[BTS] BOTM 175 Suryavarman Final Spoiler, game submitted

[Deckhand]

BOTM 175 - Suryavarman II of the Khmer ... Final Spoiler

Did you manage to win? How?
Did you have fun?
Tell us all about your awesome game.


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Posting Restrictions

• Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.

 

[MarleysGh0st]

At 1 AD, I got my first GM. I built the Parthenon for more great person points, then realized I'd made a stupid mistake: when I switched to Pacifism, I hadn't chosen a state religion, so I wasn't getting any bonus points for that! I switched to my own Confucianism, although the AI didn't like that. (They were Hindu to the east and Buddhist to the west.) I got a second GM (which followed the first on a trade mission) then a GE in the capital. Although I extended my Golden Age for another 12 turns using a GS and GA, it ended in 375 before I could pop a third GM. I switched to Police State, Vassalage, Slavery and Theocracy before it ended, to put myself on a war footing. And now the city on the verge of generating that GM found itself without a market, and so unable to run any more merchants.

Despite that setback, I completed gunpowder in 560 (in the midst of a third Golden Age, triggered by the Taj Mahal) and upgraded 15 horse archers to cuirassiers. 17 more (and 2 ballista elephants) waited for their upgrade, which came from a third GM that I built in 640. It was time for war!

I attacked Tokugawa in 580. I captured 4 cities, including his capital. He capitulated in 660.

Wang Kon was the next target, in 740. He also bent the knee, after losing 4 cities, in 800.

On to Kublai Khan, in 860. I had to take 6 of his cities before he'd capitulate, in 980. Now my cuirs had a long, long ride back to my eastern border, to prepare for the next campaign.

I attacked QSH in 1070. I took 5 of his cities, then he capped in 1110. Meanwhile, Mao and Genghis, who were friendly with QSH and had become annoyed with me, did absolutely nothing, just as KK did nothing while his friends fell, earlier. I think all of the random personalities were much more pacifistic than these particular AI would have normally been.

Mao was attacked in 1120. I only had to take 3 of his cities before he bent the knee, in 1140.

Finally, it's time for Genghis. I take 4 cities in the opening turn of the war, then 2 more in the next turn. (Meanwhile I started a fourth Golden Age with a GA, GM, and the GE I had been saving in case the game lasted long enough to build Mining, Inc. This was a waste; I could have used the GM and GE to bulb Constitution for a final boost in score, while the Golden Age was too late to make a difference.) Genghis capitulates in 1170, giving me a Conquest victory in 1180.

So, this was only Noble difficulty (even though the AI got a bit of an extra starting boost), so I suppose someone will have achieved their conquest with horse archers, while still in the the BC. But this still goes onto my scoreboard as the highest score in any BTS game I've ever played, so I'm pretty satisfied with it.

Now, when I consider all the other games I've played in the past decade, that were so slowly won with foot soldiers and siege weapons, because I was afraid to sacrifice more mobile units against unreduced cultural defenses....what a fool I've been!

 

[krikav]

I suppose someone will have achieved their conquest with horse archers, while still in the the BC. But this still goes onto my scoreboard as the highest score in any BTS game I've ever played, so I'm pretty satisfied with it.

You should certainly be proud of that result, it seems like you went well outside of your comfort zone and was rewarded for it, kudos for that!

I did win conquest 75 or 50bc not sure how it counts and although there was a few knights present in the final push, horsearchers was what I won with.
This is my earliest victory ever on any difficulty and the first time I win in BC, so I'm quite satisfied myself.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler Writeup :

This is how I settled.
Angor Thom and Angor Wat I settled aproximatly the same time, one settler from each city. Wat to block of the AIs and gain a good foothold up there, Thom to share the wheat and to claim the horses.
After that it was Nagara down south, mostly to offload the capital from the corn but also to aquire two more happines resources quickly. (Ivory, gold, fur and silver early on, this was really nice! )
Rajavihara was an awesome spot to spam cottages, something that was really needed.

Techpath up to this point was myst (from hut), AH->BW->Agri->TW->Pottery->HBR->Archery->Writing->Math, and now I'm teching toward alfa.
I have a settler standing at the copper, because I got some quest that required me to build 7 stables. I did so and got 7 horsearchers (all with 0 XP).

I declared this turn, I was probably abit too careful and could probably have gone for it earlier. Had 22 HAs at this turn, but some where still in my cities or on their way west.

Had some HAs on his other side too, to quickly take a few cities, and steal his workers.
He had built the oracles, which was really nice!

When he just had one small pop1 city, he was quite generous.

ALL my cities had to work whatever commerce they had, and every city had to build research to reach currency in time before I got into strike. I didn't plan for that, and I guess Tokus westernmost city was a mistake to not raze.
It was quite a pain to have 4+ cities working unimproved riverside plains, and unimproved coast, instead of pigs and corn.
This is the situation when I got into currency.
I did not continue toward CoL, but instead started to snail my way toward Feudalism to enable vassals and to get toward Knights.

Here at T84 I was ready to attack Wang, but when I inspected his cities he had a massive build in Seoul, and he would not trade me Sailing, so he was on his way to complete the great lighthouse.
I consulted Kaitzillas excellent guide, and calcultaed that it was just a few turns away, so I stalled my initial attack.

I then go around and make a few arrogant demands (which they oblige to) i demand Sailing from Genghis, and Polytheism form Kublai.
I also trade my meditation for Qins preisthood.

T85 I trade currency and metalcasting for monarchy+monotheism with Wang. He won't be around long to trade away those techs.

Only now I declare on Wang.

SH and even faster expanding borders doesn't hurt, and GLH will be a life saver economically.

T90 Mao finishes ToAR, which I had chopped 3 forests into.
250 failgold sees me to feudalism.

The 7 unupgraded horsearchers I got from the quest, plus some more that had been built, is now moving toward Qin, and I declare on him T91.

I still have no clue where Genghis is, but it's pouring down missionaries from this jungle, so I move up.

cont...

 

[krikav]

Spoiler Writeup cont T92 :

I do a few reckless attacks, and have bad RNG luck, this forces me to retreat. I did pillage his iron+copper though, to stop an endless flood of spears. And one city I got.

I managed to raze another small city of his, and steal some stray worker and kill some units on flatland, and apparantly that and my huge power rating was enough to make him cave in. Not really deserved as the majority of my army is moving toward Genghis.

The next turn, the other Chineese does something really really smart!

I give them both a bunch of techs and ask in return that they stop trading with the other AIs that are not loyal to the mighty Khmer.

Now my veteran army has scouted Kublais land. The 3 HAs standing on New Sarai I planned on being teleported NW, they got teleported way SE instead, which really caused problems for me. The two HAs that was there was also too reckless, one attacked an Axe on a hill that was guarding two workers, and even though he had 80% odds he died.
The other one stole a worker and just roamed around abit.

T100 I finish hanging gardens in Tokus old capital. Been years since I last built this wonder. It only makes sense when you have alot of cities and usually when you have alot of cities the AIs have already beaten you to it.
I also declare on Toku and 4 HAs finish him of at T101.

At Karakorum, things look really really bleak.
I fall back, try to regroup and whip a bunch of HAs more in Wangs cities. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to do that, as it takes almost 10 turns to get through the jungle.

On this screenshot, you can also see the galleys that I use to ferry over reinforcements. They where not needed though, after killing a few stray missionaries and scouts in the jungle, and making a push toward his holy city he makes a smart choice.
I had 4 injured HAs that probalby could have captured his holy city, but if they would have lost, the opportunity to have him capitulate might have dissapeared.

T107 I declare on Genghis, almost at guilds now. The entire empire is building units to boost my power rating.
T109 I finish pyramids and realize that I had not yet swapped to heraldtary rule, all those early happines resources was apparantly enough.
I swap to police state and vassalage.

I upgraded 5-8 HAs to knights in that southern 1pop city of Genghis. Was abit suprised that he resisted capitulation for as long as he did.

 

[Pangaea]

Won reasonably early too, though nowhere near Kirav's date

Got Lib before 1AD, and won in 1210AD.

Spoiler :

Quite pleased with that result. But it could have been a good deal faster. Got two low-chance GEs. Had only one of them been a GA, I'd have won 3 turns earlier (or more probably 4 turns). Still a nice date for culture, by far the fastest I've had. Post-game I checked the HoF, and it would have been #1 there by a good margin. But of course that's not a fair comparison, as we started with two settlers.

Felt like I lost focus by about 1AD. Wasn't sure when to change civics, and I was pretty late to cathedrals. All cities also lacked hammers, so getting out stuff was slow. None of the other cities had much food to talk about either, so I didn't get a whole heap of GAs.

Fair to say this was a peaceful game. I didn't kill a single unit, nor did anybody else. Genghis, Kublai and Mao plotted a few times, but dropped their plans again and nothing came of it. Genghis and Mao had a decent stack near each other's borders, but never pulled the trigger.

Naturally the score is awful, but I just wanted to try out a somewhat faster game this time. Spent "only" 20-odds hours, which is about 60 less than my normal

Kublai had a lot of land to expand into, but he took his sweet time. Qin got a nice amount by the end as well. I didn't care to try to figure out who the AIs really were, but I reckon they were fairly peaceful. Admittedly I wondered if Wang was a war-monger early on, because he beelined to military techs like HBR and Construction really early. But I guess not? At least nobody did anything war-wise for 5000 odd years. If only humanity could learn something from the Civ4 AI

 

[krikav]

@Pangea thats nice!
I have only done cultural victory as a saving grace in games where I have squandered other opportunities, and then it's usually in the 1800 or so.
I have read a strategy way back that basically says you should get 3-4 religions, build a bunch of cathedrals, have two cites with loads of cottages and a third that is a GPF that you usually also culturebomb.

Starting with two settlers is really quite insane. I wonder how many turns that shaves of any victory condition.. 20-30 turns or so?
I'll ignore that and continue to stay incredibly proud of myself. ^_^

The only thing I saw regarding to the AIs was that Kublai founded a religon and spammed missionaries like there was no tomorrow, figured that could be Isabella or perhaps Gandhi.
Mao could be Mansa, because he is quick to peace vassal iirc.

 

[Pangaea]

Thanks.

As for how much the extra settler saved? 2-3 turns maybe? Let's stroke our ego a bit

 

[nocho]

Got diplo in 1110AD, not sure if given the circumstances it's really fast, but by Pangaea's rule that maybe 2-3 turns were saved from the extra settler, I guess I can be happy about it.

Killed the Japanese and the purple Mongolians who were bribed by Toku, then one of the Chinas peace vassaled and the other one needed some subtle and smooth convincing to join the band. With those two vassals and bio powered farms, enough pop to get the UN win. For diplo, the score wasn't all that bad (274k).

 

[Deckhand]

Got diplo in 1110AD, not sure if given the circumstances it's really fast, but by Pangaea's rule that maybe 2-3 turns were saved from the extra settler, I guess I can be happy about it. ).

Slightly faster than my 1770 win in botm173.

 

[Powerfaker]

@Pangaea
Auch, you beat me by 7 turns, I got 1280AD culture, also played an hour longer . Congrats for you.
I produced plenty of GA's (16) but swinging up culture after Lib seemed to go really slow. Like you mentioned the lack of hammers is troublesome. I stayed long in slavery at the expense of caste to whip stuff. Anyway, mixed feelings about my game.

 

[Unmnemonic]

Eating humble pie and posting a defeat. I was aiming for Cultural, and was mindful to keep my military up and schmooze a couple of allies. I was easily first to Gunpowder but took my eyes off the ball at Curaissier time and let my foes tech them first. I couldn't withstand the Tripartite Alliance of Mao/Ghengis/Wang, beating off three BSODs but losing a city to the fourth, with more city losses on the way. My allies Tokugawa and Qin contributed very little.

For the Cultural victors, I'm wondering how much you rely on religion/Cathedrals? With those early wins it seems not so much, so is it all GP/GAs? What kind of military do you need to prevent a tag team DOW against you?

FWIW I founded three religions (and missed Christianity by 2 turns), but I'm wondering if that's a broken strategy.

 

[krikav]

I don't go for culture often, so no expert at all. But I do rely quite heavily on cathedrals.
3 religions seems like enough, then 6 cities to build temples to ensure at least 6 cathedrals.
The multipliers are really important. But more important still is to get cottages up and matured at a early stage, so that they can do the heavily lifting at 100% culture slider once the cathedrals (and hermitrage) and free speach is in place for the multiplers.

Having a city with loads of food to generate great artists to in the very early stages settle, and later just culture bomb to keep the 3 cities in balance is also important.

As for military, no don't have much military when going for culture.
Either manage diplomacy in such a way that you are safe, or bribe people against each other to keep them busy.

 

[jerza]

Got a lame 1802 AD (t271) diplo victory, got stuck in a war against Japan for way too long (destroyed them 1190 AD), just before I finished them, both Chinas declared on me, so I had to move my army east, then west again, vassaled Korea, then east again, vassaled Qin, and in the middle of a war against Mao and Ghengis I built UN and had enough votes with my two vassals to win.
I definitely could have (and should have) won earlier, but .... I made way too many stupid mistakes (war against Qin unexpectedly halted by an AP resolution, even lost a poorly defended city to the Chinas on one occasion), and also after all the previous games at higher difficulties, I enjoyed this one and built all the wonders I could, even those I basicaly didn't need at all

Spoiler 1802 AD :

 

[krikav]

@jerza I always find it so funny that one wins "diplomatic" victory so often with alot of vassals.

Creds for wrapping up a game where you did mistakes.
I often fail to continue when I do one too many mistakes.

 

[jerza]

@krikav thanks the thing is I tend to play quite quickly (maybe too quickly most of the time), so I ALWAYS make mistakes; I would probably never finish any game if I were to quit any time I overlook something or do a stupid mistake

 

[Anatoly]

So, just finished my game, I think it´s a good one (at least for me) - 1830 space victory After I entered AD, I tried to balance my economy and figure out what to do with my neighbours East Asia was budhist (including me), west Asia was polyreligious, so I decided that Toku will be punished for early arroganceFirst I researched liberty, took railroad and built small cavalry crew.

Spoiler :

So I declare war, bribe other Chinese nations againts each other, and took Toku as a vassal. My next victim was Wan Kong, who was in war with everyone except Kublai...and I had a tanks Ho-ho Took his capital and vassalaged him. After that my warmongering mind was satisfied and I returned to my original plan - space. Research, research, part, research, part, part, research ... ship completed - need to wait 10 turns ... ... .... ... so armored tanks (or whatever it is, I mean tank with 40) started appearing in my cities...declared on Kublai, took 1 city...2...nothing...declare on Qin Shin...took one city...2 city...nothing... why they are so stubborn? so last turn before win I took from kublai another city and finally he capitulated...but I didn´t have enough forces to take another Qin city so I killed every unit I saw and surprisingly, he capitulate too next turn:

Spoiler :

 

[cseanny]

I was corrupted by a blackout and unable to finish a game, however, I still played til 1360BC (I actually recorded everything, even before the blackout) but here are 3 screen shots. The 1st one was from my original game 2 days ago, before the rain blackout. The original recording had the wrong settings so the picture quality is laughable. The 2nd and 3rd screenshots are fine. The Hbr hut came very late (last one I got) and it was right next to an AI, so that was unexpected.

I didn't waste any on Stables because they weren't needed! That seems like an odd comment I guess lol. I stole 4 workers from Japan and had already pillaged his metal earlier and he just kept trying to remake his corn and never improved copper. I was about to Oracle Feudalism and would switch to Vassalage for the extra XP. This meant I'd still have level 5 guys but have around 6 extra HAs! Anyways, at 1360 I already have 14 HA, 9 of which initially attacked Japan (lost 1 HA). By 975BC I'll have 39 HA, and by 825BC I should have 52 HAs. I expect the game will be won by 625-575 BC if played out. Hopefully you can see where I settled a few of my cities in the screen shots. I'm not really in mood after everything for an in depth.

cheers.


https://ibb.co/Xxy7wv0
https://ibb.co/w75wTgT and
https://ibb.co/vYBM1ZG

edit: Added a screen shot of my initial cities. There is one more to the south which claimed silver/2 beaver.

https://ibb.co/9TwPyTG

 

[krikav]

Looks like you had an excellent game going @cseanny ! Curse them rainstorms.
Regarding stables, I felt abit dumb for building 7 of them, they are such a hammersink.
I got some sort of quest, but that only ended up giving me 7 HAs with 0xp that just died. Not really worth it, at least not the way I handled it.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Ooops! I forgot to monitor my land area. Got an unintended domination win in 1720AD, right when I was in the middle of building my spaceship. So instead of a reasonably respectable space date, I'm going to end up with an utterly crap domination date

Nice theme for the game!