[BTS] BOTM 176 State Property Stalin - First Spoiler 1 AD

[Deckhand]

BOTM 176: Stalin. Emperor ... First Spoiler


Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 176, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER

• You have reached at least 1 AD in your game, OR
• You have submitted your entry

Use this thread to tell us what happened in your game, up to 1AD!



Posting Restrictions

• Please do not disclose ANY events or information gained post 1 AD.
• Please do not reveal your final result if that happened after 1 AD.
• Please do not discuss the location of resources that may not show up before 1 AD (Iron is OK, coal and oil are not)
• Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games

 

[High King J.J.]

Playing this as Arya Stark who cut off Stalin's face after executing him for crimes against humanity. The Russian people are perplexed by the absence of paranoia and sadism they had gotten used to but they follow Arya who wears the slowly decaying face of a mass murderer. The people can't understand why their leader is not attacking every neighbour in sight. After all conquest, ethnic cleansing and national extermination are what Russia does best. Actually it's all they know how to do, so they aren't flourishing under more enlightened rule. We shall see if Arya Stark can lead them to a worthy end or if they will instead receive an end they deserve. It's been a while since Arya passed 1 AD so she can't recall everything that happened or what happened after 1 AD. She founded 2 religions while a certain Netherese neighbour has so far taken all the rest. Still Christianity is the national faith of the eastern end of the map, with the shrine and Apostolic Palace making it more appealing. Butt-ism is what the other heathens use for religion, if any. Eventually I expect the Netherese will switch to free religion and lose the diplomacy bonuses while Christianity will spread at will. Barbarians have been remarkably few, only some harmless stray warriors or archers. Apparently they heard Russians are in the game so they know they can't really compete in barbarism.
To be (dis)continued...?

 

[nocho]

Fun game so far. A bit of a builders game till now, it's been peaceful and just 9 cities but decently sized, the first 5 have an average of 10 pop. Oracled currency (didn't dare to go for CS) and got MoM, GLib and Kremlin. Joao snatched the mids for a lot of fail cash, preparing an elepult army now to wrest that from his hands. Given the greenness of the map and state property, will try to get a decent space date probably.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I settled 3S, getting another pig, nice river tiles and 2x forested ivory. City 2 grabbed the silver in its 2nd ring and built the Stonehenge to pop borders
Stonehenge is questionable but actually pretty sweet, once it's in. City 3 grabbed the copper and then I started to slowly build axemen.
Around 1700-1500 BC, I DoWed both Willem and Joao to get workers and prevent Willem from improving his Bronze.
Then I sort of choked them both, stealing about 10 workers in total and getting xp for my horde of AGG Axemen.
Seeing how the AIs weren't building anything, I researched Priesthood before Writing and Oracled Metal Casting, 1200 BC :

Spoiler :

Only 4 cities. 1 settler on the way. I'm late to cottaging.
You can see Joao's culture on the bottom of that screen. It prevents from settling the spot I wanted. So I actually razed 2 of his newest settlements to settle lategame powerhouses (the mark for city 5 will be a Globe Theatre).

I settled some more. Given how little maintenance we're actually paying, I probably should have settled even more. But at least I've got a standing army.
I did research Masonry very late. I think that was a mistake. I could almost 1 turn the Pyramids in Novgorod (also Oracle city) but I did that in 425 BC.
Moscow built the Hanging Gardens for 8 other cities. That was a good grab.
I'm actually quite backwards, not yet having CoL. I have just gotten Litterature, however. Stone and marble are secured.

I did take Alphabet for peace with Joao after I secured my southern borders. And that allowed me to turn my troops around and actually capture a couple of Dutch cities.
Willem founded Buddhism and Judaism. My second GP was a prophet, so I shrined Judaism for an exciting 3gpt but I intend to spread the religion and Wall Street the place.
Amsterdam will fall next turn (got a couple of Catapults). I'll unlock gems giving me +2 happies with forges. I'll take peace for Monarchy with him and then I'll probably go kill Persia. I'm already at twice their power. Probably resume the war against Portugal as well. Now that I've got Catapults, I'll do both wars at the same time.
I should research Sailing, I think Calendar is up for trading.
And there's an AI I didn't meet, I'll build a couple of chariots.

I played the economic game a little loose because I mostly managed my units. Also, I'm paying serious maintenance.
So... 1 AD :
Land :

Spoiler :

Stats :

Spoiler :

I'll probably remain under the Domination land limit and go for higher tech.

 

[krikav]

I was abit confused about how to play this, but since we had state property and it was a rather low difficulty, I thought it was just to expand like wildfire.
But I overdid it abit and completely wrecked my economy.
T86

Spoiler :

Was just planning on grabbing every piece of land I could before the AI took it.
WvO had alfabet and I was going to get math (for chops) and put some turns into alfabet to get it from him. But somewhere halfway into math I realized that no... I'm in trouble. So I started spamming cottages everywhere, whipping libraries and hiring scientists.
At this point, I also started to stop working pigs for unimproved riverside and unimproved coast.

Note that I did have 3 more settlers. They got to stand around until currency.

A few turns later I did get math and put some beakers into alfabet, when I could build research I reached currency suprisingly quickly.

1AD situation:

Spoiler :

Got MoM and ran a GA with my first scientist, have been building wonders for failgold but I have finished ToAR in the south
With 3 pigs, rice and banana I think that can become quite a good spot for great people.
Settled the northern gold/stone city like a idiot with stone in third ring so lost pyramids and will likely lose hanging gardens too.

Not sure how to proceed, but I'll likely just continue teching and chop into wonders for failgold.

 

[krikav]

@Deckhand
I had accually played until T122, loaded old saves to take screenshots and when I tried to load the T122 save again game crashed.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Interesting situation you ran into, krikav ! That 725 BC screen... so many forests... It's always exciting when the shadow of the strike looms around the corner.
You really need a whole lot of workers when every tile takes 8+ turns to improve (also need something to do with the hammers). Maybe should have expanded along your East river, first.

Anyway, your game seems well in hand. Losing on the Pyramids like that is a pity. Given the amount of food there is around, it might hurt you worse than the over-expansion / lack of workforce.
I agree, though, these settings can be disorienting. I'm very happy to have produced an army. I thought I had like 10 axemen scattered all over the place and when I checked there were 20+... The production comes out of nowhere.

I hope your savefile is ok.

 

[jerza]

forgot to take 1AD screenshot, 3 turns later (AD 75) it's 5 cities and not really sure how to play this

Spoiler AD 75 :

 

[lymond]

I writing this a tad blind, since its been a week since I played the first session and I haven't opened the save to review. I think I pretty much settled in place and then W near the copper/pigs.

Harassed Willie mercilessly for both workers and to choke off that copper (and his horses) But what I did a bit differently from some, it appears, is followed aggressively with some Axes and took him out..netting Dam and 2 other cities.

Other than that I expanded to cut-off Darius and Joao as much as possible. Sent 1 warrior continuously West, but took quite some time to meet the other characters..but have met everyone. I guess this was a rainforest or modified rainforest map.

Lost out Oracle to someone.

Ha..one thing that continuously screwed me forgetting about the SP bonus on axe whips..ugh..and I kept forgetting.

Nabbed a barb city to the SW near the lake...there is another one just south of that linked by a road that I will take soon.

It's 25BC with 13 cities (14th very close). yeah...economy is not spectacular and teching has been relatively slow so far. But Elies are in and I'm working toward Music. About 650 gold in bank from ToA fail gold. Surprisingly Mids is not finished and I have been slowly building it for some time in Petes (copper/pigs). A few chops went into it and I expect to whip it as soon as I can, but it could go any turn now.

I've put quite some extra hammers into Itza as well in many cities - it is still not complete.

I've been whittling at Kremlin in The Hague (horse/rice/pigs SE of Amsterdam), just in hopes of someday completing it eventually, but even with IND it is very slow without stone, but there is stone to the N I hope to get soon.

Joao is pretty solid here ..I'm debating b/w him or Darius for my attack. Joao ain't too happy with me right now cause of my Dutch shenanigans (shared religion), but he will be some battle. He has decent land though. Darius a bit better for trading.

Edit: ok..I opened the game for some pics. Actually close to 15 cities.

Axes near Hun to SW....

Spoiler land :

Not super great tech situation. Still don't have Alpha , but honestly would rather have Currency now than Alpha.

Spoiler tech :

@jerza

Spoiler :

hey man, you really need to expand a bit faster in every game really. Just way too much production on this map not to have more cities by now. Too many unchopped forests. It's not necessarily that you need to have as many as me or krikav or whomever, but you do need more than you have by now.

Markets??? no no no no

Again, I encourage you to spend some time in Strategy & Tips forum. We will get you up to speed quickly and you will be far less confused.

krikav - really good job of limiting Joao's expansion...he can be really annoying and become a beast.

 

[jerza]

@lymond

Spoiler :

You're definitely right about the need to expand faster, and yes, I remember I have read the "never build marketplaces, courthouses, .... " advice before (though I still feel it's a kind of pitty that some buildings are completely excluded from the game this way )...
The thing with Tips and Strategy forum is that it's a bit of a mess... I have read most of the basic guides, but generally the stuff that's there varies in age (ie relevance) and quality and I find it a bit difficult to find what I'm looking for.
Obviously, my biggest problem at the moment is the early expansion phase (and diplomacy related stuff such as tech trading). And the obvious solution would be either a shadow game and/or watching hours of YT playthroughs by AZ or Lain, but unfortunately I currently don't have time for either. (I have read one of the shadow game threads in which you gave a lot of valuable advice, but in that particular game there was a lot of free space and no early war and in many respects the game seemed not very typical..)
Anyway, thanks for your comments

 

[lymond]

@jerza

Spoiler :

You're definitely right about the need to expand faster, and yes, I remember I have read the "never build marketplaces, courthouses, .... " advice before (though I still feel it's a kind of pitty that some buildings are completely excluded from the game this way )...

I would not say they are completely excluded in the game, it is just that a lot of buildings are situational. CHs can be helpful when your empire gets very large.

Marketplaces are something that you might build late game ..like going for Space..in some cities when you can build them in 1 or 2 turns. (You can also capture them). But they are very very expensive buildings early. Take your Petes for example. You have 5 cities and desperately need more. Pete's is Size 7 with lots of forests. Workers could be chopping some of those forests while you build a settler for 1 or 2 turns and 3pop whip it into a new settler while chops come in. So basically you could have 2 new settlers in 2 or 3 turns. And you could have done this quite a bit sooner.

The thing with Tips and Strategy forum is that it's a bit of a mess... I have read most of the basic guides, but generally the stuff that's there varies in age (ie relevance) and quality and I find it a bit difficult to find what I'm looking for.

The articles subforum has some dated stuff, but I highly recommend the more recent "Know your Enemy" guide. The article is based completely off AI coding, and very helpful in understanding both diplomacy and how AIs react to things.

But mainly I meant just being a bit active over in the main S&T forum, following the games/discussions and definitely running at least one shadow game (more below)

Obviously, my biggest problem at the moment is the early expansion phase (and diplomacy related stuff such as tech trading). And the obvious solution would be either a shadow game and/or watching hours of YT playthroughs by AZ or Lain, but unfortunately I currently don't have time for either. (I have read one of the shadow game threads in which you gave a lot of valuable advice, but in that particular game there was a lot of free space and no early war and in many respects the game seemed not very typical..)

I understand time constraints. I would emphasize one very important thing with Shadow games. It's not about winning or even shadowing to completion. It's mainly about just practicing and learning the early game. Laying a foundation that you can build all your real games from. You can start one and just play a bit when you have some time, then come back to it and play it again. Short turnsets are recommend anyway...like 10 turns at most...so you can play in small sessions and then read advice as it is given. Things will start translating to your GOTMs games quickly and I think you will see the game from a new perspective.

Some thing for videos really. You don't need to watch the entire series. Just glance at the first video or two. What I used to do, if the map was available to play, is play along in small chunks simulating what AZ or Lain were doing in game.

Anyway, I realize time for gaming can always be an issue, but even just a little concentrated effort to learn basic mechanics will go a long way.

 

[jerza]

@lymond

Spoiler :

I will have more free time in August, so I might try a shadow game then
and once again thanks for your clarifications

 

[Kaitzilla]

Whoa, what a curveball map by Pangaea.
A rainforest map with all the jungle replaced, or a modified great plains map? Lot of work!

Settled on the bananas for fast 12 turn Worker, and that was a big mistake once I saw all the forests and food.
Got bronze and border pops by chopping Stonehenge in my 2nd city.


chop, Chop, CHOP
Unlimited WonderBread.

Can easily 2-pop whip a pair of Axes with only 2 put into them thanks to State Property.
Went for a huge empire since there are no distance costs.
Lots of wonders and fail gold.

Oracled Aesthetics after consulting some tea leaves for 10 minutes.
The fail gold was there, Theology was only mildy appealing with the Dutch founding Buddhism, Metal Casting was nice but premature, Alpha was a matter of time on emperor with Joao and Darius, and anything better was too far away.
Parthenon fail gold paid for a LOT.
Fast Literature got Heroic Epic, National Epic, and Great Library up by 500BC.

I steamrolled my way with mostly axes to 20 cities, 40 workers, mids, kremlin, hagia, and a few others wonders.
1st Great Prophet made a shrine, 2nd Great Engineer bulbed Machinery for those sweet 3 1 watermills.
Great Scientist and Great Artist are on ice.

2 gift cities to Joao (+3 Liberation) and shared religion got him to Friendly in time to trade for lots of tech trades.

Empire 1AD

Spoiler :

Will try to go for space as fast as possible.

The nice thing with Kremlin is Workers can be 2-popped into a huge overflow.
Kremlin is also hot for 2-pop whipping back-to-back Horse Archers and Catapults I think.
Once I get to Knights I'll complete forges and 2-pop whip them. Maybe some police state for 70 per population when whipping military units.

Really a state property game for sure.

 

[krikav]

Wow, thats really nice @Kaitzilla !
I thought I was doing spectacular with 15 cities and you call that and show 20.
Makes me realize that I clearly underbuilt workers.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

40 workers, wow ! That's cool ! 2 dead AIs... This is going to be explosive.
I think you were right to give priority to wonders AND complete the Kremlin early. Hagia Sophia is also looking hot. Parthenon is/will be great with that many cities.

Did you move your capital, Kaitzilla ? Or is it a tongue-in-cheek move that Moscow is size 4 ??
Nice spread on the religion, too.
I'll follow you up to space. I don't think my priorities have been tight enough to get there first.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Did you move your capital, Kaitzilla ? Or is it a tongue-in-cheek move that Moscow is size 4 ??
Nice spread on the religion, too.
I'll follow you up to space. I don't think my priorities have been tight enough to get there first.

Still the original capital.
Mostly using it for giant whips from the bureau bonus.
A bit embarrassing it only has 3 improved tiles.

I keep wanting to move my capital to my largest city, but I never spawn a Great Merchant so there isn't a need yet.
Another city has 50 hammers in a palace and a decent area, but again wonder fail gold keeps stopping me because it is more appealing.

I probably won't move the capital until Moscow is radioactive from whip anger.

Thanks on the religion.
Thinking about AP for holy wars since only Joao and I have buddhism.

See you in space BIC!

 

[lymond]

Splendiferous start, Kait!

I too suspected this might be a modified Great Plains map. Although the NE section of the map would have been extremely modified. I guess Lakes or even Highlands is a possibility as well.

so...um...maybe I don't go Space

 

[krikav]

The collection of pigs and abundant forests had me thinking about borealis with deer/forest everywhere.
I built Haga sophia as soon as I could too (Or I think I 6pop whipped it in my GPF), it gave a nice boost to workers.

Alot of wonders that doesn't make any sense in normal gameplay is more appealing in a setting like this one.

 

[Deckhand]

chop, Chop, CHOP

Do you wait for Mathematics to chop?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Do you wait for Mathematics to chop?

If there is a worthy goal, I will frequently chop before math.
Especially for settlers that can get more forests.

3 early chops get 96/120 in Stonehenge.