[BTS] BOTM 196 - final spoiler, game submitted

[Noble Zarkon]

Use this thread to tell us what happened in your game, particularly anything after 1AD. Did you manage to win? If so, how?

Reading Requirements
If you are participating in BOTM 196 then you MUST NOT read this thread unless

• You have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions

• Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.

 

[Tobiyogi]

So culture it was. Victory in 1515 AD. In my personal experience, it is a record, as I never really manage to pull it off before 1600 AD, but still, it could have been better in that particular game.
The three cities reached L-Status in a similar time frame which is good. And I got all the Great Persons I wanted, lots of artists towards the end of the game, and 4 Engineers in the early to mid-game. (3 of them built Sistine, N. Epic, Taj, one started a Golden Age....)

If I could talk about any problem here, it was the lack of marble and a bit bad luck with the Cathedrals. My first religion Hindu needs marble for the "Cathedral", all the other cathedrals can be built with Stone, copper, etc... But taoism and confu didn't spread so easily, so I had only a Jewish Synagogue in all of my L-cities because I was reluctant to build that Hindu-thing w/o helper resource / forests (would have taken 16-18 turns, which is a LONG time that you can spend with buidling culture).

I finally got more cathedrals, but quite late, so it was a late-game speed run. For comparison: My second/third L-city had only 800/1700 points in 200AD, and 4000/6000 points in 880 AD. That was also a bit part of my strategy: putting all the modifiers in place before running nothing else than culture / artists / pacifism. But the cathedrals should normally come earlier....

At the end of the game, Ragnar was my most dangerous culture-opponent with 4000 points in Nidaros

Yeah it's true, we do not play against the AI here, but against other participants. Looking forward to seeing other results.

 

[MarleysGh0st]

Continuing from 1 AD...

MM had lost Djenne to barbs and hadn't moved to take it back. My axemen did the job in 50 AD, and to my pleasant surprise I discovered that this was the Jewish holy city. So now I had three native religions. I'd add Taoism to that list in 400. (Buddhism would later spread to one of my cities, but would play no role in my victory strategy.)

I used a GP for the Kashi Vishwanath, built the Mausoleum, then used a GP for one golden age and built the Taj Mahal for second, long golden age.

I ended up researching up to Democracy, when I finally switched to 100% culture in 1220, running Universal Suffrage, Free Speech, and Caste System to generate as many GA as possible. Once I had eight of them, (not counting the starting two that I had culture-bombed in the BC), I culture-bombed them all to win a Cultural Victory in 1695. Well behind Tobiyogi's pace.

So, what mistakes did I make? One was a simple one; I traded for Economics in 1250, then neglected to switch to Free Market until one of the AI urged me to do so in 1615.

More fundamentally, I think I concentrated too much on the tech path that gave me the Liberalism bonus in 1030, and only then researched Music in 1040. I needed to start building my cathedrals much earlier. And I completely forgot to build the National Epic. Temporarily switching from Caste System back to Slavery to whip those Cathedrals might have been worthwhile, too.

Incidentally, MM built the AP (Christian) in 1040. He had Christianity spread to all of the AI at that point, but he never made an effort to spread the faith to me. It was nice not having to worry about my victory being stolen away!

Oh, well. Thanks for the game!

 

[nocho]

So it was a bit of a slog, but I managed domination in 1795AD. This could have been sooner if I had remembered earlier that this was a terra map and that there was an entire other continent to be settled. Now I didn't do astro for waaay too long, it was only when I saw I was owning like only half the land percentage that I expected, that I remembered. Then again, thankful for another continent because it does take a lot of patience to flip cities.

Anyway, so the late game saw the rush with settlers to the New World, losing some of the eagerly settled outposts to barbs, seems the great wall won't function on another continent. So I moved over some rifles, also to dislodge barb settlements defended by longbows.

In any case, the bulk of the game was spent spreading culture through espionage. Ended up pulling 1100+ EPs per turn without the spy slider nor golden ages, without specifically hiring many spies either (I let the governors decide). That was more than enough for my steady stream of spies, it seems I ended up building 270 of them. So the spreading went well, the actual flipping felt slower than it should have. Truth is Justinian after losing Constantinople and Tessalonica parked a boatload of units in his other cities where I had 60+% of culture, but 0 or near 0% revolt odds. Nidaros never flipped either. I did get some cities through the AP, although don't quite get how the mechanics work of which cities are up for reassignment. Justinian's cities were never on the list for example.

Mansa at some point did need my protection in this always peace game. Of course gladly took it, but kept on pushing my culture on him regardless.

Well, certainly an interesting game, thanks!

Spoiler Final land :

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Justinian's cities were never on the list for example.

Was he a Full Member of the AP?

 

[MarleysGh0st]

Wow! Congratulations on the peaceful domination, nocho! 270 spies, huh?

Now I wonder if anyone is trying for a peaceful conquest?

 

[nocho]

Was he a Full Member of the AP?

Yes he was. Is it only cities from non-full members or something?

Wow! Congratulations on the peaceful domination, nocho! 270 spies, huh?

Now I wonder if anyone is trying for a peaceful conquest?

Well, WastinTime did that with the original, so I guess he doesn't need to prove that again. But he may...

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Yes he was. Is it only cities from non-full members or something?

According to the AP Guide:-

6. Assign city from X to Y:
Prerequisite: Civ X must be a Voting Member, but not Full Member, and Civ Y must be a Full Member. The two civs must not be at war. Civ Y must have a higher culture on the city plot (not the city itself) than Civ X does.
If passed the city is transferred intact with all buildings but no units.

 

[nocho]

Ok, that certainly makes sense, thanks for sharing.

The AP was in judaism and indeed never saw cities on the list from full members Justinian and Monty, but did get from Mansa, Khan and I think Ragnar. If I would have known, would probably have focussed first on somebody other than Justinian, who had founded the religion.

 

[Tobiyogi]

So, what mistakes did I make? One was a simple one; I traded for Economics in 1250, then neglected to switch to Free Market until one of the AI urged me to do so in 1615. !

Depending on the situation, it is not necessarily a mistake. If you have 2 Trade routes (no harbor, ToA, or similar), a free artist from Mercantilism will produce more culture than being in Free Market and converting commerce > culture, I tested it once. But I had Sistine Chapel, I guess. And of course, the additional artist generates lots of GP points, especially with our leader here.

 

[Tobiyogi]

I have just discovered a recently re-published old treasure in the Botm archives.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...ve-or-experience-fresh-sgotm-goodness.649315/

After a closer look at it, I decided to play it only on Monarch, but with the initial comittment to Hinduism (founding it, converting immediately into it and never leaving it again). If you do so, I don't want to spoiler much, it will probably turn out into something like "Gandhi Always War", which is a nice synthesis of our last two Gotms. The map looks evil and intriguing, I like it so far.

 

[MarleysGh0st]

Depending on the situation, it is not necessarily a mistake. If you have 2 Trade routes (no harbor, ToA, or similar), a free artist from Mercantilism will produce more culture than being in Free Market and converting commerce > culture, I tested it once. But I had Sistine Chapel, I guess. And of course, the additional artist generates lots of GP points, especially with our leader here.

Well, I had Sistine Chapel, too, but I hadn't switched to Mercantilism, either. So now you've convinced me I made an even bigger mistake!

 

[kcd_swede]

Culture victory 1660AD, no espionage usage, standard Jususin type. Score 39900 or so. I was worried that there wouldn't be enough land, but I should not have been. Slowed my economy too much by over-expanding initially.

 

[Powerfaker]

Moving on at 1AD with just a few more cities to settle in the ''old world'' and headed for space eventually

In most of my games the 1AD-1000 AD period feels a bit disappointing to me. You think after CS at 1AD you can get Edu before 500AD, but it always stretches to 700-800AD somehow. When you have a good economy, you simply end up teching more yourself. It's hard to pull of a really significant faster pace.
This time I entered 1AD being behind but with a steadily developing oversized empire. AND Mansa teched at my pace with me all the way to 1000AD at which point I jumped away. All in all after CS no sooner than 275AD I got Edu 720AD and Astro+Communism 1060 resp 1080AD (lib + using a bulb on SciM). A most satisfying result. So bigger land does make a difference after all.

Moving to the ''new world'' proved a massive undertaking. This had to be done high speed in order to get cities ready there in time before Tech allowed space parts building.
Then the first arrivals had big trouble with barbs. I almost quit there after a couple of sensitive losses. Gladly I didn't. The closer I got to the end phase the more clear it became that everything fell in place perfectly.

Couple statistics:
1370AD Assembly line (a round of nation wide factory/coal plant whipping)
1500AD Last space part city founded (missed taboratory but forest overkill), 1 Engine city 1460AD founded
1550AD Rocketry
1685AD Launch => 1735AD victory
Almost 50 cities founded in the new world, including on the northern islands, 75 workers deployed, (many tiles needed railroaded lumbermills + prechop workshops/wind/watermills, later pave all over with farms)

Edit: One wonder that I haven't built since my wonder fixation years, I hurried this game with a GE => Hagia Sophia, and proved quite helpful

 

[undead]

Settled on the corn for a fast expansion. Slow research. Missed religious victory several times. Expanded on the new world. Cultural Victory 1942AD.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

I won't be able to finish this one in time to submit - but a very fun and unusual game, thank you @NobleZarkon!

 

[SittinDown]

I enjoyed this one. Was going for space, but had to retire because I ran out of time.

Was running a game similar to @Powerfaker - I was a little behind that pace though. I got astro early, but I was way slower to spread to the other continent. I was running a ton of GS's with mids. Was enjoying the State Property workshops, and lots of civic swapping with the spiritual trait.

 

[zbgayumn]

Whew, just made it in under the wire! Both in terms of getting a victory and in terms of the submission deadline.

I started this one thinking I could do the Domination thing. I scouted the starting area and decided I could claim the most land by going East and NE with cities #2 and #3 and then culture bombing each one. That worked pretty well in and of itself, but later cities that I placed to try to flip rival cities largely failed. I put several G Artists into that effort, but got zero flips on the mainland until the very end.

I really prioritized Optics and Astro so that I could claim the entire New World. Although, due to so much expansion, I wasn't really ahead in tech at all. I had Astro to myself for maybe 20 turns, so that was kind of lucky. I set up a 6-galleon chain and tediously fast-tracked my settlers and troops across the ocean. I had a little more success with Artists in the New World. I flipped a couple barb cities and eventually several Mongol cities (some were actually Chinese after he spun off a colony). In the end I controlled 80+% of the New World, but that was only enough to hit 45% of land area.

I pumped culture with the slider at 70%, but it wasn't enough anymore. I started actually losing tiles to Ragnar as he got closer and closer to Cultural victory. I knew I was way too far away for Domination, so I went to my backup plan. Fortunately, Ragnar built the UN. If I had finished it, I think I would've lost. Anyway, I filled in all spaces in my territory to pump up my pop and started evaluating the numbers. It was pretty ugly, as I had to get Justinian and Charlie to vote for me, but they were only like +4 Pleased. Mansa was around +6, so I brought him along as well. They had all gone Free Religion, so I had to bribe them back into another civic. I also had to use espionage to get Justinian and Charlie into Judaism in the first place. Due to failed missions I got negative modifiers for spies causing trouble. I thought would never actually get all 3 of them.

I believe it was the 7th vote in 1944, and it was going to be the last because Ragnar was basically 5 turns away from culture victory. I got them all into Judaism and the modifiers finally ticked up enough to get the votes.

Always War and Always Peace are both tough. I don't really play with either option. The Always War game was a bigger disaster, but this one was a struggle too.