[BTS] BOTM 197 - Genghis Kahn, Emperor - First spoiler - 1AD

[Noble Zarkon]

Genghis Khan, mighty leader of the Mongols, how have you found the early going? Where did you settle? What did you do with the Great General and the Ship of the Line? Have you met Senggum yet?

 

[MarleysGh0st]

I took the contender save and settled in place. Senggum was met very early, with both a scout and a frigate coming into view in 3920 BC. I killed the scout, but since the southern coast seems to extend for a very long way, the frigate was out of reach. At 1 AD, I have five cities. One of those, between the rice and copper in the west, acts as a canal between the northern and southern oceans, and I've tried to do some scouting with my Ship of the Line, without letting it get too far away from my territory, in case trouble appears. After holding the GG in reserve for a while, I ultimately made him a Military Instructor in Karakorum.

I gleaned some early intelligence from the demographic screen. Apparently, a lot of Mongols deserted with Senggum, since his pop (and land, and production...) is far ahead of everyone else's. Also, from the VC screen in 3640 BC, I see there are only 4 rivals, 2 unknown (I've met Darius and Justinian). Noble Zarkon told us there were 6 AI in this game. Assuming he was counting Senggum as one of those AI, but the VC screen wasn't, that still seems to indicate that someone has come to an early end at the hands of that "minor" power.

I'll probably pursue my typical domination/conquest strategy, but this look like it'll be a difficult game.

Edit: Double-checking my notes, I actually have seven cities at 1 AD.

 

[WastinTime]

Very fun! I went Challenger save. Decided the general wasn't a big deal, but I had to have that Ship!

So since no general could scout west, I sent the Ship. I decided to keep going, and going.
I met a 3rd AI that I won't spoil. I wanted to have a chance at using the north water, so I rolled the dice at 87% and attacked the Frigate. Still alive. That allowed me to explore. A LOT. So no spoilers again.

Got some gold pillaging Clams over and over and over. (So obvously I found the Mongols). Killed some Triremes, then disaster.
At 7.1 health, with Combat 1, and 50% vs Frigate, and 10% defending, I lose my Ship just before 1 AD.
I suspect the minor civ has Astronomy and Chemistry (to build more Frigates...and galleons for that matter)
I'm not sure how I can survive in the water any more.
I've been planning to bulb Astronomy, but not sure there's a point to that.
Sad I didn't get to use the city bombard feature. I couldn't resist exploring. Shoulda stayed home and killed the neighbors. Can't tech trade anyway.

Everyone is teching & building fast. Great Wall turn 24! GreatLighthouse soon after. Darius got Pyramids. Nice. I might have to capture that. Oracle for Theology around T53 (not me of course! the Mongols are getting most of them) HangingG too.
Theology to the Mongols will make religious VC difficult. I need a quick-ish game. Still undecided.

Oh, almost forgot the fun part! With no gold/gems/silver, I decide this is a perfect game to research Monarchy (for the 1st time ever?) for Hereditary Rule.
We're given wine, so it's kinda the obvious thing to do,
I've always wanted to try this strategy where you put a stack of warriors in each city and grow and grow. (or whip a lot)
I'll need to get the 3 different seafood and 3 grains for max health. Might even build an aqueduct. And I'm looking at Harbors (Compass)

Maybe instead of Astronomy, I'll bulb Education and get Gunpowder to draft Muskets?
nationalism is not a small tech tho. Liberalism-> Nationalism? Hmm.

I think i have 8 cities. My capital is pop 12. Just got Currency, so I can do well over 100 bpt. Just not sure where to go from here.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Contender save. I have 10 cities, but relatively small, just got my 10th this turn.

It is a fun and challenging game - but I think "enhancing" SuperMongols went a bit too far ... Lol, we are definitely difficulty to please - Toku game too tough, too easy. But here, I do not see much chance to catch up to SuperMongols using "normal" ways, so thinking about somewhat loopholey way too win Since ppl can have very different knowledge of the map, I will not say what I saw in SuperMongols' cities - but it is kinda even worse than expected from demo ...

So far, I had most fun doing demo hacking This game is a unique opportunity, since we start knowing SuperMongols - and basically you do not need any EP to know all of their stats - it is just enough to use "rivals' best" in every category

So what have I learned? a lot of things. But the most entertaining is this: they seem to work hard to "update" their army! I mean, to make it era appropriate, I guess Like in lockdown game, from time to time, AI will disband advanced units given to them by the mapmaker. I assumed that this is just motivated by cost saving - but apparently not! I cannot be 100% sure, of course, but this game, looks like SuperMongols disbanded a couple of times strength 6 or 5 units - and built strength 3 unit immediately afterwards (or before)! So I am guessing they are "upgrading" keshiks to archers? Hoping they will also "upgrade" their frigates to triremes one day

Teching is slow on this map, at least in my case, when I decided to expand rather fast. I am tempted to get alpha soon just to see insane progress of SuperMongols. They started with two huge cities, apparently with also fully improved worked tiles (based on demographics). I thought they settled city #3 relatively soon - but then noticed that Moscow (#3) was also settled 4000 BC. So @MarleysGh0st is right - SuperMongols killed one of their neighbors very early, it was Russia. We did not even get to meet them

 

[WastinTime]

Since the cat's out of the bag,
I found all 3 of their cities. I didn't realize one was conquered, but that makes sense given its location.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Since the cat's out of the bag,
I found all 3 of their cities. I didn't realize one was conquered, but that makes sense given its location.

I also did not realized it immediately, even when I saw it was called "Moscow" I thought that minor civ run out of in character names, lol But in my game, by 1AD Moscow makes it into top cities and then I realized it was not settled.

BTW, does anybody know if minor civ counts for "known civ" bonus while teching?

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Challenger save. ........
It is a fun and challenging game - but I think "enhancing" SuperMongols went a bit too far

This game is designed to be very tough at Emperor level, if you choose to handicap yourself and play at Deity on your own head be it . Deity AI didn't get any extra units / techs compared to Emperor - imagine if I had given them additional lol.

 

[MarleysGh0st]

This game is designed to be very tough at Emperor level, if you choose to handicap yourself and play at Deity on your own head be it . Deity AI didn't get any extra units / techs compared to Emperor - imagine if I had given them additional lol.

That's the way I see it. Those of you who think anything less than Deity is too easy: the mapmaker can see to it that it's not!

 

[Fine_Distinction]

That's the way I see it. Those of you who think anything less than Deity is too easy: the mapmaker can see to it that it's not!

Lol, i am sorry, i picked The regular (contender) Save, just confused The names. But Senggum seems worse that a deity AI to me

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Lol, i am sorry, i picked The regular (contender) Save

Ah ok lol, well in that case be careful what you wish for

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Ah ok lol, well in that case be careful what you wish for

Actually, it is not that bad once you get to 1 AD. But in the first couple turns, after seeing their demos, working like >40 food in the couple first turns, seeing their scout at my border turn 4 and frigate turn 5 I seriously considered quitting - but stayed out of curiosity Very interesting scenario, for sure!

 

[Mitchum]

Interesting game so far. I saw a Senggum scout and frigate on T2. It made me nervous so I killed the scout and then started to send my ship of the line west which is the direction the frigate went.

On T4 I noticed a message that the Russian civ was destroyed so knew that Senggum had taken them out. I assumed it was a size 1 city that was razed but it must have been pre-settled with 2+ pop to avoid auto razing. Moscow is quite the city at 1 AD already.

My ship of the line finally caught Senggum's frigate after going west and then back east and I killed it on T17. About 30ish turns later in 2080 BC, my ship of the line ran into a stack of 2 frigates. Game over. As a result, I still don't have much knowledge of the map.

On T28, I stole a worker from Darius. This turned out to be a mistake that I've only just now gotten under control. Darius started spamming me with Immortals and then Horse Archers that greatly slowed my progress as I whipped chariots and later Keshiks (yes, I had to research Archer and HBR to get out of the mess).

I got about half-way done with the GLH when Senggum built it. He was snapping up wonders left and right but I still figured I had a shot at it. The gold was nice but I really wanted that wonder on this map.

This happy cap is killing me. I will have Currency in 2T and then I plan to research Monarchy for the wine and Heredity Rule.

At 1AD I have 6 cities, 18 pops, 6 chariots, 5 keshiks, 6 granaries, 6 LH, 6 libraries and 2 barracks.

I was hoping for a quick game but this one is looking like it will take quite a bit of work to finish. I'm not sure I'll have the time to finish it.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

I assumed it was a size 1 city that was razed but it must have been pre-settled with 2+ pop to avoid auto razing.

This game is "no city razing". I do not think it was size 2 already on T4, it was for sure size 1 when Senggum got it (clear from demo). Good job on noticing the message Russia got destroyed, I missed it.

My ship of the line finally caught Senggum's frigate after going west and then back east and I killed it on T17. About 30ish turns later in 2080 BC, my ship of the line ran into a stack of 2 frigates. Game over. As a result, I still don't have much knowledge of the map.

I also got attacked by 2 frigates later, was a bit scary, but survived it easily, health only down to ~5.6. I decided not to attack the first frigate, not only due to the chance of losing SoL, but also hoping the frigate may harass my neighbors I lost SoL anyway relatively early, just due to becoming over-confident and killing Senggum's navy out of boredom

 

[WastinTime]

I got about half-way done with the GLH when Senggum built it

Yeah, imagine how fast wonders are going on Deity. Here's a tip:
If Senggum has Astronomy like we suspect then, Colossus is obsolete (for him).
And I'm sure you have copper.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Yeah, imagine how fast wonders are going on Deity. Here's a tip:
If Senggum has Astronomy like we suspect then, Colossus is obsolete (for him).
And I'm sure you have copper.

I saw his galleon early on, same for extra frigates, I assumed they were given, not built (his starting soldier score is insane).

Another question is - does AI think like that (Colossus obsolete = not building it)? In Always peace game, they seem to build units as usual

 

[Mitchum]

Once it's obsolete, you can't build a wonder so it's not even an option.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Once it's obsolete, you can't build a wonder so it's not even an option.

I think @WastinTime meant that if Colossus is obsolete to Senggum that will make it easier to build by us (Senggum not competing)

 

[Mitchum]

I think @WastinTime meant that if Colossus is obsolete to Senggum that will make it easier to build by us (Senggum not competing)

Yes, I understood what WT was saying.

Another question is - does AI think like that (Colossus obsolete = not building it)?

I was confused by this comment which sounded like you were implying that Senggum might still build the Colossus even though it is obsolete. I guess I misread your comment.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Doubt I’ll finish this game because the only way I see to win is espy culture. I was tempted in case no one else won but...been there, done that.

I also immediately saw the frigate but stupidly missed that the sol had +50%. So I decided to make it a warlord and gave it all first-strike drill promos. My warrior was exploring west (Mitch — that’s west) so I sent the sol east. She made it all the way to Moscow and beyond but at a certain point I made a calculated decision to retrace my steps. Returned home having met 0 frigates or galleons.

In hindsight, I made the right choice on the sol warlord. He has a chance to survive a long time.

After settling the copper chokepoint, I again saw the frigate, damaged, so I chased it down. Then I kept my sol close to home so I could settle and protect the northern coast with seafood. So far I still haven’t seen more enemy navy.

My initial strategy was to steal techs with espionage. I wanted GW for the GSpy points. After starting the game, I wanted GLH, teching appropriately and settling near the stone, etc. Of course those pipe dreams soon went up in smoke. Then I teched CoL and whipped a ch in my capitsl and starting working a spy specialist, still determined to steal techs.

Now, at 0BC, it’s clear that archenemy is running away with the game. Moscow alone has enough gold available to cost like 5000 eps. He’s got about 20 or 399 wonders already. He’ll conquer the world whenever he gets around to it.

The only question is, will I and Darius last long enough for me to create 2-3 GAs, gather 50,000 or whatever eps and build a couple hundred spies. When I was younger, I’d try. Now, no thank you.

Incidentally, the AP went to another AI. Theoretically I could capture it and win a quick AP.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Yes, I understood what WT was saying.


I was confused by this comment which sounded like you were implying that Senggum might still build the Colossus even though it is obsolete. I guess I misread your comment.

Ah, OK, turns out it was me who misunderstood. I did not realized he will not be able to build it anymore once he has astro. But anyway, not a sure way to know if he has astro , but food for thoughts, great tip!