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[BTS] BOTM 174 Isabella - First Spoiler 1 AD

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by Deckhand, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    BOTM 174: Isabella, Deity or Emperor, Big & Small ... First Spoiler


    Stop!
    If you are participating in BOTM 174, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER
    • You have reached at least 1 AD in your game, OR
    • You have submitted your entry


    Use this thread to tell us what happened in your game, up to 1AD!

    Having Fun?
    Are you keeping up with the Joneses (other countries)? :mischief:
    Did you connect the horse to your east?
    Did jungle grow over the gems? (I thought of removing jungle from the tile 1N, then forgot).
    Did Monte and George go to war?
    Did you have the good sense to take the Adventurer save? ;)



    Posting Restrictions

    • Please do not disclose ANY events or information gained post 1 AD.
    • Please do not reveal your final result if that happened after 1 AD.
    • Please do not discuss the location of resources that may not show up before 1 AD (Iron is OK, coal and oil are not)
    • Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games
     
  2. Xcalibrator

    Xcalibrator Ultraviolet Catastrophe

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    To answer the six questions above: no,no,no,no,no,no. I'm writing this report primarily so other people can hopefully feel better about their games. ;) At 1AD I have 7 cities and 36 pop. Score is right about 500 but the leaders, America and Portugal, have twice that--I'm last of five, with one civ yet unmet. Joao and Monte are at war, but I'm too weak and puny to take advantage of the Portuguese army being half a world away. No wonders, although I came within 3 turns on the Mids. I was second to Alphabet and managed to trade to sorta near tech parity for a bit. Of the first 6 columns on the tech tree, I'm missing Monotheism, HBR, Compass, Calendar, and Machinery, and have a couple techs (Aesth and Construction) that not everyone else has.

    I did get the stone/gold site out east, but that's as far as I got--room for one more foodless city on my west coast. I don't see this ending in a Space victory or any other kind for me. Anxious to hear how it's going for others--I'll likely end up replaying after I reach the clearly hopeless stage, inspired by my betters. Really hurting on certain strategic resources.
     
  3. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    Location:
    Cantaloupe Island
    - yes, a little perplexed by the lack of obvious city locations (food distribution is awkward) but... that doesn't matter.
    - kinda, although I've only met 3 AIs and the trading has been the poorest (Alpha, IW, Sailing, Monarchy, Maths, Polytheism... that's it !). I need a Friendly boy to trade with, 'cause I'm self-teching everything atm (Currency, Masonry, Civil Service, Monotheism, Metal Casting, Calendar, Compass. Probably should have researched Cal before MC)
    - yes, the horses and the gold as well, which seemed to make for a natural border against America. I'd have liked to reach the East coast but was beaten to the capture of barb cities. Joao owns that coast, now. North, I'm battling for the 2 rice tiles with Joao, that's the contested area, leaving me with 9 cities.
    - no war yet, all peaceful, I don't think I lost a single unit to barbarians, either. Yet the diplo is very awkward. Partially my fault for Oracling Code of Laws and founding Confu. Joao is Buddhist and has shrined. Monty has Hindu and spread early to America (hence the peace, they actually liked each other). Wash has only recently founded Tao and converted. And Joao reverted to No Religion after building the Paya, so he and Wash can trade some. I need a +4 fair trade with Joao to take him to Friendly. Last I checked, Monty has Nothing to gain in being bribed on anyone.
    - no and I didn't stand my scout over the tile to prevent it
    - no and maybe I should have, although I do not mind if things slip out of control

    I kinda hoped for some Macemen action. I'm not sure that will pan out. I'm probably researching towards Optics, now (lacking Machinery). I need to meet the last two AIs, if I want to make any progress.
    A single Great Scientist has been produced, as I've focused on improving my tiles. I suppose I missed a window, somewhere, for a second switch into Caste System (first switch circa 1000 BC to pop borders and produce my academy). Playing towards Pacifism, now, is surely more reasonable than playing with Maces.
    I missed the Hanging Gardens (which I really wanted) to Washington by a single turn... Never really tried for the Pyramids, although I identified very early that they would be late (I didn't expect ti would be 200 BC late but still). Didn't try for any other wonder. I missed marble, I'd have paid lot for marble. I secured the stone but I didn't rush for it at all ; I was more interested in the gold at the time.

    Fun fact : size 14 Madrid is actually the top1 city in the world.

    :)

    Opening :
    Spoiler :

    Agri, Mining, Wheel, AH
    Settler at size 3. Grabbed both food tiles with Barcelona because I wanted that ability and to control maintenance (I produced my great scientist there). I did leave the clams in the 2nd ring, however, because I didn't want to overdo it with water tiles.
    Barcelona contributed a worker at size 2. I'm not sure of Madrid's build order. I guess I went 2nd settler before 2nd worker.
    Pottery, Bronze (quite late ! didn't mind much, producing EXP workers on mines), banked 50 gold, Judaism was founded 1720 BC or so, The Great Wall was done 1800 BC, and I decided to go for Priesthood rather than Writing. 3rd settler produced during that time.

    I think I have 5 workers in the picture above.
    Also, my exploring workboat went south, along the coast, yeah !
    A warrior explores to the north and finds Portuguese green stuff.
    A warrior stands to the east before the great desert of America. Wash 7 cities, Joao 6. Rest of the world : unknown : I'm too scared to cross that land before open borders and I don't even have the units to spare (Confucian Missionary will be my scout).
    Joao researched Alpha around 1400 BC, which I was very happy with, at the time. Before I thought : "Oh, hey ! Wouldn't it be nice to meet other people ?"

    Seville and Cordoba have been very useful and matured 7 cottages for Madrid but, really, they're two junker cities. The way I settled the rest, Cordoba has like 4 tiles of its own. Seville at least has been farmed.


    I'm not sure how one is supposed to play this. Timings for Pottery, Bronze and AH all conflict with each other.
    I guess my focus was to avoid going broke. From the time I improved the gems to the completion of the Oracle, I never really did less than 20g/turn at full gold slider.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  4. jerza

    jerza Chieftain

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    Having Fun? - Definitely YES :), this is only my second game on above-Monarch (the first one was BOTM 172 in which I had no chance whatsoever)
    Keeping up with the Joneses? - Definitely NOT, 5 cities (vs. 16 / 14 / 12) and some 10+ techs behind :)
    Did you connect the horse to your east? - no chance, the Portuguese took it
    Did jungle grow over the gems? - nope
    Did Monte and George go to war? - no
    Did you have the good sense to take the Adventurer save? - no way, I choose all the fun, so DEITY it is :lol:

    Spoiler 1 AD :

    Civ4ScreenShot0009.JPG
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  5. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Welp, my opening game was a disaster.

    Turn 49 (2040BC), and I noticed Joao is plotting against someone. (He had copper)
    I check and it is 100% for certain, me!
    He was Pleased with Washington and had not met Monty yet.
    Spoiler :








    I tried to get cute with a city gift and begging for Hunting to delay the war 10 turns, but it turned into a huge slog after I crushed the 1st stack. (Chose Libraries before Axes)
    My retaliation stalled against Longbows.
    Was delaying the war 13 turns a mistake?
    The city gift also blew my chances of open borders with Monty, which turned into a big deal later. :sad:

    Washington and Monty stayed out of war by sharing Hinduism.
    Joao got the Buddhist shrine.
    Oracle went to Joao in 1600BC for Metal Casting, Joao got Alpha in 1320BC, and Washington got Alpha in 475BC.

    The only reason I'm in the game at all is I got Stone, 230:gold: in fail gold, and got Pyramids just in time before Washington. :)

    My 1st tech trade did not occur until mmm, Turn 110 (125 BC)

    I have Currency, Construction, Literature, and am teching Code of Laws.
    Just need to convert Washington back to Buddhism with missionaries and he will be Friendly with me.
    Gave Washington 2 cities for +3 Liberation bonus.

    The plan right now is to complete Heroic Epic in my capital with the settled Great General and spam 10xp Catapults.
    It was only unlocked when I promoted the 1st Catapult directly to City Raider III. :lol:
    I really need Buddhism in my capital to give the +25% production bonus.
    Will try to goad Joao into a war to get his 22 units moving, or plan on destroying them myself if they remain on my border.

    1AD:
    Spoiler :



    Caste should allow my 2nd Great Person to bulb Philosophy and trade with Washington for monopoly techs.

    It will be hard to compete with the space players who had a peaceful start. :)
    Will try my best to turn it around!

    The mapmaker did a good job on this one for sure.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
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  6. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    :evil:
    :dubious:
    but thanks
     
  7. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    ^ wow ... that's a game ... Joao is nuts, marching through the jungle with 4 cities ... well played, defending against that, getting the Mids, the barb cities.
    Meanwhile in America we have 17 cities :woohoo:

    In my attempt I got a little nervous, regarding Joao. He also went Feudalism very early but I had access to a trade for Monarchy which eventually made things safe. And of course he never actually started plotting.

    :bday: Did you not mention something about farming xp using Madrid's citadel, in the New Game thread ? That's gotta be karma for you and an exciting game


    edit : oops, that was an x-post.
    It's good to have not obvious city locations, Deckhand :goodjob: I'm even fine with being declined marble.
     
  8. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Having Fun?
    Yes!

    Are you keeping up with the Joneses (other countries)? :mischief:
    Somewhat, George is going bananas with cities, and I'm lacking iron, not sure how to handle that. Scoured the tundra to find some lonesome spot but turned out empty handed.

    Did you connect the horse to your east?
    I did, but w/o iron it doesn't really keep me happy. :)

    Did jungle grow over the gems? (I thought of removing jungle from the tile 1N, then forgot).
    No, lucky me! :)

    Did Monte and George go to war?
    No, I'm not sure what they are up to.

    Did you have the good sense to take the Adventurer save? ;)
    No, I'm in for the hard ride.

    ______________

    Joao founded Buddhism and I got it spread to me early on (like turn 20-30?) through the river via Joaos sailing, very nice with the extra happy early on.
    I did get the gold city (gold in second ring), that hill city feels like a good turtle shell against possible agression from George and monty, who are Hindus.
    A city gift got George to pleased, so now I'm almost safe, only Monty to worry about.
    Noone has started plotting yet, which is abit dissapointing.
    Two AIs unmet, and I know for certain one of them is reachable pre-optics, because I got confu spread to me even though noone has CoL, I also have a city with judaism, so I have access to 4 different religions, thinking of some way to utilize that.

    Tanked my economy somewhat, have been really unlucky with trades.
    Self-teched every single tech except for ironworking...
    Got monopoly on CoL and can get monarchy whenever I want, although I'm waiting for MoM to finish so that I can get calendar at the same time.
    Toying with the idea to swap into hindu when I have HR to please Joao.

    1 turn away from CS.
    540 score, 8 cities, 55 pop, 215 BPT @ -33 GPT.

    The plan was to get to conqs and start gobbling up Georges space (everything on flatland), once he and Monty has been at war.
    But with no iron in sight, I'm not sure what I'll do... Perhaps tech straight to cavalry? Or pay through the nose for georges iron...

    Screenshots:
    Spoiler :


    Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0006.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0007.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG
     
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  9. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    :hammer2:

    That was indeed an oversight on my part. If I'm going to give you conquistadors I should also ensure you have iron. There was a recent game where I tried to use currassiers and didn't have iron - so I should have remembered. :cry: Maybe someone will pop it in a mine (in the modern era).

    regenerated until I liked the shape and capital was ok
     
  10. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    Well, then I'll show some pictures too. Main things I missed, compared with similar approaches is the shot at the Pyramids (until someone comes in and shows how he harassed Joao with Woody II axemen).
    The Hanging Gardens would have been a nice boost but are replaceable. Oh, and there's the access to the East coast, too :
    Spoiler :
    Empire :
    Spoiler :



    Can't settle no more. Actually going HAM! on cottages, which may prove troublesome when the time comes to raise an army. Broke 300bpt this turn.
    64/35 signs show culture influence. Joao has 2 cities covering the Western rice, so I might have trouble getting a hold of it.
    I settled cities 5-8 in between The Oracle and Currency. City 9 after Currency. Those are all spots I'd like to develop, except for Murcia, which is just a stone/gold grab, natural frontier, etc.

    Stats and other stuff :
    Spoiler :





    13 workers, an army of warriors. 6 Libraries. I'll get 6 Universities. Running Organized Religion. Monasteries for border control.
    Joao-Wash : pleased with each other
    Wash-Monty : worst ennemies
    Kinda slow played but the computer didn't seem to mind.
     
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  11. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    I had a silver plop rather early on one of my mines, almost felt a bit wrong ~~
    Would be an easy Conqs takeover, if anybody would trade Iron :)
    Not sure what i will do about that yet.
    Spoiler :
     

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  12. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Fine with me, i like the challenge of thinking about storming Joao's Iron, waiting for Cavs or something else ;) Earning those Conqs..
     
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  13. MarleysGh0st

    MarleysGh0st Chieftain

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    Since finishing BOTM 173 earlier this month, I've been following the discussion among the Deity-level players. And by following one of the links in that discussion to Lain's Deity-level games on YouTube, I've finally started to understand how a Cuir rush is possible! So, that my goal in this game, to try out a Cuir (or even better, an Conquistador) rush. But even though he makes it look easy, I'm not going to jump from my Monarch-level play to Deity in one go. I took the Adventurer save.

    By 1 AD, I have 6 cities and the plan seems to be going fine...but where's my iron??? :(

    As for the questions asked in the OP, I did get the horses, the jungle covered the gems, I'm not too far behind in tech, and everyone's been peaceful. And, yes, trying out the new strategy has been fun.
     
  14. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    I really like the fact that there was no easily accessable iron.
     
  15. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    I forgot mentioning some early game details.
    Did one of you also put the warrior on gems, in fear of jungle spread?
    Barbs were challenging, and fogbusting very important. I focused on covering north (jungle) first.

    Both Joao and Washy started plotting very early, i always expected Monty being the target (and he was for both), but still not nice fearing an early dow ;)
    Had no clue where Monty was at that point, maps all from Paper.
    Thinking about it, Joao plotting on him from so far away was dangerous.
     
  16. Ocre307

    Ocre307 Chieftain

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    Went AH very early, and saw we have horses, so decided to go for HA rush. It went... so-so. Managed to capture 2 American cities. One of them by the gold + floodplains. Also got Mids (by settling on the stone) so Police State helped the rush. Made peace at 1AD. On my way to Civil Service and Bureau so I can maybe get a military tech lead to finish off Washington? This is my first game on Deity so not sure how that'll go.

    Spoiler :



     
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  17. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Well, not too bad opening, although an archer popped directly S of Madrid and wandered W near the spot I was to settle pigs/gems. Not having copper up yet I actually just held the settler there - for a couple of turns or so - as I feared the archer would just beeline right in and kill that city. Otherwise, most spawnbusting was effective, and AI archers took care of most barbs. I think I killed a couple over warriors out in the field. But that darn archer really slowed my progress delaying the second city.

    Otherwise, I did get up eight cities, including my 3rd or 4th city near the stone - just beat Wash, but Wash built mids before I even had stone online. Split the clams and corn S of Madrid into two cities. I wanted a ninth city but Joao settled right above the Sugar, in the Dye area...beat me by one turn with a settler party that I'd previously just beat to the wheat/gems in the NW. So I sent that settler down to the crab/fp spot to the SE. Madrid and pigs/gems (barcelona?) mainly on cottages, the rest of the cities food.

    Not bad empire and tech was okay. Unfortunately, with EP on Joao I noticed he was not going for Alpha, so I went for that actually. But Wash got it a couple of turns before me so that hurt some trading. I did get IW/AH from Joao for that. Monty not a factor at all. Joao, Wash, and I are happy Buddhists (Joao HC), with Monty Hindu. Luckily, Monty is blocked by Wash..he did got fist mode for a while but gave up on that.

    The BIG problem is no iron or horse, so I really don't know what to do. I'm probably going Lib Astro instead and look for offshore stuff. I'm sure no problems on get lib in mid-ADs timeframe. My tech rate is good, although no golden age, as I just missed Music guy.

    (yeah, and I'm really regretting not grab those horses to the NE, but I delayed AH for a long time so was never aware of it...but still, not iron!!!)

    answer to questions:

    Having Fun? where's mah freakin' iron Deck!:gripe:
    Are you keeping up with the Joneses (other countries)? Pretty much..and did I mention iron!
    Did you connect the horse to your east? No! and neither iron!
    Did jungle grow over the gems? Nope
    Did Monte and George go to war? No wars at all in my game yet. Monty went fist mode but got scared. Wash is HUGE and so is Joao
    Did you have the good sense to take the Adventurer save? Blasphemy!:cooool:


    Wow, Kait! That is a crazyballs game! :lol:

    BiC with Oracle..wow..never even considered it. Seemed it went much earlier in my game.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
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  18. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    :evil: I should create a Rome game without iron.
    But someone might pop it from a mine.
    Did anyone else get some new resources from a mine? ( :goodjob: Fippy)


    Great Minds think alike!
    So sorry, :( I created botm175 before starting botm173. (waited until it was over to post this) DynamicSpirit and I chose the same civs! :eek2:
     
  19. shakabrade

    shakabrade Praise Vivec!

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    Location:
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    Lucky events: got 1080BC Mids, popped Iron in capital mine in the ADs

    Not so lucky: Lost 3 early warriors to barbs, warriors were at winning odds
    I lost horses because of pursuing Mids at 4 cities
    Monty DoWed me and will take 3 food city I captured from the barbs from me. It is also the only decent northern city spot for galley whipping to get me to the Iron
    island and I haven't whipped galleys in time. :(

    The plan was to pursue the quickest RL victory, but damn Monty postponed one GS and has taken me the best whipping city. I guess this game will end up in bloodshed. Dunno will I make it in time for submission. I am really rushing the game, but the map is so huge.
    Maybe Monty can be a great way to get 40T of shared war for Permanent Alliance. I'll gift my city to Joao the turn before it falls and bring him to Friendly.

    We'll see, still have no clear plan. I have a GA from Music waiting for CS and then I am launching a GA for 400bpt and Lib race. Had to give away too much trades because of war bribe but, oh well.

    Spoiler :


     
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  20. Frederiksberg

    Frederiksberg Chieftain

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    Started the game late but have finally reached 1AD. I got boxed in fairly quickly and have only 7 cities. Feudalism in 4 turns will hopefully open some trading options but I fear that I will not be able to finish the game. Anyway, I'm not in a position to go for space....
     

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