. 36-turns in a row of Golden Age! :smug: And now Joao will trade iron! (Did he always have two iron resources in his territory or did he pop an extra one? I'm not sure.) He wants an outrageous price for it, but I'll pay when the time comes.

    Meanwhile, Monty finally goes to war against Washington in 1130. I switch to Vassalage, Slavery and Theocracy, and start cranking out horse archers. By 1260, I have over 30 of them and think it's time to upgrade. I give Joao dye and 136 GPT for iron (a price I would have never considered paying anyone for any resource, before this game!) then cash in my GMs with trade missions. [Mistake 1: I didn't starve enough cities running merchants enough, so I only have two GMs. Mistake 2: I sent the GMs to Lisbon, when I probably would have gotten more gold sending them further away to Monty's territory.] That gives me enough gold to upgrade 17 units to Conquistador. I'll have to upgrade more units as I can afford them.

    And as soon as the upgrade is completed, Monty invites me to join the war against Washington, and I accept. The rush goes well, but Washington has his own cuirs, now, and I haven't upgraded enough units to sustain the offensive. Washington and Monty make peace in 1350. After capturing a total of six cities, I make peace in 1390. I cancel that expensive iron trade, then I sign a defensive pact with Joao. I concentrate on building my economy and teching to Communism, to make a permanent alliance possible.

    Washington and Monty fight another war, while I'm waiting for that alliance. Monty does poorly, but they make peace without him having to bend the knee.

    And then, in 1645, Joao and I sign a permanent alliance. What a sweet deal that is! All at once, he gives me Constitution, Democracy, Steam Power, Corporations, Military Science, Railroad, Physics, Electricity, and Fission! :D What more can a person ask for after that, except perhaps...the whole world? :mischief:

    War with Washington runs from 1645 to 1695, when he capitulates. War with Monty from 1730 to 1755, when he bends the knee. (I give Monty credit for persistence, here. He had attacked Louis in 1715. Despite then being attacked by the Iberian Alliance, he still managed to capture and hold Avignon on the main French island!) A slight delay to build a fleet, before attacking Louis in 1775. He capitulates in 1780, after the loss of only one city.

    The final war with HC begins in 1800. He lasts longer; his infantry is a match for our own (although he doesn't have tanks or artillery) and I invade too soon, before building up overwhelming numbers. But in the end, the alliance takes all his islands and three cities, including his capital, on his home continent. He capitulates in 1828, giving my alliance an Conquest Victory in 1830.

    Maybe next time we're up to Deity in the BOTM cycle, I'll be ready to give that a try? :cool:
     
  8. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    GG :goodjob:
    and good writeup

    136 gpt! :eek2:
    Joao: "your trades have been fair and reasonable"
    He must have liked you - he charged Xcal 159.
    I'm regretting the lack of iron less. Y'all had to be more creative.


    note to DS (tentatively scheduled for next deity game in July) - make that deity game something that MG and I can win. Not too easy, so good players still play; but winnable by us. :please:
     
  9. MarleysGh0st

    MarleysGh0st Chieftain

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    Yeah, very reasonable. :rolleyes:

    One of the other new tactics I tried out in this game was switching between running 100% and 0% science, instead of whatever middle range figure my economy could support. That helped out in this trade. When I looked into at first, I was running 100% and Joao wasn't interested in trading at all. When I was saving my income again, then he was willing to deal.

    Later, while the defense pact was running, I settled on top of some iron on one of the small islands, north of France. The maintenance for that city was expensive, but not nearly as expensive as renewing the trade.

    Then, when the alliance took effect, Joao became as generous with his resources as he was with his tech. "You look like you could use this. Have some oil!" :)
     
  10. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    This was far and away my favorite Game of the Month map of all time. :D
    The lack of Iron (a far away island had some), the lack of Elephants, the lack of Marble, the lack of Aluminum, it all worked great.

    I launched my spaceship missing 1 space part (12 turns instead of 10) because Washington kept blowing up my completed spaceship parts and I was worried he'd blow up something vital if I spent 1 more turn finishing the spaceship.
    Closed borders, 1 Spy in each city, 110% espionage spending ratio, 2 captured spies every turn, and he was still blowing up a part every 2 turns.
    Then he started plotting war after I launched. :lol:

    Got an 1818AD Space Win after conquering Joao and France.
    Civ 4 crashed while loading my 1170AD save, so the submission might be rejected if Buffy flagged me.
    Still the best scenario and funnest ever map.

    Will put my write up in here later.
    Too many highlights.

    Game Write Up, Continued from 1AD.
    Spoiler :
    Having to give up Santiago on my southern border to Joao for Peace in 150BC was really humiliating!

    After my terrible start and fighting off Joao's 1120BC declaration of war (delayed until 775BC by gifting Gift City to get Pleased and begging for 10:gold:(Not enough power to make a demand at Cautious)), I had to get back into the tech game.

    No way to take anything from Joao with that kind of defensive stack on my border. :hmm:
    Attempts to lure that stack of doom away by bribing Joao to DOW Monty failed.

    My 2nd Great Person bulbed Philosophy.
    Spoiler :




    Left Buddhism for 5 turns to get Open Borders with Monty to send a Work Boat through to the east. The northern workboat died to a barb Galley and the southern one got turned around by
    Bulbed Education to get to Liberalism fast.
    Met France which became my 1st Jackpot move.
    His map indicated Inca were nearby so I dispatched a Caravel to make fast contact
    Spoiler :



    Spreading a whole lot of missionaries to Washington and a tech trade to convert to Buddhism eventually got him to Friendly.
    Liberalism -> Nationalism in 700AD, far later than when Fippy got it. :bowdown:
    Spoiler :






    Monty was plotting war against someone since 425AD, so I had to send scouts to make sure he wouldn't march through America to attack me.
    Could I bribe Washington to DOW Monty?
    Of course not. :crazyeye:
    Friendly Washington continued to troll me all game by refusing trades and teching whatever I teched 1st.
    Spoiler :



    Cannons and Conquistadors were off the table without Iron.
    Tech all the way to Rifles before attacking Joao?
    Nope, Iron located!
    Spoiler :



    In 900AD, Monty DOW'd the island nation of France, a very stupid war.
    My Caravels also got the circumnavigation bonus 1st.
    All cities built Citadels and built 10xp Catapults once I switched to Theocracy.

    Washington sadly adopted free religion, losing my Friendly status until I could bribe him back to Buddhism.
    Tried to flip Joao out of Hereditary Rule to mess up his diplo with Monty.
    That way I might be able to bribe Joao to DOW Monty.
    The 73% spy failed.

    Eventually, I bribed Joao to adopt Caste at least.
    Switched to police state + free speech to get Conquistador whips and Friendly with no-religion Washington.
    Iron was hooked up in 1050AD.
    Spoiler :

    Washington kept demanding I break my deals with Monty which would break all my trade routes with 3 civs. I refused and he dipped back to Pleased. :mad:

    Joao was a real piece of work.
    When he was willing to DOW Monty, I did not have enough techs.
    When I had enough techs, he was on good terms with Monty since they both shared Hereditary rule.
    When I had enough techs and Monty+Joao's relationship was all messed up by me, then Joao said he had nothing to gain with a war against Monty. :mad:

    With a Conquistador in a Citadel (24:strength: with defensive bonus!), Joao couldn't touch my cities.
    So I performed a timing attack and struck while Joao's Stack of Doom was far away in 1120AD. :ar15:
    Spoiler :





    Got Rifling in 1140AD.
    Wanted to trade it for Washington's Steel, but the war against Washington's friend Joao made friendly relations even farther away, so I had to wait.
    Eventually, I forked over 490:gold: to bribe Washington back into Buddhism. (My money! :cry:)
    Spoiler :

    Ack! +1 shared religion bonus.
    He was Buddhist from Turn 143 to Turn 160, so I thought it would be +2 bonus, but I guess the shared religion bonus decays. :sad:
    Hateful game....

    Finally, all the pain and suffering paid off when I lured Joao into a killing trap.
    8 Barrage III catapults, fresh from the Heroic Epic capital.
    They caused insane collateral damage!
    Spoiler :



    Time to flatten Joao right?
    WRONG, he got Rifling the next turn. :lol:
    Spoiler :

    Signed a Cease Fire in 1180AD.
    Would need to wait until Cannons to DOW again, so I teched it myself since Friendly Washington was not a possibility until 1250AD.
    Avoided Economics to keep Citadels giving +5xp to Catapults, Trebs, and Cannons.
    Spoiler :

    Joao Round 2 was a hell of a war!
    He had Rifles and Airships, but I had Cavalry, Cannons, and later Frigates.
    His army was in the northeast so I Cavalry charged up the left side, hit him hard in the middle, and then wiped out his counter attack.
    Spoiler :













    Police State + Theocracy + Citadels meant I could whip 10xp Cannons in all my cities.
    Joao was suspiciously smart enough to blow up 2 Citadels. :eek:

    Washington was nice enough to found a colony with 3 island cities, so I was able to trade a little with freshly founded Asoka a bit for Washington's techs without WFYABTA.

    Also, about my 4 City Raider III Rifles.
    One died because I though my Combat I Rifle would guard it, but I was wrong.
    City Raider III gives +10% vs. gunpowder units, so it took the attack instead of the Combat I Rifles and died!
    My 2nd City Raider III Rifle died in its first battle at 97%.
    I lost 2 out of 4 right at the start of the war. :mad:

    Joao was finished after his 2nd huge stack of units was destroyed.
    Just a pile of Rifles in each city to smash away with CRIII Cannons.

    At the end, I had to decide if I wanted to Vassal Joao to get techs or kill him off completely for happiness reasons (motherland anger) and to draft right away (need 10% or higher tile culture on city tile).

    Decided on a 2nd ceasefire and gift away 4 of my cities that I whipped to 10 anger.
    Conquered them back and vassalled Joao to get Communism.
    Spoiler :

    I noticed that the AI did not want to trade Corporation even though all of them had it?
    I had to get it from my vassal. :sad:
    Spoiler :


    Washington was a vicious super power with destroyers, raildroads, and most importantly infantry, so I could not attack him before getting infantry myself.
    The Inca also had railroads and destroyers, so I did not want to fight their rifles either.

    Went after weak France who had Musketeers and Longbows. :)
    Gobbled him up until halfway through he got Rifling and made it more interesting.
    Conquered every single city for Sushi resources.

    Founded Mining Inc. and later Sushi on my 3rd try for Great Merchant.
    Grew and went for space without any more war.
    Washington vassalled Monty before I could sail past France to join in.

    I tried to get rid of Joao by demanding his 1 resource a few times, but he kept giving it to me.
    3 wars and 1 razed city meant he was Annoyed and I could do that.
    1 Refusal and I would have had no vassals at all because I kept a City Raider III Infantry there with a few other units the rest of the game. :evil:

    Eventually my vassal Joao and I both got back to Friendly with Washington, but I was only able to trade for 1 monopoly tech before I stole 5 techs from Washington with another spy gift city.
    Internet got me 5 more techs because I left Inca alone, and then it was a brawl between me and Washington for space parts and spies blowing up 2 of my spaceship parts.

    The AI will not trade away any tech that unlocks a spaceship part, saying "we'd rather win the game".

    Launched my ship with 12 turns to go
    after a sabotage because I was too scared to take 1 turn to build the 16th part.
    What if my cockpit got blown up next!?

    Anyway, Washington was the 1st AI I ever saw stand up to +20:food: per turn Sushi pressure.
    He also made my run Free Speech most of the game at the end just for diplo and keeping my borders up.
    I always ran Nationalism or Bureau usually.

    This was also the 1st time I moved heaven and earth to get Friendly with another AI and it didn't really pay tech-trade-wise. :lol:

    So much fun.
    Sorry, can only fit 30 screenshots in 1 post.

    Did I want to go nuclear on Washington?
    Of course!
    But that would not have gotten me into space faster. :sad:

    Permanent Alliance might have been the fastest way into space on this map unless the player had an excellent start.
    I want to play it again but I don't have the time.

    I was only 20 turns faster with my 52 city empire. :lol:

    Nice work getting the PA and Deity win Jerza.

    A conquest win on this big map is great MarleysGh0st! :goodjob:
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
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  11. jerza

    jerza Chieftain

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    @Kaitzilla thanks, considering all the luck I had, I'm pretty sure this will forever be my only Civ4 Deity victory :D
     
  12. shakabrade

    shakabrade Praise Vivec!

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    Retired a game at 1210AD or something like that. Uploaded as retired. Had 21 cities, capped Washington and Montezuma on the ropes. And friendly Joao with 40T of shared war and defensive pact.

    So why I retired, because I pumped my Joao the whole game and then my Friendly Joao, friendly to me and my vassal did not want to sign PA. I searched the forums only to find there are additional PA checks. Apparently, I was too powerful (5 AIs helped there a lot since you and PA buddy should not be more powerful than the rest of the world) . That meant that I need to kill Joao for conquest or space race, and that I need to capture and settle islands for Domination or erase 48 conquistadors and build new ones to resume the conquest or space race with Joao. Since that would have taken me at least 8 hours and I had maybe 2 hours before the trip, I had to quit. I will add some screenies when I get back home.

    I am so stupid for not reading more on PA before investing so much into Joao.

    But maybe it is fair since I popped Iron alowing me 700AD conquistador date.
     
  13. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    @shakabrade Sorry to hear about that, sounds like you had a spectacular game. I didn't pay much attention to permanent alliances myself (didn't even bother trying to read up on it.)
    I guess you can credit yourself for being honorful and not backstabbing your close friend Joao! :)
     
  14. shakabrade

    shakabrade Praise Vivec!

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    @krikav It was a good game. A lot of events. Recovery from Monty taking a city is something I rarely experience. And, indeed, I will use this angle of being honorable and non bakstabbing bastard.

    Could have warred much more aggressively if I did not take care of defensive pact turns with Joao who declares on guys only at annoyed, further meaning you cant bribe him while everyone is still running hereditary rule.

    Anyway, read the forums on weird mechanics and civ illustrated on leaders before commiting to any plan.

    I will probably skip the next game as well, and it really sounds like interesting setup. It sucks, but need some extra cash. Wish I was a princess sometimes. Too bad we cant twitch civ4 in 2019.
     
  15. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Ya, PA is annoying.
    I'll have to check the conditions again since I can't really remember..

    Nice work capping Washington!
    I was too chicken since I would lose access to all the non-Joao AI by declaring war on Washington, and I had an unhealthy obsession with getting payback on Joao.
     
  16. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    I really liked this game and map too (cannot resist playing Izzy anyways),
    was thinking about going for Space but then picked Conquest instead cos not so much time left (4 days until deadline).

    Interesting how all AIs probably met each other before via sea, while i thought only Joao Monty & Wash are around :)
    Early game was intense with much room around us for barbs, and also when Joao & Wash started plotting.
    Monty was always the most likely target, but still ~~

    With no Iron i picked Cavs, had a good economy & GP generation going so no big delay.
    AIs did not handle them well, and i was surprised in the end that i won in 1340AD.
    HC had 22 cities or so by then, but he's not good with building units ;)

    Getting Iron from an island is spectacular, Kai!
     

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  17. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Even if i mentioned it before, i think deity should be hard ;)
    Can always give adventure saves for those who want Emp or so instead.
    But when choosing Deity, "light" is no fun..!
    So well done on this map, spectacular pick overall ~~
     
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  18. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Adding a couple of saves in intervals,
    sadly i have no write-up (yet) thou.
     

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  19. Frederiksberg

    Frederiksberg Chieftain

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    I also retired. Lack of time and a dubious state of my empire decided this :rolleyes:.

    Well done by those who managed to win this difficult game. And @Kaitzilla even managed to go to space :goodjob:
     
  20. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    I went for Diplo. Invaded Washington 1000-1400 AD with drafted rifles and killed him.
    Drafted, look, it's size 1 :
    Spoiler :

    I followed up with an invasion against Inca who had very many wonders. I brought in Monty and Louis as war allies.
    This is where I botched it. War was going swell, having infantries attacking into longbows and then I let Monty capitulate Huayna.
    I took this screenshot of this grand moment, I'll put it in my resume when I ask for a diplomat office :
    Spoiler :

    Ok, game didn't, I wrote that.
    So, one turn before, I could have Friendly Joao, Monty and Louis.
    Then, suddenly, because I traded Mass Media to Joao (of course, I did...), Joao builds the UN 2 turns before I do.
    I cannot get the French to Friendly without suffering -4 with Monty. (Then I realize in a later vote that I didn't even need him to be Friendly...)
    Monty switches civics and I cannot bribe him. All my 4 spies get caught, trying to revolt him into the right stuff. He demands I stop trading with Louis. Relations with Monty go from +8 to +0.
    So I could have had a simple game but then I had to DoW Monty + Huayna.
    In this short interval, both of them get to Infantries, which is no fun.

    On the bright side, since I was swimming in "I feel free land", it let me do that : "Nice culture, jerk !"
    Spoiler :


    "Really, I mean it, nice culture, Jerk !"


    "What about you, what do you say, do you want some land tiles, eh, do you ?"


    So... 1665 Diplo. Not a great score (250K) but I had a great fun.
    I think this is the first time ever I win with the UN. I hope my save is tidy enough for the staff :)


    Another cool screenshot :
    "Next turn, we cross the canal :
    Spoiler :

    Oh, no we don't, we need culture on that tile..."

    Liberalism and draft army :
    Spoiler :




    Last one. I didn't know/remember/check that Optics gave +1 vision over water tiles. So I retreated this good guy a few turns later. Iirc, I researched Philosophy in between :
    Spoiler :

    Is it the same workboat that explored all the way down south along Washington's borders, until he met the ice and had to turn back ? I can't remember, but I know I felt really stupid when my single exploring workboat had to turn back...
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
    krikav and Fippy like this.

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