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[BTS] BOTM 193: Ramesses, Warlord - First Spoiler - 1AD

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by Noble Zarkon, May 25, 2020.

  1. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Use this thread to tell us what happened in your game, up to 1AD. How did you deal with the Minor Civ, how did you find playing such a luxurious start?

    Reading Requirements
    If you are participating in BOTM 193, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER
    • You have reached at least 1 AD in your game, OR
    • You have submitted your entry

    Posting Restrictions
    • Do not disclose ANY events or information gained post 1 AD.
    • Do not reveal your final result if that happened after 1 AD.
    • Do not discuss the location of resources that may not show up before 1 AD (Iron is OK, coal and oil are not)
    • Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games
     
  2. Fine_Distinction

    Fine_Distinction Warlord

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    That is such a nice, relaxing game, good way to recover after brutal Tokugawa BOTM #192, Thank you very much, @Noble Zarkon! Since it was such a low level, industrious leader, both stone and marble in the BFC or nearby, I indulge my wonder-builder tendencies, delayed slightly a second city to found religion in the capitol and generally built a really strong buro cap hoarding wonders. Will have to compare with others to see how it worked, I may overdid it a bit, at 1AD I have only 8 cities with 46 pop, while in BOTM 191 (Immortal) I had already 11 at this point. On the other hand, I see well poised now for an explosive growth, and ruling the world :D:D:D

    Canaanites prove much less problem than I anticipated, just killed one of my WBs. I wonder how it was in your game?

    I have also question about Canaanites, @NobleZarkon. I thought that they would be a minor civ, as described in civipedia. But civipedia says minor civs start with ~5 techs, including mining. I put a lot of EP on Lord Cronos, and at some point later, I saw them researching Mining. :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: So they did not start with that? Or some weird game bug?
     
  3. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    I had no idea they should have started with all these techs, sorry! They were manually created after I generated the map.
     
  4. Fine_Distinction

    Fine_Distinction Warlord

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    Not a problem, I was just wondering. BTW, can anybody manually add a minor civ in WB? I was always curious how you guys create these maps for BOTMs ...
     
  5. Xcalibrator

    Xcalibrator Ultraviolet Catastrophe

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    I took the "Deity" :) save and settled in place. Around 1AD I have 7 cities (2 on the islands with seafood to the north) and 38 pop. My second city was N of the crabs to block Willem, and then I prioritized settling toward the NE, trying to block off Mansa, but that didn't stop him from taking the eastern horse/banana and wine/banana sites (and settling on the hill for the latter, missing the fish :rolleyes:). He also got the dyes to the north, which is fine; he can chop all that jungle for me. Willem is confined to his peninsula with only 2 cities. Rather than settling the islands to his southeast, he tried to break out and attacked my capital twice--it was kinda scary the first time, but he lost pretty much all his units both times. I just got Construction/cats and plan to remove the pest very soon.

    The AIs are ahead of me with Calendar, Poly, Aesth, and Monarchy or Currency. Mansa has 6 cities, and Chronos yet lives. Scores are Mansa 1100, me 820, Wm 450. I built SH 2840 and the Mids 800, got a Great Prophet, and settled him. Oracle went 1520 and GLH 1440. I don't remember who built those ones, but Mansa has several wonders, which will come in handy when I capture them. :backstab: Currently we're Hindu buddies. Lovely map with lots of resources, providing hope for a win--just the thing to heal the psychological wounds Tokugawa inflicted on me last game. Thank you, NZ!
     
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  6. Fine_Distinction

    Fine_Distinction Warlord

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    Hi Xcalibrator, thanks for the report :thumbsup:. I also needed to heal after Toku, so chose Warlords save :egypt:. Sounds like a completely different game on "deity", Willem never dreamt of attacking me on Warlord and I was getting any wonder I wanted, etc. But I do not have much more cities or wonders than you - and you will get some more from Mansa - so I guess I am not doing that well :undecide:
     
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  7. Frederiksberg

    Frederiksberg Deity

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    I also retired the Toku game in the BCs and was looking for revenge by selecting the Deity game. Obviously it's "Deity light" with no barbs and both gold and silver in the BFC but still more challenging than immortal in my opinion.

    My opening was very similar to @Xcalibrator. Settled in place and settled second city to block Willem from expanding north. I prioritized tech and expansion trying only to build TGW (In order to farm a GSpy). Got beaten to it but got some nice fail gold which allowed me to tech Currency (ca 1000 BC) at the exact turn when Willem had moved a stack next to my border (He had been in war prep mode for a while even though he was pleased). I dodged the DOW by asking Willem for 10 gold and the red fist disappeared (war prep indicator). I was able to trade Currency for CoL with Mansa and started farming a GSpy while rushing to Construction. I had earlier on secured the copper/silver/crab site to the NE which turned out to be fortunate because no iron was available and this allowed me to start a build up of an axe/cat army supplemented with a few war chariots. Declared around 350 BC and took Willems two cities including the buddhist holy city, which was core to my spying plans. At 1 AD I have 10 cities and one more will be settled on the southern fur island next turn. A GSpy will be born in Memphis next turn and the plan is to steal a lot of techs from Mansa while expanding to some of the islands to the NE and the south. Mansa is very advanced so it doesn't seem advisable to use my axe/cat army against him.
     
  8. Mitchum

    Mitchum Deity

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    I took the Contender save. I settled in place and figured I'd be able to deal with all of the :yuck: with health resources and a granary. When I saw the Willem was so close and Mansa was nearby (easy tech trades), I built 3 warriors after my worker and sent them south. I captured Amsterdam (the Hindu holy city) on T30 which was only defended by a single warrior (not surprising considering this is Warlord level). After this, my plan was peaceful REX, grab a few wonders and trade techs with Mansa. I pulled off the CS Slingshot on T77 (950 BC), got the Mids on 91 (600 BC) and the GLH (don't recall what turn it was but I would have been fine with the fail gold too).

    At 1 AD I have 9 cities (+1 settler), Education (5 universities built and Oxford in 5ish turns), Optics (2 caravels carrying a Hindu missionary each headed in opposite directions in search of the other AI), Literature (planning on the GLib in the capital after Oxford) and HG in 3 turns. Mansa has 3 cities and has researched all of the religious techs for me (minus PH) plus Hunting, Archery, Monarchy and Aesthetics.
     
  9. Fine_Distinction

    Fine_Distinction Warlord

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    When I saw Willem so close nearby - and his single warrior leaving - I figure out using EP screen that he has only 1 warrior and will not be able, based on advancement of his production and available tiles - to build a new warrior to defend, so I declared on him, hoping to take his empty capital with a single warrior. But his capital was not empty, there was a fortified warrior there! I initially thought, since it was very early, that there was another land path to his capitol, which his returning warrior would take, but there was not. I wonder what happened :confused: The moment I saw his warrior leaving I decided to attack and marched my warrior there, the only path for his returning warrior would be next to my borders, I would see him for sure, I was watching every turn. I am also confident I know how to work EP and demographics info, it was very early on, I knew exactly what techs and pop he had, he had just one warrior for sure. The "other" (nonexistent) warrior also never returned confirming that he never existed :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye:

    Was a big disappointment, would be really cool to use EP and demo hacking for such a daring attack :D

    Anyway, did not cost me much probably, just lost early trade routes with Willem and he was building more units, so I wait until cats, I think, to take him comfortably. Settled only one other, sucky city, would be better to do what you did with 3 warriors. Still not sure how this warrior could teleport back?:confused:
     
  10. Mitchum

    Mitchum Deity

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    I assumed that all AI started with 2 warriors, one to explore and one to fortify the capital. I'm not sure about this but a test game and then using world builder could prove it one way or the other.

    I was not that methodical by monitoring his production or espionage. I needed something to build while I grew to 3 pops so that I could work the corn, cows and gold while building the first settler so I built warriors rather than a barracks. If he had more than a single warrior there I would have backed out. As it was, it took all three warriors to kill his one even though I had 58% odds on my second attack.
     
  11. Fine_Distinction

    Fine_Distinction Warlord

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    No, on Warlords they start with 1 warrior, I confirmed in WB also. In WB they often build a warrior when the first one goes scouting, by in my game, Willem went WB first and did not have a 2nd warrior when I attacked.

    You got lucky he did not got a 2nd warrior, when I was doing world builder tests they often build another one. Willem is CRE, so he is getting +40% soon, and after that, with 2 fortified warriors, you have less than 1/3 chance even with 5 warriors.

    With 1 fortified warrior, your chances attacking with 3 are still around 2/3, so not a sure thing, but worked out for you. :thumbsup: Look like I followed similar plan to you, SIP and build a bunch of warriors after an initial worker. I am not sure if I would attack with 3, though, risk of loosing your whole "army" is considerable. And if it was buddhist holy city, culture can be even more than +40%? Of course, temptation is also bigger with a holy city :D

    As to Willem "teleporting" warrior, of course I do not believe that AI cheats. I think :)confused:) what must have had happened is that I got too excited and misinterpret warrior coming back as walking away?:confused: Have too check if he has anyway enough chances to get back. But in my experience, demo screen never lies and is your best friend :D Anyway, I am to busy now playing the lockdown game and finishing this one :egypt:
     
  12. Mitchum

    Mitchum Deity

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    I was committed to the attack on this one. I forgot about this until just now but Willem's wandering warrior was near my borders on the turn I DOW'd and he was one move from taking my undefended capital when I took his. So if I stopped the attack, it would have been game over for me.

    The reward turned out to be worth the risk this time since I ended up with a 3-pop holy city (free border pop) and two seafood already netted. I guess Willem must have gone built a warrior and 2 wbs as his first three builds (no worker). One of his wbs was in his capital the turn I DOW'd since I could see it from the hill. Luckily it netted one of the seafood rather than staying in his capital after the DOW.

    Had I lost the Battle of Amsterdam, I would have had several hours of my life back. ;) As it stands now, I still have several more hours to finish the game off.
     
  13. Fine_Distinction

    Fine_Distinction Warlord

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    Yeah, Willem never build a worker, just WBs and another warrior at some point. When I DoW him early with my single warrior and his capital turned out to be defended there was nothing for me to even pillage ;(

    Yeah, and I actually forgot that leaving your capital undefended was another risk. But you could see his warrior approaching for several turns? Iirc I was building 4 warriors straight in this game while growing so should not be a problem for me to finish #4 early, especially with the good production we were getting from the capitol.
     
  14. Fine_Distinction

    Fine_Distinction Warlord

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    I play those game to win in civ sense first and only maximize score if I am winning safely. But if you were willing to risk it for a game-breaking bonus it makes a total sense to go all in (and retire if the dice rolling gods were not kind to you :lol:).
     
  15. MarleysGh0st

    MarleysGh0st Prince

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    I took the Contender save. By 1 AD, I've built seven cities, completed the Pyramids, and I've conquered the Dutch by capturing Amsterdam, their only city.
     
  16. Mitchum

    Mitchum Deity

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    Was this an early or later war? I'm interested to know how long Willem stayed at one city. If he expanded to the islands to his south, conquering him would have been a bigger pain but luckily you caught him before that happened.
     
  17. MarleysGh0st

    MarleysGh0st Prince

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    It was a late war, by Warlord standards. I declared on him in 375 BC, but he had more defenders that I expected, so I didn't take the city until 25 BC. I have no idea why he hadn't expanded.
     
  18. Mitchum

    Mitchum Deity

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    Wow. Poor Willem was really nerfed in this game. I wonder if that was intentional by the map maker or if it was simply an act of God Sid
     
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  19. nocho

    nocho Deity

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    I took the contender save, with this start might have had a decent shot at deity, but preferred something easy after the Toku debacle. Seems I had a similar game to Mitchum, also SIP and early conquest of Amsterdam, though I "overdid" it with 4 warriors instead of 3. :lol: Built SH, GLib, Oracle (CS), Parthenon and MoM in Thebes and Mids, GLH and Colossus in Amsterdam. Tech is up to Education, Music and Optics, work just started on Oxford (due in 5) and the first caravels. 13 cities, 87 pop, 9 workers, will need more of those to cut the jungles. Will likely go for space, seems like a fun setup to try for an early-ish date.
     
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  20. Fine_Distinction

    Fine_Distinction Warlord

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    Wow, and I thought I built a lot of wonders :lol:

    Was Amsterdam still protected by a single warrior when you marched your 4?
     

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